The Great Conflicts main discussion thread. Please post here!

[Tureuki]

I might come up with some appropiate names for Pecheneg units. Just need the list of units and their spesifications.

[AnthoniusII]

I might come up with some appropiate names for Pecheneg units. Just need the list of units and their spesifications.

Thank you . I will gather pics and "social" status and sent them.

[neoptolemos]

what's wrong with the Pecheneg names?
There is no evidence how their names were actually called and the names I created were supposed to be practical adaptations from the source material.

[AnthoniusII]

what's wrong with the Pecheneg names?
There is no evidence how their names were actually called and the names I created were supposed to be practical adaptations from the source material.

My friend i haven't play with Pechenegs for about a year or more. Forgive me if i forgot that they have names already made by you.

[_Tartaros_]

that´s in the current export_units.txt (version 0.85)

{Pecheneg_Tribesmen}Tribesmen
{Pecheneg_Tribesmen_descr}Tribesmen
{Pecheneg_Tribesmen_descr_short}Tribesmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_descr}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_descr_short}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP_descr}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP_descr_short}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{Tribal_Foot_Archers}Tribal Archers
{Tribal_Foot_Archers_descr}Tribal Archers
{Tribal_Foot_Archers_descr_short}Tribal Archers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry_descr}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry_descr_short}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers_descr}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers_descr_short}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers_descr}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers_descr_short}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen}Chosen Spearmen
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen_descr}Chosen Spearmen
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen_descr_short}Chosen Spearmen
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers_descr}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers_descr_short}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Mihtar's_Company}Mihtar's Company
{Mihtar's_Company_descr}Mihtar's Company
{Mihtar's_Company_descr_short}Mihtar's Company
{Pecheneg_Nobles}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_Nobles_descr}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_Nobles_descr_short}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_PG}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_PG_descr}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_PG_descr_short}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards}Pecheneg Bodyguards
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards_descr}Pecheneg Bodyguards
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards_descr_short}Pecheneg Bodyguards

everything is just basic atm - so every contribution is welcome

[Tureuki]

You want Native/English combined names right?

Edit: Yes the resources are very limited on Pechenegs but thanks to likes of Qashgari we have good knowlodge over Turkic languages of the period. We can come up with appropiate names if not fully historical and documented.

[_Tartaros_]

for now there´s no static branding at all.
some units have native names, others just english ones. i personally favoir the native name first + an english translation.

For example EBII just have native names, but there names are not common for most players, making them unrecognizable in battleresults or namerelated issues.

something like this:

{shtitonosci}Shtitonostzi
{shtitonosci_descr}Shtitonostzi – Literally meaning “shield-bearers” [BG: щитоносци], these men have taken their name from the specific shields they carry, as described by Mauricius in his Strategikon chapter about the Slavs: “Every man is armed with at least two throwing spears and some of them with big and long shields, like doors – very strong, but uncomfortable”. But now these shields have an improved and rounded version, making them easier to be worn and giving the men an even better ability to fight. And they have a reason to fight, as they are mostly free men, peasants who have been called to arms to fight for their land against its many enemies. They are well prepared to fight with their javelins, striking from a distance, while their large shields offer them a good protection from any enemy ranged retaliation. As they finish firing their javelins, they can take out their axes to mop up what is left of the enemy in close combat.
{shtitonosci_descr_short}Javelinmen

into

{shtitonosci}Shtitonostzi (Javelinmen)
{shtitonosci_descr}Shtitonostzi – Literally meaning “shield-bearers” [BG: щитоносци], these men have taken their name from the specific shields they carry, as described by Mauricius in his Strategikon chapter about the Slavs: “Every man is armed with at least two throwing spears and some of them with big and long shields, like doors – very strong, but uncomfortable”. But now these shields have an improved and rounded version, making them easier to be worn and giving the men an even better ability to fight. And they have a reason to fight, as they are mostly free men, peasants who have been called to arms to fight for their land against its many enemies. They are well prepared to fight with their javelins, striking from a distance, while their large shields offer them a good protection from any enemy ranged retaliation. As they finish firing their javelins, they can take out their axes to mop up what is left of the enemy in close combat.
{shtitonosci_descr_short}Javelinmen

[neoptolemos]

that´s in the current export_units.txt (version 0.85)

{Pecheneg_Tribesmen}Tribesmen
{Pecheneg_Tribesmen_descr}Tribesmen
{Pecheneg_Tribesmen_descr_short}Tribesmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_descr}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_descr_short}Slavic Auxilias
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP_descr}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{PCH_Slavic_Auxilias_SP_descr_short}Slavic Auxilias Spearmen
{Tribal_Foot_Archers}Tribal Archers
{Tribal_Foot_Archers_descr}Tribal Archers
{Tribal_Foot_Archers_descr_short}Tribal Archers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry_descr}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Cavalry_descr_short}Tribal Cavalry
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers_descr}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Tribal_Lancers_descr_short}Tribal Lancers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers_descr}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Foot_Archers_descr_short}Chosen Archers
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen}Chosen Spearmen
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen_descr}Chosen Spearmen
{Pecheneg_Chosen_Spearmen_descr_short}Chosen Spearmen
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers_descr}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Tribal_Chosen_Horsearchers_descr_short}Tribal Chosen Horsearchers
{Mihtar's_Company}Mihtar's Company
{Mihtar's_Company_descr}Mihtar's Company
{Mihtar's_Company_descr_short}Mihtar's Company
{Pecheneg_Nobles}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_Nobles_descr}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_Nobles_descr_short}Pecheneg Noble Horsearchers
{Pecheneg_PG}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_PG_descr}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_PG_descr_short}Pecheneg Noble Lancers
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards}Pecheneg Bodyguards
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards_descr}Pecheneg Bodyguards
{Pecheneg_Bodyguards_descr_short}Pecheneg Bodyguards

Oh except for the Mihtar's unit the rest are generic names. The names I have created are somewhere in the developers forum.....
They are supposed to be based on Turkic names, adaptations for the needs of the roster.....
If i find them , I would try to post them Tureuki could possibly be of good help here.

everything is just basic atm - so every contribution is welcome

[Wallachian]

The EBII method is silly, unless you look at the unit info how are you going to know what a Shtitonostzi is? There should always be an English explanation otherwise the average player will be left out in the dark.

[AnthoniusII]

The EBII method is silly, unless you look at the unit info how are you going to know what a Shtitonostzi is? There should always be an English explanation otherwise the average player will be left out in the dark.

We foloowed your sugestion even from early days while describing Bulgarian Units:
An example:

Shtitonostzi – Literally meaning “shield-bearers” [BG: щитоносци], these men have taken their name from the specific shields they carry, as described by Mauricius in his Strategikon chapter about the Slavs: “Every man is armed with at least two throwing spears and some of them with big and long shields, like doors – very strong, but uncomfortable”. But now these shields have an improved and rounded version, making them easier to be worn and giving the men an even better ability to fight. And they have a reason to fight, as they are mostly free men, peasants who have been called to arms to fight for their land against its many enemies. They are well prepared to fight with their javelins, striking from a distance, while their large shields offer them a good protection from any enemy ranged retaliation. As they finish firing their javelins, they can take out their axes to mop up what is left of the enemy in close combat.

[NikeBG]

Another option I've seen in some M&B mods is, instead of writing the full English name, to just put their "class" - f.e. "Shtitonostsi [LI]", "Konnitsi [LC]", "Bolyare [HC]" etc. (where LI=Light Infantry, HI=Heavy Infantry, LC=Light Cavalry, HC=Heavy Cavalry, HA=Horse Archers etc).

[neoptolemos]

Here there are

Infantry:

1.Oda-As
2.Vulatsopon
3.Slavic warriors
4.Slavic Auxillae
5.Giazihopon Begs
6.Sirukalpei Tarkhans

Cavalry:
1.Tribal warriors/Kargan
2.Kargan lancers or Kargan Chopons
2.Vorotalmat/ Pecheneg Chosen warriors
3.Havuksingila Mihtar(previously Mihtar's companion)
4.Kuartsitsur Begs
5.Iavdiertim Tarkhans
7.Kagan Tarkahns/Begs

oda=Clan As=people
Mihtar=Prince,Elder, noble chieftain
Begs=Chieftains, lords
Tarkhan pretty much the same but more related to military
Kagan =leader sometimes synonym with Mihtar (although Mihtar according to Arabs is a leader/elder of a limited area-pretty much the leader of a clan) but signified a "Khan"
Kargan the name possibly the Pechenegs were calling themselves
Havuksingila, Iavdiertim, Kuartsitsur the names of the 3 noble clans (which also provided the best warriors for Pechenegs)
Vorotalmat another name of a tribe meaning "Dark Interpreter"
Vulatsopon=shepherds of Bula
Chopon=shepherds
Giazihopon clan name
Sirukalpei, clan name

[_Tartaros_]

thanks
i put it into the files

[Tureuki]

1.Oda-As: I suggest "Qara Er Tribesmen", Qara/Kara means black but its also commonly used to describe poor common folk, recorded as "Kara Bodun(Black nation)" in Orkhon inscriptions.
2.Vulatsopon: I think simply "Chopon" is enough. "Chopon Archers". I dont support using smaller tribe names in unit names.
3.Slavic warriors
4.Slavic Auxillae
5.Giazihopon Begs: "Yadag Spearmen", Yadag means infantry, on foot. Nobles wouldn fight as spearmen anyway. This unit would make more sense as handpicked tribesmen designated to fight on foot by their overlords.
6.Sirukalpei Tarkhans: "Kangar Yigit Archers". Yigit=Brave, juvenile. Again handpicked by their masters. Tarkhan is one of the highest ranks in the society. Even if they occassionally have to fight on foot I still wouldnt make an infantry unit out of them.

Cavalry:
1.Tribal warriors/Kargan: "Qara Er Tribal Cavalry" or may be "Pecheneg Er Tribal Cavalry" as you used in preview. To differentiate them from poorer common folk that cant afford mounts.
2.Kargan lancers or Kargan Chopons: Kangar(Isnt it Kangar?) Lancers will do.
2.Vorotalmat/ Pecheneg Chosen warriors: Pecheneg Yigit Horse Archers
4.Kuartsitsur Begs: Alpagut or Alp Horse Archer. Alp is a high ranking warrior, sometimes interpreted as "Hero".

3.Havuksingila Mihtar(previously Mihtar's companion)
5.Iavdiertim Tarkhans
7.Kagan Tarkahns/Begs

I'm not sure about those guys, I dont know how they look. I guess one will be Beg, one will be Tarkhan. Kagan is bg I think?

This is my suggestion.

[AnthoniusII]

Testing few more textures I put my Thematic Armies against Normans!
Damn those knights..
The best defence against them is to avoid an open fight. No Thematic mounted unit (not even Aristocrats) are a match to them.
So defence with lot's of spears and pray!

[Darios]

Quick question - the Slavic units in the Pecheneg roster are Tivertsi and Ulich tribesmen?

[AnthoniusII]

Quick question - the Slavic units in the Pecheneg roster are Tivertsi and Ulich tribesmen?

We have not yet given names to them because Pechenegs, Rus and Khazars had a variety of Slavic tribes as vassals.
UPDATE: Medium horse TGC folder became "lighter: because now all faction horse skins use the same normal map one. Just before the release a small update of that horse model will be done ussing basic suddle blancet model of Razor's and it normal map.
That way every faction will have unit blankets paterns without changing normal map texture. Also it will be easier for future sub mods to create new paterns.

[Darios]

We have not yet given names to them because Pechenegs, Rus and Khazars had a variety of Slavic tribes as vassals.

It would make sense to focus on the Tivertsi and Ulichi in this regard (IMO). The reason being is that the campaign map focuses on the southern regions of Rus (modern day Podolia) which was the territory of the Tivertsi during the 9th-10th centuries. The same holds true for the Pechenegs, as the region would be part of their migration/invasion path.

[AnthoniusII]

One dream is about to become true.

Watch carefully the cloth under the suddle.

You will nottice that their "cloth" under the suddle often has paterns.
Rusichi primarily material did not allow us to create such.
So we borrowed a couple of Razor's Roman Medium horse ones to add in our medium horses.
That way we can add more details in our horses plus to create a basis for mods that will use them in the future.
Here is how the finall result will look like.


The model combines reins and horse body made by Dome , suddle and model plus original normal maps made by MARKA and more horse textures made by Leif Erikson and sub skins made by me.
Cloth and metal ring of reins made by Razor.

[AnthoniusII]

As I promised.
No matter what will happen to me, the material I will upload will be easy to create submods.



3d ring in the horse mouth and the simple blanket are creations of Razor's that was kind to allow us use some of his material.
Now horses have 10 sets of reins with 5 blankets of Razor's that will allow you repaint them and add decorations without changing the normal map!
Each horse set now has 10 sets of reins, one suddle and 8 horses!