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Thread: Safavid - Faction Thread

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    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Safavid - Faction Thread

    I decided that the Safavid Empire deserves a thread all it's own, for Empire Total War. The Safavid Empire was one of the most powerful in the World at the time, and was the leader of Shi'a Islam, though by this date it had fallen on hard times.

    Technically, the Safavid Empire collapsed in 1722, and then was united under Nadir Shah Afshar, creating Afsharid Persia, then after their demise in 1779, the Qajars created a dynasty lasting until 1925.

    This Empire had been founded by Shah Ismail I in 1501, who reunited the various Persian speaking lands ruled by the Timurids into a cohesive state, and created the first native dynasty since the invasion of the Arabs. Ismail spread the borders far, and made Iran the greatest Shi'a Islamic state in the World. This period saw the Safavids at their greatest, and saw them already facing their rivals. The Uzbeks were driven from Khorasan, and Ismail campaigned into Central Asia against them, and they were no longer a threat to the Persians. To the West however, lay the Ottoman Empire, under the rule of the Great Sultan, Selim Yavuz. Selim feared the Shi'as of Eastern Anatolia and managed to get a jurist opinion that condemned the Shi'as, including Ismail and a man named Kizil-Bash as heretics and non-believers. In response, Ismail accused Selim of violence against fellow Muslims, and shedding innocent blood. So Selim moved eastwards, while Ismail went to meet him. At the same time Uzbeks again invaded the East, and Ismail was forced to fight a delaying withdrawal back into Persia. On 23 August, 1514, Selim decisively defeated Ismail at the Battle of Chaldiran. For this reason, the Ottomans gained most of Mesopotamia and parts of Western Iran, making Tabriz a border city, which compelled the Safavids to remove their capital to Isfahan in 1598.

    After the death of Ismail, and of Selim, the Turks and Persians continued to fight, under Shah Tahmasp, and Sultan Suleiman, called "the Magnificent,"and "the Grand Turk," by Europeans. Suleiman led several campaigns against Persia, in which the Persians traded space for time, and the wars were largely inconclusive, though Suleiman managed to gain Luristan, Azerbaijan, and Karabagh for the Ottoman Empire, including the city of Tabriz.

    Under Shah Abbas the Great, the Persians were able to re-gain many losses to the Ottomans, he siezed Baghdad, and after the a victory at Basra, extended his borders beyond the Euphrates. In 1611, Sultan Ahmed I formally ceded Shirvan and Kurdistan to the Persians. He then succeeded in driving the Portuguese from their holdings in Bahrain, Hormuz, and Bandar Abbas, opening the rich Persian Gulf to trade between the Persians and the Europeans. Meanwhile, while the Turks were busy fighting in Europe, during the Thirty Years War, Abbas attacked them and defeated them at Soltaniyeh, and recaptured Baghdad. Once the Turks were settled in Europe, they turned East and drove the Persians out of Baghdad in 1638, establishing the border between the two Empires. Abbas made the Persian Empire into a major power, once again.

    Unfortunately for the Persians, the successors of Shah Abbas were weak and ineffective, mirroring the Turks in the corruption that their rulers sunk into, neglecting the Government and preferring to pay more attention to wine and women. After the death of Abbas II in 1666, the Safavid Empire was disintegrating, the foolish determination of Shah Soltan Hosein to convert the Afghans to Shiism resulted in the defeat of the Persian Army by an Afghan Chieftain named Mir Wais Khan, whose son, Mahmud, marched across Persia and sacked Isfahan, proclaiming himself Shah, in 1722. The Afghans ran rampant across Persia until Nadir Shah Afshar led the resistance to victory at the Battle of Damghan, 29 September, 1729, in which the Afghans were driven from Persia. He essentially ruled for Tahmasp II, and served as regent for Abbas III (both Safavids) until he crowned himself Shah in 1736. He led the Persians into dazzling victories to the East, sacking Delhi and dragging the Peacock throne back to Persia.


    In 1747, Nadir Shah Afshar was assasinated, and the Safavids were restored to the throne, but the new Shah, Ismail III, lasted only until 1760, when Karim Khan overthrew the Safavids officially, and for good.

    After this, Persia was severely weakened, and fought a savage War against Catherine the Great of Russia, in 1796. This was because the Russians proclaimed a protectorate over the Kingdom of Georgia, which the Persians saw as their sphere of influence. In retaliation, Agha Mohammed Khan invaded Georgia and burned Tbilisi to the ground. The Russians in turn invaded Azerbaijan under the command of Valerian Zubov, who captured a number of important cites, but then Catherine the Great died, and her son withdrew the Russian troops and patched up a hasty peace with Persia, where Paul withdrew from the Southern Caucasus, though his son Alexander was to gain all of the disputed territory in 1813, after he defeated Fath Ali Shah Qajar, and his son Abbas Mirza, ending Persian vestiges of great power status.

    Last edited by Selim Yavuz; February 08, 2009 at 09:51 AM.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    really thanks for creating a thread about the safavids.although they weren`t the first iranian dynasty after the arabs..the first one were the samanians(not sasanian(quite different.))and after them many like kharazm shahyan and etc...though they were mighty(the safavids.) but the kharazm shahyan were so much stronger(strongest iranian kingdoms after arabs...they were the ruling kingdoms when the mongols started their invasian to iran.)wich existed before the safavids.
    i myself like the afsharian kingdom much much more as it was them(nader shah.)who conquered the india and was as mighty as even the russian kingdom was afraid of him

  3. #3
    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
    really thanks for creating a thread about the safavids.although they weren`t the first iranian dynasty after the arabs..the first one were the samanians(not sasanian(quite different.))and after them many like kharazm shahyan and etc...though they were mighty(the safavids.) but the kharazm shahyan were so much stronger(strongest iranian kingdoms after arabs...they were the ruling kingdoms when the mongols started their invasian to iran.)wich existed before the safavids.
    i myself like the afsharian kingdom much much more as it was them(nader shah.)who conquered the india and was as mighty as even the russian kingdom was afraid of him
    Surely, I couldn't believe that countries like Somalia had threads, yet the Safavids did not, despite being infinitely greater, so I decided to rectify the situation and make the thread myself, though I have little knowledge of how Persians fought at that time. Thanks for the info. I had not known that there were Iranian dynasties after the Timurids, yet before the Safavids. Perhaps they did not rule all of Iran? I knew of smaller princes and rulers, claiming the title "Shah" but not claiming to be Shah of all Iran.
    Last edited by Selim Yavuz; February 08, 2009 at 01:01 PM.

    "My home policy: I wage war; my foreign policy: I wage war. All the time I wage war."- Georges Clemenceau
    "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse." - Arthur Wellesley
    "A bullet that hits you in the back hurts no more than one that hits you in the chest." - Archduke Charles
    "A carpet is large enough to accommodate two sufis, but the world is not large enough for two Kings." - Yavuz Sultan Selim
    "Two wars cannot be waged with one army." -Prince Eugene of Savoy
    "They do not want to hear about the Grace of God? They will hear the grace of the cannon." - Prince Alfred Windischgrätz

  4. #4

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    no safavids were the first empire after the timurids but not the first dynasty after the arabs wich u said in u`r first post:"and created the first native dynasty since the invasion of the Arabs"
    samanians diden`t ruled whole the iran they only ruled some citys like bokhara(wich in english they call it bukhara or something.)wich is currently located in afghanistan.
    but kharazm shahyan(i think in english they kall it khwarazm shahyan or something.)not only ruled over iran itself but some more lands such as curent turkmanistan-afghanistan and so.
    Last edited by Illidan; February 08, 2009 at 01:14 PM.

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    persianfan247's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    very interesting, thank you
    They close my modication thread DWWTW ='( please help evryone.

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    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Quote Originally Posted by persianfan247 View Post

    Ahhh, excellent my friend, thank you for the links, that helps immensely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
    no safavids were the first empire after the timurids but not the first dynasty after the arabs wich u said in u`r first post:"and created the first native dynasty since the invasion of the Arabs"
    samanians diden`t ruled whole the iran they only ruled some citys like bokhara(wich in english they call it bukhara or something.)wich is currently located in afghanistan.
    but kharazm shahyan(i think in english they kall it khwarazm shahyan or something.)not only ruled over iran itself but some more lands such as curent turkmanistan-afghanistan and so.
    Oh, nevermind, I hadn't realized I put "after the Arabs" Thank you for correcting me.
    Last edited by Legio; February 11, 2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: back-to-back posts by same user

    "My home policy: I wage war; my foreign policy: I wage war. All the time I wage war."- Georges Clemenceau
    "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse." - Arthur Wellesley
    "A bullet that hits you in the back hurts no more than one that hits you in the chest." - Archduke Charles
    "A carpet is large enough to accommodate two sufis, but the world is not large enough for two Kings." - Yavuz Sultan Selim
    "Two wars cannot be waged with one army." -Prince Eugene of Savoy
    "They do not want to hear about the Grace of God? They will hear the grace of the cannon." - Prince Alfred Windischgrätz

  8. #8

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Excellent work Selim Yavuz on the first post of the thread. The Safavids were among the greatest of the Iranian Islamic dynasties, and left a deep mark on their region of the world.

    While I doubt EA will make them playable, I look forward to seeing the Safavids in ETW as well as the Afsharids on down to the Qajars. Very interesting and tragically misunderstood history.
    Trust in Jesus, always!

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    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shogun144 View Post
    Excellent work Selim Yavuz on the first post of the thread. The Safavids were among the greatest of the Iranian Islamic dynasties, and left a deep mark on their region of the world.

    While I doubt EA will make them playable, I look forward to seeing the Safavids in ETW as well as the Afsharids on down to the Qajars. Very interesting and tragically misunderstood history.
    Not a problem my friend, it was actually my pleasure, as I had wanted to see a thread about them as well, so I thought "Why shouldn't I just make one?" Since I could come up with no good reason, I did.

    As for the second bit, I fear you are right, I doubt they will be playable , but at least we will be able to see them, and fight them in this game. The Persians were sorely missed in both Rome (two provinces of Parthia didn't cut it) and MTW/MTW2, at least they were for me.

    "My home policy: I wage war; my foreign policy: I wage war. All the time I wage war."- Georges Clemenceau
    "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse." - Arthur Wellesley
    "A bullet that hits you in the back hurts no more than one that hits you in the chest." - Archduke Charles
    "A carpet is large enough to accommodate two sufis, but the world is not large enough for two Kings." - Yavuz Sultan Selim
    "Two wars cannot be waged with one army." -Prince Eugene of Savoy
    "They do not want to hear about the Grace of God? They will hear the grace of the cannon." - Prince Alfred Windischgrätz

  10. #10
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Some nice research so far, but please refrain from double posting. The "edit post" button is ont he bottom left-hand of your post.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Do you think it would be possible to play as the Safavids in the main campaign? Perhaps you can unlock it...
    In Soviet Russia, Party always finds u!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Man I tired to say : neither khwarezmian nor Safevid dinasty were persian. They all were turks!!!!!. Shah Ismail was Grand child of Uzun Hasan (AghKoyunlu ruler) but their culture were persian it is true.
    Most surely man is in loss,
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    persianfan247's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alibala View Post
    Man I tired to say : neither khwarezmian nor Safevid dinasty were persian. They all were turks!!!!!. Shah Ismail was Grand child of Uzun Hasan (AghKoyunlu ruler) but their culture were persian it is true.
    The Safavids may have orginally spoken Turkish but genetic research has proven that the majority of Azeris are in fact of Iranian or Caucasian descent.

    Go down to genetics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbai...#Turkification

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian...e_Azerbaijanis

    edit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18001303

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavids

    second edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...501_to_1736.29



    Units the Safavids could have are Tofongchis (musketeers) and Topchis (artillery-men)
    Last edited by persianfan247; March 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM.





  14. #14

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    yea azeris were of aryan decendent. they got turkified by the turks

  15. #15

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    you are wrong my brother!!! . Your azeris(not azeri turks) today live in Iran. yes they are persian. But azerbaijani people (living in north Iran and Azerbaijan Republic , living in Georgia) are turks. And our ancestors turks
    Most surely man is in loss,
    Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

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    persianfan247's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alibala View Post
    you are wrong my brother!!! . Your azeris(not azeri turks) today live in Iran. yes they are persian. But azerbaijani people (living in north Iran and Azerbaijan Republic , living in Georgia) are turks. And our ancestors turks

    Did you not read the anything from the links, Azeris in Azerbaijani are more closely related to their fellow Caucasians then to central Asian Turks(originally Turks would have looked Mongoloid since they originate from there)

    This is not saying that Azeris do not have Turkish blood its just that the people that have Turkish blood are a minority. Just like Turks from Turkey and Turkoman in other countries.

    So Azeris are mixed Caucasian-Iranian with a weak element of Turkish blood. They may speak Turkish and claim to have Turkish blood but genetically they are barely related to Turks, take pre-Roman Celtic Briton, I have read that the majority would probably not have been Celtic but had Celtic language and society imposed on them by Celtic invaders who formed a ruling elite. Genetic tests have also revealed that the English are something like 2% Anglo Saxon, 12% Viking and 80% Iberian( thats where people came from after the Ice age dudes.

    Also I would like you to note that I am not Iranian and I am in fact as far as I know(presumably not) Fully of British extraction and I live in New Zealand. I just happen to love middle eastern, central Asian and Indian history and I have a special interest in Iranian History, that is the only source of bias possible on my part in this debate.





  17. #17

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by persianfan247 View Post
    Did you not read the anything from the links, Azeris in Azerbaijani are more closely related to their fellow Caucasians then to central Asian Turks(originally Turks would have looked Mongoloid since they originate from there)

    This is not saying that Azeris do not have Turkish blood its just that the people that have Turkish blood are a minority. Just like Turks from Turkey and Turkoman in other countries.

    So Azeris are mixed Caucasian-Iranian with a weak element of Turkish blood. They may speak Turkish and claim to have Turkish blood but genetically they are barely related to Turks, take pre-Roman Celtic Briton, I have read that the majority would probably not have been Celtic but had Celtic language and society imposed on them by Celtic invaders who formed a ruling elite. Genetic tests have also revealed that the English are something like 2% Anglo Saxon, 12% Viking and 80% Iberian( thats where people came from after the Ice age dudes.

    Also I would like you to note that I am not Iranian and I am in fact as far as I know(presumably not) Fully of British extraction and I live in New Zealand. I just happen to love middle eastern, central Asian and Indian history and I have a special interest in Iranian History, that is the only source of bias possible on my part in this debate.
    Hi Persianfan . I unfortunately don't know medieval british history.
    About your words. I live in Azerbaijan. In fact historians have different minds about our ancestor. Yes you are wright that our people mixed. I have read that links. And I don't believe to all written there. Turks distributed in a large area. And not all they (we) are mongoloid like you say. For example Russian people call Cumans polovtsi. In translate it means blonde. As my English is very poor I can't say what is in my head . But believe me Turks who live in Iran and Azerbaijan are not persian.
    Respects
    Most surely man is in loss,
    Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    And do you heard anything about persian shovinism ? I am not nationalist. But I love my nationality (turks) and respect other nations. Persians all time say that azerbaijanis are their descendant.
    Most surely man is in loss,
    Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

  19. #19
    persianfan247's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    I appreciate that Iranians want to claim Azeris for their own for political reasons but.





    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian...r_developments

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish...al_populations


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en..._uids=16770078

    https://genographic.nationalgeograph...hic/atlas.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en..._uids=16770078

    https://genographic.nationalgeograph...hic/atlas.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic


    Anyway I don't think we're going to get anyway and this thread is meant to be for the Safavids who were Azeris, who speak Turkish. So we will leave it at that. Only research on the history of the Safavids and not their genetic origins.

    Perhaps you can help alibala, you don't happen to have any museums near you and a Digital camera available.





  20. #20

    Default Re: Safavid - Faction Thread

    I accept with Persianfan Safevid culture was persian culture. What materials are you interested?
    Most surely man is in loss,
    Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

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