[AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

[Alavaria]

Hey, you! Yes you... if you haven't voted on the latest part then look for the latest entry and scroll to the bottom - it'll tell you what strategic options are up for voting. Reader participation.

Currently, voting is at the end of Part 9. There are three different "armies" to prioritize.

Links to all parts below:

• Part 1
• Part 2
• Part 3
• Part 4
• Part 5
• Part 6
• Part 7
• Part 8
• Part 9

[Athenogoras]

This is a very good story and very good presented. Great job. PM you later

[DaVinci]

Very unique AAR style - superbe! Should be latest added to the sticky list with the next AAR post
P.S. You actually show the might of knights, just chivalry Though take care vs. heavier opponents who might be able to reduce the knights significantly (but you know this already, i guess).

Edit: Added to the sticky list.

[Alavaria]

Alright, with the new Chivalry 1.0, I finally decided to try my hand at this thing. This ARR will have three "sections" or components. First is some kind of storytelling thing. Second are my comments on what I'm doing, and especially what tricks I'm using (if I think of it). Third is some kind of pseudo-interactive part. Probably voting. Which is via PM.

So, I'm playing Bohemia, on Hard (Knight) campaign difficulty, and Very Hard (High Noble Knight) battle difficulty. You'll get to see what happens when the AI gets an attack bonus of +7 and most infantry have 1-2 attack.
Apparently on VH campaign, the AI does not get a money bonus (10000 per turn on H).

Anyway, that's all the setup. Let's begin. The first section is probably boring. I tried to ... well, you'll see
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For as long as anyone could remember, Bohemia had been allies of the Eastern Franks. Our other friends, the Romans, were far from us in distance and mind.

Closer, and of more concern to our people were the neighboring Poles and Hungarians.

In order to prevent outbreaks of hostility with our fellow nations, a Bohemian diplomat was sent to speak to the Hungarians.

In the meantime, our beloved Duke made an official visit to Bohemia's northern borders, an embarrassingly short ride for him and his knights. As rumored, brigands and thieves lurked just past the arm of Bohemian law. Or so they thought.

: Charge!
: Milord, there are too many of them, should you not first call up the army?
: Nonsense. Rebellious scum will never stand against the assault of nobility.
: But there are too many ...
: More fuel for the flame of glory. CHARGE!

The pursuit went late into evening, despite the Duke's attempts to call back his over-loyal horsemen. Though he wished to press on to the local bandit stronghold, several knights had been wounded, and a few even killed, and the need for reinforcements meant his intention was delayed. Only after the winter snows had given way to green growth did his force reach the wooden walls of Budziszyn.

The Bohemian "army" - a group of eager, but inexperienced and unsteady militia. The knights set them to build a ram, and set themselves to watch the gates.

In the mean time, the emissary, having concluded talks with the Hungarians, continued his diplomatic trip into Poland.

As snow began to fall from the sky, the Duke, tiring of the wait, called the men together.

: There are only dead men within those walls. Let us go now and take our inheritance.
: We've hardly even set up camp. Should we not rather let their supplies run low first?
: Why ... the peasants are already assaulting the walls!
: What? They cannot be allowed the honor of first entering battle!

It was a mad rush for the gates. The militia, already on the ram, made it through first, and were promptly cut down by the rebel scum.

Spoiler for Battle for Budziszyn (Results): 

Those of the rebels who immediately surrendered to the authority and control of Bohemia were allowed to live. However, half of them were "relocated", lest they change their minds.


It seemed, however, that some of those left behind were not well pleased with their good fortune and the Duke's grace.

: It is the peasants, Lord.
: What peasants?

The duke looked around, seeing only an influx of merchants and outflux of new slaves.

: The priests say that the peasants worship at many "holy" places in the woods beyond the walls.
: Ah. Pagans ... very well then, let us set up holy places, for them to worship.
: None of the townsfolk will stand for such blasphemy!
: And tell the church that their request is granted.
: What request?
: They courteously asked for my permission to host a pair of inquisitors.
: ... As you desire.



Not at all interested in the administration of Bohemia's new-gained territory, the Duke set off, again northward. Stopping to make camp in the deepening winter, one day the Duke and his brave soldiers were assaulted by a force of "freedom fighters" aiming to wrest control of their lost settlement. They were driven off in a manner befitting vagrants of their station - at the point of a lance.

Spoiler for Attack of the Freedom Fighters (Results): 

As the Duke continued his journey further into rebel land, the population of Budziszyn, disgruntled that the peasants around them were allowed to continue worshiping all manner of idols, decided to take matters into their own hands, rising up in an attempt to purge all non-conformists from Bohemian soil. They failed.

Spoiler for Budziszyn Riots: 

Unpeturbed by the news a messenger brought of the riots, the Duke merely proceeded to siege the town of Mechlenburg. Several days later, another message came, this time with information that the riots had ended abruptly. The siege continued as the militia rushed to build another ram with all haste. As soon as it was ready, the assault began. Overeager yet again, some of the militia died of their folly.

Spoiler for Mecklenburg Massacre (not really-Results): 

All the slaves sent back were promptly tasked to begin construction, and later work, in the capital's precious metal mines.

With the town taken, and the warmth of spring soon leading into the heat of summer, the force that had just taken Mechlenburg continued, ever north, to lay siege to Slevig.

Spoiler for Turned Back at Slesvig: 

For once, the Duke's belligerence stepped aside for common sense. He returned to Mechlenburn only to find the population in an uproar over some minor matter. The issue was settled with a few persuasive words and show of force.
: We could have taken them!

He probably could've, too.


In other debates, an alliance was concluded with the Danes. They were so far north that they had cities beyond the sea!



With the northern borders relatively secure, the Duke looked eastward now, to another rebel town that was supplied by a well-running river. However, the Eastern Franks sent two scouting forces into Bohemia's sovereign territory. The knights were called back to the capital immediately. Tensions were high until the Franks turned and left


Additionally, two generous offers of alliance were turned down. Though the offending parties were far from us, it was nevertheless an insult that would not be forgotten.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
END OF PART ONE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the capital, I had some time before started construction on an inn. Inns on Bohemian soil are a very important priority for me. Why? Dogheads! Good defense, good morale and armor piercing. And a decent shield. It's rather funny to see what 5 or so units of these guys can do, even against heavy horse (or especially).

Spoiler for Dogheads!: 

I forgot my capital was a Tier 3 settlement. I was planning to get a toll road up, but started instead on -> That's right. Experience 1 Dogheads.

Spoiler for Better Dogheads: 

Voting for part 1 is over!

[Alavaria]

Hey everyone, Alavaria here again. Interesting voting, I got the following:
1 for attacking the Poland town immediately
1 for attacking the Polish capital later
1 for attacking Poland, in general later.

It looks like you really have it in for Poland. So I guess we'll just be

: Why Poland?
: Can you see that town over there?


: Across the river?
: There's some military buildup going on there. It's suspicious.


: ... well, send him in, then. We'll wait and see.
: Who?
: Here I am, Lord. What do you require of me?
: There's questionable activity over in that town, possibly of a military nature. Go speak with the Polish and report back to me.
: By your will.



: Good Polish, may I have a word with you?
: And what may Bohemia be doing here on this fine day, hmm?
: We wish up-to-date cartographers' work.
: Any what do you need maps of Poland for?
: ... Is Poland hiding something? What is a trifle like a map?
: I don't trust you ...
: It's just a map.
: NO!
: Hand it over!
: I said no, and I'll say it again. NO!
: Very well then. As you wish.

: Should we be afraid? Come on then, little one.
: I have nothing further to say. My Lord will deal with you.

: Will he now?
: Laugh all you want ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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: To think, our first assignment would be foreign.




: My apologies. They would not listen to reason.
: Clearly they thought Bohemian minds as sharp as a club. But it is of no import.
: First foot reporting for duty!
: Finally! Now can we get along with it?
: Yes, we can -
: Enemies! From the west!

Spoiler for Battle outside Wroclaw - Part 1: 

: YES! I take first charge!
: Damn it, I wish you'd think these things through a little more throughly.
: We should just take position here at the camp and let them come to us instead of the other way around.
: I suppose there's no need to tire the horses just to kill peasants a little quicker ...
: You heard the Duke. Get the men in order!
: Yes sir! ...




: Oh, and you there, foot.
: Orders?
: Just .. stand there. We knights will finish them in no time at all.
: ... but-
: Silence, soldier. We have the right to open battle.
: Yessir. (We got off light)



: I see no horse among them.
: Damn, it really is only a group of peasants.
: Order the foot back. They'll be out of this one.
: You heard him. Move!
: Moving as ordered!



: Lances down, shields up ...
: There they are! Lances, down!
: CHARGE!








: They already broke though the line! What's left for us to charge?
: Who cares? Just run them down then!




: Kill those ones too!
: Attack, kill those axemen!
: Charge those mercenaries!

Caught between axe, hoof and lance, the Polish hired axes had no where to go but down.





: Reform!
: Concentrate on their leader. We should rest the mounts before the enemy reinforcements arrive.
: Indeed. We will want to be at our best to defeat the Polish noble.
: Reformed and awaiting orders!

Spoiler for Battle outside Wroclaw - Part 2: 

...


: Here he is.
: A little closer ...

: Lances - down.
: CHARGE!
: Into glorious battle!








: Mine! That noble is mine!
: You crazy bastard!




: A hack! And a slash!
: Noooo-----

*crunch*





: ...
: He deserved worse than he got.
: Even if he was only a two-bit noble ... it's just wrong.
: At least make sure he's dead first.




1: He's dead.
2: Yes, he's definitely dead.
: I'll take his banner then.

: There aren't any signs of military buildup.
: This was probably just a staging ground. If they were training a serious force, it would be at the capital.
: The Polish capital ...
: Anyway, let's get away from here. There's nothing else to do.
: Actually, what should I do with all these - ? The town just surrendered.
: Do whatever you did with the last town.



Several days later ....
: 'My dear brother, please put these new "helpers" to good use.' It ends there.
: Hmm...
Several more days later ....
: 'Thank you for your kind gift. The "helpers" are working on some metal mines. However, I have given thought to building a castle to secure this town.



: ... I need more workers to get that done.
: Are you just going to ask the Duke for more slaves?
: Yes, something wrong?
: No, I'm just wondering how many thousands he'll send you.
: Why's that?


: What do you mean we can't just attack their capital?
: There's surely a whole army in there, and ...
: It's the Eastern Franks again.



: So that's why were attacking a group of peasants instead of a city full of nobles?
: We have to defend Bohemia.
: So yes then. Well, let's be about our glorious work.
: Form up!

: Back to the capital it is then. But what about the slaves he needed?
: We can always get slaves somewhere. What about some Frankish ones?
: Should we really take them on? The Franks cover an empire ...
: You're lucid for once!
: What? Anyway, we should hurry to the defense.

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--------------------------END OF PART TWO -------------------------
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Voting for part 2 is over!

[Alavaria]

: Those Franks ran off again.
: Perhaps, like Polish, they underestimate how seriously we take national security.
: Even more perhaps, we should build up out force defending the capital. To show Bohemia will not be intimidated by their like.

: Should've done that some time ago. Oh, and I call first charge. On the Franks.
: Anyway, back to Poland. There's a capital we should be taking.
: That might be a bit more of a challenge than their town.
: Did you find something?

: More of what we didn't find.
: Now that I think of it, you're a pretty bad spy, huh?
: I talk not sneak. Spying is strictly "on the side".
: Well, clearly we will have to muster a proper force. While it forms in the capital, let's go raiding. There's a few Polish towns on the outskirts of their territory that we should cut off from the capital.

: Like this one.
: Are we setting up camp near the river?
: We'll try to draw them, or the rest of the Polish army, out. Yes.
: Time to make camp-
: Pitching the tents!

: It's not working. Send the rams forward!

: I heard that the Polish's Grand Leader is within those walls.
: He must have many men with him.

: Peasants with spears, peasants with bows ... Not enough knights for all of us.
: Haha, that's why knights have armor - so peasants can't kill us before we kill them. Forward!
: But we don't have armor-

: Cloth doesn't count!

: Do you think that'll be enough workers?
: He only needed a hundred or so. But in any case, construction accidents do occur..


: My lord, the Poles are already beginning to form resistance movements within the city! We should leave for now and ...

: *waves over someone*
: How may I serve?
: What do you do?
: I push battering rams, sir.
: I mean when you're not on campaign.
: The Polish offensive was my first assignment, sir.
: *sigh* You know what's with the Doghead men, right?

: They don't pay taxes!
: It's completely legal! We're tax-free entities!
: No, I meant what they *DO*
: Oh, right. We usually guard borders, not expand them. But expanding works too.
: Really? How so?
: Loot's tax free too.
: Anyway, they can function as a police force.
: Oh, I see. You need -
: Do whatever it takes, just keep these peasants down. Put them there - down, I mean - if you must.

: ... Do we get something besides axes?
: No. But feel free to use the axes if you have to.
: And when is "have to?"
: Whenver you feel like it.
: ... By your will. Men!
: Commencing policing duties!
: Did that fix the problem?
: Yes, either the problem is fixed, or it will be "fixed".
: Let's keep moving.
: But we just took the town..?
: When the enemy is off-balance, it's important to strike!

: Another siege?
: A cool winter's day is the perfect time to build battering rams.
: Why is that?
: You don't have to de-leaf the timber before building with it.
: I hadn't thought of that.
: Campaigning will teach you many things. How are preparations going?
: They're done.
: Come again?

: How can you keep on moving when it's such a nice peaceful summer day?
: It's the thought of glory on the battlefield. Onward Bohemia!

: Send this lot to the capital. I hear they need even more slaves for the mines.

: We're not making any friends by doing this.
: Don't worry. I learn fast. Men!
: Yes, Lord?
: Take care of this place until we return. Or .. just do whatever, but make sure it keeps flying the Bohemian flag.
: Yessir, on it sir!

: This is sure to cause problems down the road. They won't stand for it..
: News! News from the south!
: It must be as I feared, an army -

: WHAT?!
: The flags on the Polish capital have been removed! A new nation, calling themselves the "Malopolanie" have taken control of the walls by popular support.
: It can't be.
: Poland is no longer.
: I will nevertheless strive to take the last Polish city for the advancement of Bohemia. Malopolanie be damned. No, wait.
: Is something wrong?
: You spoke with them?
: Of course - I was there, wasn't I?
: Did they surrender?
: Of course not - I would have mentioned it first thing.
: Let's do this and return home.

: If there's one thing I know, it's that "populist uprising" means peasant armies.

: Regardless, I will take the walls, slaughter of peasants or not.
: Sir, but we *are* also peasants.
: You are peasants of Bohemia! Now push that ram!

: Send them to whoever asks for them.
: Escorting prisoners, sir!

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SEVERAL DAYS LATER
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: Damn peasants! I don't care if you call yourselves Poland, Malopolanie, Nu Poland, Poland Grande or whatever. Submit or you will be done away with!

: Dire news from Bohemia!
: I have more than enough peasantry ruining my day. What is it?!
: Peasants, my lord.
: Damn --- where?
: Budziszyn.

: Where's that?
: A small town of less than 2000 a while ago, and now over 6000.
: You've got too be kidding me. They don't even have a proper castle?

: Just ... send in the military. Even if it is Bohemian land. Especially if it is! No tolerance!

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A WEEK LATER
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: It isn't enough to give the men a free hand, they need hands to be freed first!
: Where did our brother go? He could fix things with a few words...
: This report is from him. The other governor was sent .. "on campaign".

: Ah, everything will be fixed then.
: I suppose "on campaign" means we'll have someone join us here. But Poland has been subjugated, there isn't much else to do.
: There have been incidents with other nations before ...
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Voting for Part 3 is over!

[Athenogoras]

Bonus Points -> Why? PM votes, but post explanations that are long-ish, so others can see

Not sure what you mean here. I PM:d you my vote but I should explain reasons why here?

OK

For expansion I voted rebel east of Mecklenburg and then to continue to rebel city north of Poznan(I think there is a city there at least). This will leave you a very good economic base with the balticsea-trade and with possibilities to expand in the baltic or into scandinavia in the future.

As for buildings I recommend you to build the law enforcement building where this is possible. Varlets are superior infantry and you need spies to stop infiltration by enemy spies. You also need a city to produce a cheap garrisonunit since you have problems with public order.

[Alavaria]

Uh, yeah. "Bonus points" and "hard mode" is some kind of dumb "internet thing" oops. But it would mean the vote counts for more as opposed to someone voting for a silly option with no reasoning.

You also need a city to produce a cheap garrison unit since you have problems with public order.

Two comments:
1) The dogheads are 64 for 190, levy peasants are 74 for 200. I don't think there are any units better than the peasants ...
EDIT: I was wrong. Slavic warbands have 80 men for 175.
EDIT 2: export_descr_buildings seems to suggest they are not recruitable anywhere by bohemia, though export_descr_unit gives Bohemia owenership of the unit.

Searching for "Slavic Warband"
recruit "slavic warband" 0 requires factions { slave, } and hidden_resource slav [Occurs 5 times]
recruit "slavic warband" 0 requires factions { carthage, } and hidden_resource slav [Occurs 2 times]
recruit "slavic warband merc" 0 requires factions { egypt, numidia, armenia, } and hidden_resource slav

type slavic warband
dictionary slavic_warband
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Light_1
soldier slavic_warband, 40, 0, 0.5
mount_effect horse -2, camel -2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest,hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.5, 2.2, 1.5, 2.2, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 0, javelin, 38, 2, thrown, other, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.5
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 1, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,0.4
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 5, 4, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 1, 1, 2, 0
stat_mental 6, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 60
stat_fire_delay -60000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 350, 175, 90, 55, 340
ownership slave, carthage, armenia, numidia, romans_senate

Some insight into why Bohemia has ownership of a unit it can't recruit anywhere is interesting. I am not even sure if it spawns in the event of a revolt (to Bohemia) since it isn't trainable anywhere anyway.

2) Unrest is a major contributor to the public order problem.Not sure if spies can help with that. The AI hasn't started using spies, yet, but it probably will soon enough

[Athenogoras]

The dogheads are 64 for 190

Oops. Forgot about those. Doghead are probably the best option as garrison considering their number and strength.

Not sure if spies can help with that

They dont. But AI will send spies and might as well prepare for it. Hopefully your unrest will dissapear with time.

[Alavaria]

Another thing is, of course, that the garrison units can be used to reinforce the army and stuff. It is possible that they prevent the AI from attacking (which it does if the garrison is peasantry).

Now if those slavic warbands can be got in *some* place, they'd make both good garrisons and front line charge absorbers.

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

i never saw such a AAR-writing style....THIS IS WONDERFUL!

[Alavaria]

Then vote for something, lol. It takes a bit of participation to make whacky stuff happen. Like elite ex-convicts.

[DaVinci]

My developer reflection so far as every AAR is also a kind of an indicator:

- Actually the most heavy blitzwar i saw ever with the Bohemians. I wasn't ever able to do that with the Bohemians. Must be a matter of the difficulty setting and the camp "Crusader Epoche" start situation in this area.
- When i as Bohemia for example besieged the northern Sorbic neighborhood "Bidzyzin", i instantly was attacked by huge independent stacks (in the camp "Rise of the Knighthood" though), and lost latest the second battle, and my Family member(s) died heroicly.
- It is surely an AI exploit to go on war with 2-3 Family members (leader and heir, and more), but yes, this is the way to make a successful blitzkrieg in the early stages of a campaign - with luck and the right (easy) set difficulty, this what you show above is obviously possible. Questionable if this is a good idea in the long term of the ongoing campaign, because i assume you'll loose a few settlements soon. I'm curious how that will play out now in the next 10-15 years, but surely you have a good base with the heavy exp family members in this early stage.

[Alavaria]

Actually the most heavy blitzwar i saw ever with the Bohemians. I wasn't ever able to do that with the Bohemians. Must be a matter of the difficulty setting and the camp "Crusader Epoche" start situation in this area.

It's the same starting two regions that Bohemia has in the Rise of Knighthood campaign, if that's what you meant.

It's Hard campaign (VH has the AI losing it's 10000 gold bonus) and VH battle difficulty. This will become a little more obvious when the enemy does *not* all rout the moment a knight touches them. Still, at times I lose quite a lot of knights, but I don't worry as they retrain automatically - game mechanics at work there.

And just the basics of it suddenly make things less surprising. It's 30 knights from the Duke, and another 20 from the heir. That's 50 knights with 2 HP. Compare with about 600 random light infantry/light cavalry. One knight has to kill 12. Given that the enemy routs so easy with *no* general, most of the kills are router chasing. Also, as long as you defeat the rebel stack, it appears that all of the rest simply disappear.(ie: if you kill only 300, the other 300 just vanish or something).

When i as Bohemia for example besieged the northern Sorbic neighborhood "Bidzyzin", i instantly was attacked by huge independent stacks (in the camp "Rise of the Knighthood" though), and lost latest the second battle, and my Family member(s) died heroicly.

Ah, that's the problem. When you're sieging, there's a family member inside, with usually 20 bodyguards. I made sure to attack stacks OUTSIDE, where it was just my knights vs their units. The enemy bodyguards are pretty powerful, that's why if a stack catches you mid-siege, you should retreat and let them chase you, rather than fight enemy knights.

Similarly, if you remember the battle against that polish FM, the trick is to try and isolate them and swarm. That time it was 50 vs his 20, and his were tired. In other cases, it's usually more a even match (knight based) but with armor piercing infantry all around. (even fights = loss because of AI attack bonus).

General rules I follow:
A) Infantry, unsupported, will get slaughtered by AI knights.
B) Knights, unsupported, will get slaughtered by AI infantry.
C) Everything I have, unsupported, will get slaughtered by AI things (that are not routing).
D) Routing troops should be allowed to run if there are other enemy troops still fighting.
E) If they don't rout, it needs a knight charge.
Oh, and killing the enemy general isn't easy, because they are also knights *and* have 2 hp. Using your own knights ties them up when they should be routing enemy infantry/heavy horse. I try to get the AI general to chase one of my horse into infantry (light or heavy doesn't matter, but they should have AP), let them tire and weaken a bit, then come back later with the knights and kill them.

I'm curious how that will play out now in the next 10-15 years, but surely you have a good base with the heavy exp family members in this early stage.

No. Because of the crusader campaign later start, the faction leader is 57, and the heir is close behind. They'll die every soon, and their silver chevroned knights will evaporate. All the other knights are new, and don't have (1) command and (2) unit experience. Also, the AI's generals will not probably have 3-ish command stars (earlier Poland had probably no stars, and I bashed them too quickly)

But this time, I'm aware that it'll happen, hence why I'm looking for something heavy-ish that will be needed to fill that vacuum.

Several things that I have noted, and will be watching out for this time.
1) When you expand, the AI will tend to send more stacks after you, and more factions will get at war with you. It's at first possible to cope by splitting and having the Faction Leader +FMs on one army and the Heir+FMs on another. But it won't work, and heavy cavalry components of the army will suffer if it keeps happening. Generally, this is a problem if the AI sends it's own family members at you. (or if you fight an enemy FL/Heir.)
2) It's hard for the player to make a lot of heavy troops. Conversely, it's mega-easy for the AI to have 7 units of armored infantry, 3 of light foot, 5 light horse, 4 heavy horse and a family member.
3) Given that most later (heavier) troops have a good deal of armor, armor piercing is really good. Like vs a knight with 12 armor, the doghead (starting attack -> 1) suddenly gains +6 attack. Given how much cheaper light foot w/ AP is, you'll see me use a lot of them. Sure, 24 foot knights will kick ass - that's why you swarm them with 128 axemen. Light infantry usually I will try to rout near the start of a battle. Light/Heavy cav get engaged by the knights (of course, knights can only kill so many peasants before they get bored).

- It is surely an AI exploit to go on war with 2-3 Family members (leader and heir, and more)

Yep, so far as the AI is mostly happy to have its FMs sit in base. In an earlier campaign as Aragorn, Leon Castille sent 3 FMs in a single stack at me (60-ish knights) along with other knights, and that was a real slaughterfest. Of my armor piercing legions, anyway. Did Chiv change something there? I don't recall the AI ever having more than one general at a time before.

[DaVinci]

It's the same starting two regions that Bohemia has in the Rise of Knighthood campaign, if that's what you meant.

It's Hard campaign (VH has the AI losing it's 10000 gold bonus) and VH battle difficulty. This will become a little more obvious when the enemy does *not* all rout the moment a knight touches them.

This is played on H/VH, really?

However, i'm amazed how you did this all

The Rise of the Knighthood campaign has a harder start for Bohemia for sure (i'm the one who created all start situations in this mod since version post 0.34). I over the time increased the possibility to suvive, for Bohemia, as they (had) have as AI a very hard situation, and often were killed pretty soon. Still, their start situation is compared to others pretty hard, and it is different in the Rise of the Knighthood, also if the starting leaders are younger. Ie. the Saxon region in your western neighborhood is independent in Rise of the Knighthood, and have quite strong armies who are eager to attack the human player in the field (this is what happened to me, and they killed my family member(s), version 0.99.x.
If you don't believe this, then try the same some day in future, on H/H, with the Rise of the Knighthood. If you can achieve the same result as in the above AAR, then you for me the "Master of Bohemia"
Doesn't matter anyway, hopefully you have fun with this ARR creation, that's the mainpoint ... but of course we will react on such an outcome report ...lol.

Edit: I'll look if i make Slavic Warriors accessable for Bohemia.

[Alavaria]

This is played on H/VH, really?

It says so on the very first post, with a picture, believe it or not:

However, i'm amazed how you did this all

It's the knights. They're positively overpowered, and having 50 of them, with 2 hp, at the very start ...

The Rise of the Knighthood campaign has a harder start for Bohemia for sure (i'm the one who created all start situations in this mod since version post 0.34). I over the time increased the possibility to suvive, for Bohemia, as they (had) have as AI a very hard situation, and often were killed pretty soon.

Two versions ago, I did Bohemia and got further, taking that HRE town on my north-west side, as well as the rebel town and Danish town on the mainland. The Danes and HRE were quite unable to do anything after they were reduced to 2 and 4 towns respectively. VH campaign difficulty meant no money bonus for them and they had trouble making any sort of army except peasant/levy ones. Which ...

In fact, I had trouble getting up that silver&gold mine in the capital this campaign, but had a much easier time of it in the earlier RotH one. Odd.

Still, their start situation is compared to others pretty hard, and it is different in the Rise of the Knighthood, also if the starting leaders are younger. Ie. the Saxon region in your western neighborhood is independent in Rise of the Knighthood, and have quite strong armies who are eager to attack the human player in the field (this is what happened to me, and they killed my family member(s), version 0.99.x.

Depending on what you did, this is not wholly surprising, as the HRE start with a lot of towns. I believe that I blitzed them first, and THEN poland. I took a few towns from the HRE (closest to me) and did some fort-work over the rivers. With Doghead garrisons and one family member sitting near the border, they didn't do a thing.

As for those independent troops that you mentioned, I remember them. They didn't protect the town, which I sieged and took, then the stack stood on a watchtower, and I left them there until about 20(?) years later. They didn't do very much other than stand around and look at the tier 3/4 city (which did have a goodish lot of 5 doghead units, for public order)

If you don't believe this, then try the same some day in future, on H/H, with the Rise of the Knighthood. If you can achieve the same result as in the above AAR, then you for me the "Master of Bohemia"

I'll be glad to try it on H-campaign VH-difficulty, but I've also learned some things since then. I'll consider it a challenge for later (having two campaigns with the same faction - it'll be tricky. I do believe, however, that having younger (ie: not going to die) faction members means I can rely on them longer, ie: longer economic buildup, and a stronger base with which to train roadroller doghead stacks. But we'll see. And Bohemia has a Duke, so that's fine too

Doesn't matter anyway, hopefully you have fun with this ARR creation, that's the mainpoint ... but of course we will react on such an outcome report ...lol.

It's intended. I will try to show just how far you can stretch the AI. (turns out, it isn't too far on Chiv, as once you touch several nations at once, it gets mad out there, but we'll see).

Edit: I'll look if i make Slavic Warriors accessable for Bohemia.

They'd make an excellent garrison, charge absorber troop, like I said. Actually, Aragorn has those Apollite or something, not as good a troop, but better in terms of upkeep. Then again, it seems like the way I keep order is by Martial Law (which will hurt later on)

EDIT:I have saves made at the end of every single turn (ie: before hitting the End Turn button. If anyone wants to see the current (or earlier, for that matter) save to get more info than the few screenshots shown here, you'll just have to tell me where to upload...

[jimkatalanos]

Moved to RTW AARs.

(has been moved back /DV)

[DaVinci]

It's the knights. They're positively overpowered, and having 50 of them, with 2 hp, at the very start ...

Edu balancing is still in the making btw..


Generally:

ChivTW is not made, or better not planned to make up a blitzkrieg game.
But as we see, it is very possible to make such blitzkrieg goals - i personally never play in such a manner, because i don't like it to exploit the AI in that high degree.

As for this, there are eventually two edu files in future (as alternative extraction), one with 2hp units and one without. The current 2hp units will stay superior, but surely not that much of an option for the AI exploit/blitzing. Alternative to this, i'll think about to create more working traits that would change the balance between human player and the AI, with the goal to decrease the human player blitzing capabilities.

The 2hp has mainly the purpose to reflect the strength of knights on a warhorse, as they were just the "tanks" in the middleage, and indeed were able to rout such peasant armies you have shown above as of yet. The other reason is that an AI family member can survive longer in the battle mode.

But, and that's the point, it is not realistic that a handful of knights would subjugate whole regions with its capital cities, and this thing within a very few years* - so here is the point where i think: we need to change the 2hp units to another balance for the default mod. (* comment: although the Normans did something like that in South-Italy in the early 1000 AD years and were the founder of the later Siculo-Norman empire, and indeed there were other occasions where a rather handful of heavy skilled warriors were able to subjugate provinces, but just not within 5 or less years, in that degree that is possible in our game).

And the ones who don't make too much AI exploit gameplay and blitzing can still use 2hp "hero" knights, if they intend to play rather historically, what i personally try to do, always. One of the main goals of ChivTW is a historical-realism design as base for a historical play - it obviously offers the blitzing and AI exploit with the FM's in certain regions and with certain factions.
Although i rarily could observe such blitzing in earlier version reports. Maybe we made the bg's now unintended stronger than in former versions, i'll check this soon.

Edit: Do you play with RTW or BI? ... there might be significant difference. I only play on BI. Always i'm attacked by the independent factions and the other AI's anyway, the independent factions as well siege my settlements. As you report about the independent stack is standing passive at a watchtower and doing nothing ... i couldn't ever observe something, as said, in my playtesting they are eager to attack me in the moment they get a chance to meet me in the field, also if the independent armies tnd very much to "observe" watchtowers (they can be indeed used as border guards for your own land ..lol).

[DaVinci]

Moved to RTW AARs.

Would you please leave a copy in the ChivTW forum?

You can always make a copy of ChivTW AAR's for this forum, but do not move them entirely unless the author asked for this ... we have now 28 ChivTW AAR's btw., it is not planned to have them exclusively and only in this forum here.

This is something else, if players start a Chiv AAR here in this AAR-forum ... everybody is free to start his AAR either in the ChivTW forum or here, of course.

And, please ask Alavaria, if he wants to have this AAR here or if it shall stay in the ChivTW forum, or whatever, it's his decision.

EDIT

I at least do not visit this place here often, and would be taken away from such AAR's which are a good base for balancing discussions.

[Alavaria]

ChivTW is not made, or better not planned to make up a blitzkrieg game.

I should hope so

As for this, there are eventually two edu files in future (as alternative extraction), one with 2hp units and one without. The current 2hp units will stay superior, but surely not that much of an option for the AI exploit/blitzing.

Of course, the file swap solution. of course, weakening the generals also makes them (the AI's) easier to kill. Without a general, the AI is incredibly vulnerable to chain routs (and subsequent massacres). But I'd definitely go with whichever EDU is "harder" if you get it before I start on your challenge.

Mind you, it's one of those "tails I win, heads you lose" things, because players will seek to maximize on their strengths and exploit their enemy's weaknesses.

The 2hp has mainly the purpose to reflect the strength of knights on a warhorse, as they were just the "tanks" in the middleage, and indeed were able to rout such peasant armies you have shown above as of yet.

Of note, though, is the fact that they *already* have a lot more defence/armor than anything around by a fair bit. Even 1 hp knights take forever to go down even (well, the AI's 1 hp knights, anyway).

But, and that's the point, it is not realistic that a handful of knights would subjugate whole regions with its capital cities, and this thing within a few years - so here is the point where i think: we need to change the 2hp units to another balance for the default mod.

Of course. The issue is that a goodly force of knights could realistically defeat the army if they weren't silly. What isn't realistic is the fact that they would not only go on to capture a settlement, but also hold it, feed garrison troops, and simply go off to capture another. At most, they would take a town and be glad with that. Of course, there's only so much you can do to constrain campaign activity. (And modern strategies will beat older ones).

Although i rarily could observe such blitzing in earlier version reports. Maybe we made the bg's now unintended stronger than in former versions, i'll check this soon.

Perhaps it's because people automatically assume 50 vs 600 is a lost cause, even if it's 50 elite knights vs 600 peasants? I remember the description of the levy peasants - something about numbers and incapability...

Edit: Do you play with RTW or BI? ... there might be significant difference. I only play on BI. Always i'm attacked by the independent factions and the other AI's anyway, the independent factions as well siege my settlements. As you report about the independent stack is standing passive at a watchtower and doing nothing ... i couldn't ever observe something, as said, in my playtesting they are eager to attack me in the moment they get a chance to meet me in the field.

BI, of course. As I said for, for some reason they did NOT attack when I sieged their town (I think they had moved too far away to get back in a single turn) and once I took it, it had a five unit garrison there. Yeah, I sieged and assaulted the next turn, of course. Remember that the rebels were then "stranded" on Bohmeian territory, so they weren't "defending" anything (they will defend their own territories). That probably made the rebels decide not to do anything. They would move back and forth every now and then, and I kept a spy nearby in case they *did* decide to do something. That particular stack had an intimidating amount of woodsmen, hence why I didn't try to wipe them out until much later