The Great Conflicts main discussion thread. Please post here!

[AnthoniusII]

Antonius, I think I love you... but I also sort of hate you at the same time... It's complicated

Love me?
Why?
Love those Credits have in their list....They are the real cause of all the wonders i reveal...every day as the official traitor of the fellowship!
By posting a picture does not mean that i am making that unit.
My part is to "rework" any model under the gravity/realism project.
I combine solutions that are available to me through experiments or via modeling lessons the original creators offer.
Examples:
Latest units of ours (byzantine characters, Turcoman units) have been reworked on their head coifs to elliminate the transparecy of light through them originaly have.
Absinthia offered the solution and i was made it as i have all the files of every creator.
An other example:
See in my previus post Socal's Oghuz javelin horsemen.
In the pic nothing looks strange. But in game javelin men models have a nasty effect of disapearing secondary passive weapons for a couple of secs when the primary javeling leaves the hand...
Koultouras provited the solution to that problem that i had the responsibillity to implement in all our javelinmen of all our creators. That way original creators have more time to deal with real moddeling and texturing.
In the end -as i am always the last user of each model- i post its ingame picture. But the real work has been done from the Original Creators as i list them in Credits. Rep them as they are the only people that deserve that for what we all see in the pictures i simply post.

[Marshal Sa'd of Jerusalem]

Roughly what % of this mod is completed thus far?

[Wareg]

you only forget a vital thing. that a mounted elite, when charging delivers a blow that is produced by both attack and charge values

Trust me that I know that mounted units have more powerful charge . I rather mean comparing defence values in both versions (mounted/dismounted).

When using a global system for shields (which i have) for the sake of sanity, all round shields should more less have the same values, all kite ones as well etc

Can't you manually change cavalry's shield values?

I trust you that cavalry will be inferior to infantry in melee. Only thing I'm trying to point out is that horse armour make considerable difference - lack of horse armour make even best armoured rider much more vulnerable to infantry blows/missiles. I don't know any spear/missile bonus which work against riders with unarmoured horses but doesn't work against armoured mounts (maybe except mount_effect, but It doesn't work over +3 value)

Furthermore, since some of the horses will look like tanks(clad in full lamelar, or gambeson) this will unfortunatelly make them move slower. And you know what happens when someone facing archers is slow to engage them in melee

If I had a choice, I would choose horse armour, not speed. Horse armour was expensive thing, available only for elites and absorbing more material than rider's armour, so It must be effective, isn't It?

I'm still not sure If you understand what I mean (probably due to language barrier, english isn't my primary language and I'm not sure If I can explain precisely what I mean )

Good luck with your system, are you sure that before TGC premiere couldn't you make version with custom battles? It will be nice gift and maybe some players will help you with balancing...

[AnthoniusII]

Roughly what % of this mod is completed thus far?

Lets say more than 50%

Good luck with your system, are you sure that before TGC premiere couldn't you make version with custom battles? It will be nice gift and maybe some players will help you with balancing...

No certainly not.
What will happen is that when all faction rosters , mercenary troops and map will be ready our fellowship will invite some more players for a close and private battle tests while campaign scripts and and extra coding will take place.
There in those test armies will clash against one an other in all kind of battlefields that only a complete map can offer.
The players data base will help us to finilise the ballance system.

[Wareg]

Good idea, battlefield may be key factor. I'm volunteering for battle test!

Which roster are you working on now? As far I know only Serbians, Moravians and part of Muslim roster are unfinished...

[AnthoniusII]

Good idea, battlefield may be key factor. I'm volunteering for battle test!

Which roster are you working on now? As far I know only Serbians, Moravians and part of Muslim roster are unfinished...

We will let you know when battle tests will be ready to be made.
Yes we need to finish or make Great Moravia, Serbia and some unique units of half of the Islamic rosters.
Also we need to make (it quite easy) the Khalbid roster of Sicily revolt.
That roster will contain much "heavier" arabic units than the rest of the rosters with out "turkic" mercenaries and extensive archers use.
But they will use not only the islamic tradition of heavy armor but also the similar tradition of their closest enemies Romans and Lombards.
In conclusion "sicily" arabs will lack of horsearchers and "turkc" units but they will have cheaper crossbowmen heavier infantry troops.
They will be closer to Chandax rather to other islamic armies.

We evaluate the sugestions of a possible Serbian roster.
In conclusion the terms "heavy" and "noble" wont have direct affect of the warriors apearence. What will be heavy to Serbians could be "medium" or "regular"-in armor- to other rosters.
Serbians must rely to their cheap to reqruit and maintain troops (there for larger numbers of them available) and to their mountain terain that will make the use of cavalry almost impossible.
Great Moravia will be a mix of Slavic elements (early creations of Mattheus and Heathen Storm and germanic influences ...
More news soon.

[Caudillo87]

Excellent work as usual gentlemen, never cease to amaze or inspire me.

[AnthoniusII]

I just found my new favorite armor!


Full face chain coif dark-iron-chain mail and light lammelar above it!
It is the latest and much better version of this guy (both mounted and dismounted).


Ofcourse ...you know who you must rep....Press HERE

[AnthoniusII]

The Turcomans roster as is now:
Bodyguard:
1: Sultan's Ghulams
King'smen units:*
2:Ghulams
3: Sultan's Askari (former Seljuk Amirs)
4: Dism. Sultan's Askari
Provincial/Tribal roster: (from higher status to lower one)
5: Türkmen Amirs or Beğs(lesser nobillity) Alternative name: Amirs Askari
6: Dism Türkmen Amirs or Beğs (lesser nobillity)
7: Selçuk Iqta’dars (horse spearmen)-(high quality warriors)
8: Selçuk Iqta’dars (horsearchers) (1 upgrade)-(high quality warriors)
9: Oğuz Beğs (actually chosen warriors)
10: Türkmen Horsearchers (1 upgrade)
11: Oğuz Tribal warriors (Horsearchers)
12: Oğuz Tribal Cavalry (skirmisers)
13: Oğuz Tribesmen (peasant level archers)
Mercenaries available in the main roster from the start:
14: Daylami infantry (high quality skirmisers)-(1 upgrade)
15: Daylami spearmen (medium spearmen)-(1 upgrade)
AOR based mercenaries available by holding areas:**
16: Armenian border guards (medium axemen)
17: Armenian nobles (cataphract style horsemen).
Possible addition to AOR unit roster
18: Kurdish tribal warriors (skirmisers).

*King'smen in every TGC roster is the personal or capital army of each King.
Their number can defer from 2 to 12 according to each faction's spesial standing.
All "king'smen" units are available from the start but they will be very expensive to reqruite or maintain and they will have an extremly slow rate of reqruitment.
** These units wont be previewed with the main roster but with ALL AOR based units in the end of the previews.

PS: Unit names were chosen under the following :
1: Armies and enemies of the Crusades by Ian Heath
2: The need of presenting the multi tribal armies of the confederation.
PS2: All steppe based rosters have no ships and no siege machines in their disposal.
Only rams,ladders and siege towers for suicidal/direct asaults.

[Tureuki]

Check your pm...

[Dr. Jones]

Beautiful....

[Majkl]

So that last guy is Moravian warrior?

[AnthoniusII]

So that last guy is Moravian warrior?

Lets see..He has a rather steppe face, a rope tarkan shield...
Can he be a Moravian warrior?
Answer:
No he is one of the Oğuz Tribal Cavalrymen.

[Majkl]

Yeah that is why I am asking bald head and that strange clothing, that axe seemed familiar though

[dracorax]

16: Armenian border guards (medium axemen)
17: Armenian nobles (cataphract style horsemen).

Romans could recruit these too right?

And I still can't wait for the mod however me being hyped doesn't make the mod finish any faster. (if only)

[Wareg]

What about Avars?
According to "The early medieval Balkans" by John V. A. Fine there were battle between them and Frankish troops in 863, they are also mentioned in 889. I know that It's quite early for this mod but maybe they can be available for few tens of years as AoR unit - in lands of southern Great Moravia and nothern parts of Bulgaria. In Bulgarian army they will be less useful, but they may be a great addition to Great Moravia roster, as cataphract style heavy cavalry (protoypes of Roman ones) or horse archers. Something like Khazar cavalry to Rus roster. What's more they may be the most exotic unit, cause according to Rouran theory they come from lands bordering to China, and large part of this people was Mongolian and Chinsese origin.
If you think that Avars don't fit enough to TGC timeframe to make separate unit, maybe some (small part) of Moravian cavalrymen, within mostly "Slavic" unit, can have more Asiatic features, clothes/armours, decorative quivers and famous braids?

[AnthoniusII]

16: Armenian border guards (medium axemen)
17: Armenian nobles (cataphract style horsemen).

Romans could recruit these too right?

Thank you for your kind words.
Yes Armenians will be available to Romans, Arabs and anyone that will qonquer their homelands (far east anatolia).

What about Avars?
According to "The early medieval Balkans" by John V. A. Fine there were battle between them and Frankish troops in 863, they are also mentioned in 889. I know that It's quite early for this mod but maybe they can be available for few tens of years as AoR unit - in lands of southern Great Moravia and nothern parts of Bulgaria. In Bulgarian army they will be less useful, but they may be a great addition to Great Moravia roster, as cataphract style heavy cavalry (protoypes of Roman ones) or horse archers. Something like Khazar cavalry to Rus roster. What's more they may be the most exotic unit, cause according to Rouran theory they come from lands bordering to China, and large part of this people was Mongolian and Chinsese origin.
If you think that Avars don't fit enough to TGC timeframe to make separate unit, maybe some (small part) of Moravian cavalrymen, within mostly "Slavic" unit, can have more Asiatic features, clothes/armours, decorative quivers and famous braids?

Avars...Maybe the Merc AOR unit roster is not finilised yet.
But i do remember that Socal's 1st attempt was for Alans.

A possible AOR mini roster could have among local levy and noble troops.
Armenians
Alans
Khazars
Italian millitias
North african slaves
Neretvani pirates etc...

[dracorax]

Another question.

Are the Armenian Cataphracts better then the roman aristocrats?

And I have a feeling the roman strategy will be to defeat the bulgarians first as they are the closest to the capital while have enough forces in anatolia to defend against the caliphate. If you have a good solid navy taking out chandax and conquer cyprus. My guess is that I might have to give up the few italian provinces you start with because it will be hard to defend it and this way you only have 2 fronts ( bulgarian, possible caliphate).

[AnthoniusII]

In fact provincial cataphracts of Romans (Aristocrats) will be equal to Armenians.
As we mentioned many times before Romans copied the Khazar and Armenian cataphract consepts and impoved them via better equipment.
Remember that I.Tzimeskes (an Armenian) recruited more cataphracts by "copying"Armenian ones and created the last and newst Tagma ton Athanaton (immortals).
Ofcourse the Imperial Armoury could provide the best armor and weaponry in the world at that point to them.

[Cvetko]

Hello, its been a while...
These are not nearly as epic, as your screenshots,
but consider this a humble gift to your great project (Roman shields):


Attaleia



Symprothevusa



Konstantinopolis


Karia



Ahaia



Thrakia



Armenia



Suria



Bonus: A memorial video

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: