Napoleon's Campaign in Russia

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

OK, I'm just curious. In the previous games if you had some good armies, like 5 armies of good 20 units each, if you went to conquer Russia, even new players could win the Russian Campaign in pretty much an easy way. It would take you some turns, to move the armies across the vast territories of Russia but in the end you could easily win.
Do you think that in Empire, we could actually have a better simulation of the difficulties that Napoleon and his Grand Armada had, from the weather and supply lines and difficult conditions?
And we all know that when he lost an important campaign like that, his reputation and force fell in France. Is it possible that in Empire, when you lose some important battles, you could be thrown off the throne?
I'm just curious to know at what level this things are reflected in Empire, and a couple of this questions I think can be answered only from the CA guys.

[ElSypatiko]

Good point of vieuw.
But i think Nappy had enough support thoose days.
And it is true a mob loves winners not loosers.
What if he changed places at waterloo?Ney in place of Grouchy ?(Little historic)

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

Good point of vieuw.
But i think Nappy had enough support thoose days.
And it is true a mob loves winners not loosers.
What if he changed places at waterloo?Ney in place of Grouchy ?(Little historic)

Well, he used Ney in the battle in charge of the cavalry. And Ney was more known for his courage, and instead of Grouchy he should have appointed a very intelligent commander, who could improvise because the communication lines were difficult to maintain with his army. Grouchy just followed orders.

[Destraex]

I agree. Supply lines should be in. The Russians beat several invasions in this period like that.
First the Swedish Army -Elite as you can get - and the the French Army - a coalition of good and bad allies

[Skyline Pete]

It's been stated previously that weather will affect game play, although in exactly what way they've not specified exactly how to my knowledge.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

It's been stated previously that weather will affect game play, although in exactly what way they've not specified exactly how to my knowledge.

Yes it has been said that it will affect gameplay, but I'm afraid that it is going to be in the battle with Russian units having "a bonus fighting in snow". BTW I'm not complaining, I'm just curious how it's gonna work. I'm still gonna buy Empire.

[ElSypatiko]

Well, he used Ney in the battle in charge of the cavalry. And Ney was more known for his courage, and instead of Grouchy he should have appointed a very intelligent commander, who could improvise because the communication lines were difficult to maintain with his army. Grouchy just followed orders.

Nice ,
but what if ?
Ney pursuiting Prussians - prevented to intervine and grouchy cautions attacing hougemont instead of ney using +- 15.000 man .
I love thoose what ifs
Gtx

[Aradan]

Hey guys, let's not derail the topic with off-topic speculations about history.


It looks like we won't get a 'supply' feature in ETW; pity, it was an extremely important aspect of warfare of the time. Probably not very easy to implement in a satisfactory way.

[ElSypatiko]

Hey guys, let's not derail the topic with off-topic speculations about history.


It looks like we won't get a 'supply' feature in ETW; pity, it was an extremely important aspect of warfare of the time. Probably not very easy to implement in a satisfactory way.

Somewhowe luckily .
Played a game where supply was counting .
Attacked a fleet of frigate with 4 Battleships and suddenly in themiddle of the battle no supply - no ammo
Oeps
I think it was Cossacks
Gtx

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

Nice ,
but what if ?
Ney pursuiting Prussians - prevented to intervine and grouchy cautions attacing hougemont instead of ney using +- 15.000 man .
I love thoose what ifs
Gtx

Yes, I love those what ifs too, and I think CA games are the only that can make you try to change history. That's one of the most beautiful things. I think that if Napoleon had still Davout and Murat leading the cavalry he could have send Ney or Davout to pursuit the Prussians. Then maybe things would be really different...

You are right about that game that you played, nobody would have liked that, it seems it was badly implemented. But I think that something nice could have been done with the supply lines or attrition damage.

[Battletoads]

Well if their is going to be a napoleon campaign they can not miss it out but I hope it is something much better then a couple of traits like in mods but it takes in account tech,how recently conquered territories etc.

A good game with a supply system is hearts of iron 2.

[Ebusitanus]

I do not think that the russian winter will be hardcoded specially in this game. Invading armies all across the game will suffer from attrition/weather but i doubt Russia will be special in that aspect. The problem about Russia will be its inmense size which will have your invading armies exposed to the elements quite long before you can R&R them properly. That should IMHo suffice.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

I do not think that the russian winter will be hardcoded specially in this game. Invading armies all across the game will suffer from attrition/weather but i doubt Russia will be special in that aspect. The problem about Russia will be its inmense size which will have your invading armies exposed to the elements quite long before you can R&R them properly. That should IMHo suffice.

Is there any article where attrition / whether effects on invading armies is cited?

[5Hits]

Check my idea here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=logistics

[aeteRnusRMW]

I'm paraphrasing here but it has been stated that "Russia will not be as easy to invade as other countries, you may come unstuck just like Napoleon". I think it was from a PCGAMER preview a few months ago.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

Check my idea here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=logistics

It seems reasonable, but again if you are in late turns, and you have a huge empire with huge amounts of money, these costs can be afforded, and we would be where we are now. I'm not saying it is not a good idea, but I am more for casualties among soldiers, the more you stay in a harsh territory. The casualties could be similar with the the defenders of a siege in the previous games. When the Grand Armada of Napoleon was returning from the Russian Campaign, mos of the soldiers had died from the cold.

[5Hits]

That is a good idea Centurion, but casualties should occur only after a long campaign (in enemy territory). Until then, we should have to pay extra for the upkeep of that army (proportionally with the distances to our own territories and with the “quality” of our troops).

Maybe CA will provide a mix of the two ideas.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

That is a good idea Centurion, but casualties should occur only after a long campaign (in enemy territory). Until then, we should have to pay extra for the upkeep of that army (proportionally with the distances to our own territories and with the “quality” of our troops).

Maybe CA will provide a mix of the two ideas.

I hope so. They have made a lot of new additions to Empire, and maybe this is something they have added to the game, although in the Beta article or PC Gamer review, this aspect of the game is not cited. Since CA guys are not pronouncing on this, I guess we'll have to wait for the 5th of March (I don't live in the US).

[Juvenal]

That is a good idea Centurion, but casualties should occur only after a long campaign (in enemy territory). Until then, we should have to pay extra for the upkeep of that army (proportionally with the distances to our own territories and with the “quality” of our troops).

Maybe CA will provide a mix of the two ideas.

Most of Napoleon's losses actually occurred in the summer during his manoeuvres to try to bring the Russians to battle.

The main body of 400,000 in June was reduced to only 130,000 in September on the eve of Borodino, without any major battles. The losses were from the breakdown of the supply system, due to the death of most of its draft animals, caused in turn by its attempts to keep up with the infantry who were advancing by forced-marches.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

Most of Napoleon's losses actually occurred in the summer during his manoeuvres to try to bring the Russians to battle.

The main body of 400,000 in June was reduced to only 130,000 in September on the eve of Borodino, without any major battles. The losses were from the breakdown of the supply system, due to the death of most of its draft animals, caused in turn by its attempts to keep up with the infantry who were advancing by forced-marches.

To be exact from Wikipedia "The French suffered greatly in the course of a ruinous retreat, including from the harshness of the Russian Winter. The Armée had begun as over 450,000 frontline troops, but in the end fewer than 40,000 crossed the Berezina River in November 1812, to escape.The strategy employed by the Russians had worn down the invaders: French losses in the campaign were about 570,000 in total.The Russians lost 150,000 in battle and hundreds of thousands of civilians."