The Great Conflicts main discussion thread. Please post here!

[ExtremeBG]

Great news about the recieved help, keep on going !

[BarnicleBill1]

This is good, I'm so excited to play this!

[AnthoniusII]

You can see a tiny shield texture preview in our Minor previews thread!

[BarnicleBill1]

They look great, I look forward to seeing them in game!

[AnthoniusII]

Our new menaulatoi spearmen will benefit from those shields!

[BarnicleBill1]

Great! And I hope you feel better!

[Diocle]

Your health is the most important thing of the world AnthoniusII, so, please take care of yourself and rest, Attila can wait, from what I've read I doubt I'll buy it (at least for few months ..., or even years!).

[AnthoniusII]

New round shields find their way to our models!

[Reno Melitensis]

The important think is that you recover your health Antonius. Get well soon.

Cheers

[Diocle]

Beautiful shield! .. and great unit!

So, will we get in the same units kite shields and round shields?

[AnthoniusII]

Beautiful shield! .. and great unit!

So, will we get in the same units kite shields and round shields?

No we will stick in our previus way of portaying units.
That means:
Scutatoi tier1,2,3 with oval shields. Scutatoi tier 4 with kite shields (showing the evolution).
Menaulatoi both tiers round shields because ussing the same armors of scutatoi tier 3 and 4 (showing the infantry diferent shields).
Cavalarii defensores (lancers) tier 1 & 2 will have round shields , tier 3 will have kite ones (showing the evolution).
Aristocratae (provincial cataphracts) will have diferent patern round shields (tier 1) and both round and kite shields (tier 2).

[paleologos]

No we will stick in our previus way of portaying units.
That means:
Scutatoi tier1,2,3 with oval shields. Scutatoi tier 4 with kite shields (showing the evolution).
Menaulatoi both tiers round shields because ussing the same armors of scutatoi tier 3 and 4 (showing the infantry diferent shields).
Cavalarii defensores (lancers) tier 1 & 2 will have round shields , tier 3 will have kite ones (showing the evolution).
Aristocratae (provincial cataphracts) will have diferent patern round shields (tier 1) and both round and kite shields (tier 2).

Just mentioning the names of those units opened my appetite for screenshots.
I could not find any pictures of the Cavalarii defensores, though I might not be looking hard enough.
Would you please do us a treat?

And the trapezitai seem to be armed with lance and javelins, right?

[BarnicleBill1]

Sounds nice, the units always looked wonderful! How are the other factions coming along?

[AnthoniusII]

Just mentioning the names of those units opened my appetite for screenshots.
I could not find any pictures of the Cavalarii defensores, though I might not be looking hard enough.
Would you please do us a treat?

And the trapezitai seem to be armed with lance and javelins, right?

Our units remain same as we made them from the start. All we change is their textures and models to fit with the rest of the Roman roster.
Yes Trapezitae will have spear and javelin , not lance!
Remember that TGC has two sizes for spears (2m, 3m) and lances are even longer!
New pictures will be available as soon both loaylists and rebelius romans will be ready!
So far you can remember these pictures in this post.

Sounds nice, the units always looked wonderful! How are the other factions coming along?

Well we had a delay mainly because in the past months our main texturers left modding or became inactive (Leif Erikson, Socal_Infidel, Matthaeus etc).
Personaly the past summer was a realy dificult for me...
Now when Romans will be done (redone actually) we have to:
Complete the Islamic rosters (4 common units are missing and 6 common units need change of colours for their texture according to their faction).
Great Moravia has only middle rank units and needs some low rank levies and their nobillity!
Serbia has only 3 units plus two placeholders. Also needs another 5 units atleast.
Thanks to Avetis we are going to make the two Armenian AOR units.
When those units will be done only their codding will need rebalancing to make some of our units AOR/Region spesific or mercenary kind!
_Tartaros_ has made the extensive steps of the Roman recruitment system that needs few more details before we will use that expirience to more simple or more complicated recruitment systems like the Islamic ones!
hyretic has made a great progress in buildigs UI icons and battle UI...
The last delay is my fault...

[BarnicleBill1]

That's good to hear. Im glad things are looking up. How do the Serbian units look if you have the time to post anything? You all have done great work. I really wish I could help.

[paleologos]

Yes Trapezitae will have spear and javelin , not lance!
Remember that TGC has two sizes for spears (2m, 3m) and lances are even longer!

I understand how infantry units armed with spears of different lengths can be set up for different roles in their faction's fighting system.
But what will the difference be in the cavalry unit stats between cavalry armed with a spear and cavalry armed with a lance?

So far you can remember these pictures in this post.

I must have missed that post when it was recent, anyway they are of top quality.
I understand the cavalarii defensores will be light lancers for the roles of flanking charges and swift pursuit, much like the stratiotae of CBUR, right?

[AnthoniusII]

I understand how infantry units armed with spears of different lengths can be set up for different roles in their faction's fighting system.
But what will the difference be in the cavalry unit stats between cavalry armed with a spear and cavalry armed with a lance?

In cavalry there are three sizes of spears.
Of course the two ones hace a rather aesthetic (visual) change and a diference in stats against infantry and cavalry.
Lances are also 2 kinds! But in EDU units with the abillity to charge with the "norman" style have some extras in charge and in infantry frighting points!
So...Ghulam lancers or Roman cataphracts may also have lances but Norman, German and other "knights" that will apear a bit later in the game have some better stats!

I must have missed that post when it was recent, anyway they are of top quality.
I understand the cavalarii defensores will be light lancers for the roles of flanking charges and swift pursuit, much like the stratiotae of CBUR, right?

Yes Roman cavalry is in teh average of stats of other horsemen units of other factions!
For example they are better armored but there are few other horsemen with better melee stats.
The didferences apear better in Cavalarii Kursores (horsearchers).
Roman Kursores are worst archers than all steppe and islamic mercenary ones!
But in 60% of the cases Kursores are better armored and have better melee stats!
Creating the finall stats of each unit was and will be again a real Marathon!

[paleologos]

Roman Kursores are worst archers than all steppe and islamic mercenary ones!

I understand what you mean and why you say it, but you are assuming that Kursores were native troops.
I think the term "Kursores" was used to indicate a role in the fighting system of the ERE military and that a term like "Skythikoi" referred to the origin and recruitment method of the unit.
So I tend to believe that the same unit was both Kursores and Skythikoi at the same time, though I cannot know that for certain and I could be wrong about it.

In any case, good luck with your marathon!

[AnthoniusII]

I understand what you mean and why you say it, but you are assuming that Kursores were native troops.
I think the term "Kursores" was used to indicate a role in the fighting system of the ERE military and that a term like "Skythikoi" referred to the origin and recruitment method of the unit.
So I tend to believe that the same unit was both Kursores and Skythikoi at the same time, though I cannot know that for certain and I could be wrong about it.

In any case, good luck with your marathon!

You confussing the eras!
Emperor Leon VI in his Tactika has a diferent opinion than you!
Cavalry unit (stratiotae or cavalarii) description in Tactika:

Kursores are those who open the fight,
running before the rest of the formation ussing their bows.
Defensores are those who follow without brake their formation
marching in low speed to reinforce and support Kursores.

Macedonian Dynasty was the last that mercenaries were quite few compared to native troops!
In the middle of the 11th century though and mainly under Angeloi Emperors , native troops were minimised and gave their place to mercenaries.
That is where units like Latinikon , Skythike Hetaerea etc came in life! Also Turkish in origin troops that had settled in Asia Minor and became Chritians formed the part of range troops replacing native ones! That is when Murtatoi and Turkopulla (sons of Turks) apeared! In TGC era steppe warriors like Alans, Pechenegs and others are still troops under their leaders in their home armies! Only via diplomacy Romans managed to use them indirectly!

[paleologos]

I see, so skythikoi, turkopouloi and mourtatoi are not present in the era of TGC.
In that way it seems I was wrong.

I still don't believe I was wrong in my statement that the term "Koursores" was used as a reference to the role of a cavalry unit in the fighting system and not to the troop type.
Then again, they might not have the distinctions between their troops we have to make about them for the sake of M2TW game engine weaknesses:
Their professional troops were well trained in all the weapons (spear, mace, axe, spatha, paramerion, javelin, martzovarvoula, and bow) that might become tactically "relevant" in one combat situation or another.
And I don't see how a cavalryman would have trouble carrying all of those weapons on his horse.
So, the game roster distinction between Koursores and Defensores is a game necessity, as we can only give two weapon types to a unit, right?

The only meaningful difference equipment-wise between Koursores and Defensores that I can think of is that the Koursores would have to be light to run down routing enemies efficiently, while the Defensores might need to be better armored for durability in a combat situation as they might need to bail the Koursores out of trouble if they were to get caught by hostile light cavalry.

As a matter of fact the original text does not mention the types of weapons used by the Koursores or the Defensores specifically.
Only their battlefield roles:
If I were to use Acritae cavalry of the CBUR roster to harass enemy formations and chase down routers and all the while keep Pronoiars nearby to provide cover to the Acritae, would I not be using the Acritae as Koursores and the Pronoiars as defensores?

Paragraph 22 of the original text does not mention "bows" like you say in the translation caption.

However, I don't know how to translate the word "προκλάστας" of the original text.
Could that be a reference to equipment?

(P.S.: I don't mean to be antagonistic, I just need clarifications, as they might be useful for Titanium's historical accuracy.)