I was just wondering about Dutch military attire in the Empire: Total War period. What color would Dutch soldiers and sailors be wearing in battle during the 1700's?
Egbert my guess would be red blue and white, similar to the late 18th centrury french uniforms.
They close my modication thread DWWTW ='( please help evryone.
The Dutch didn't have official colours untill the Napoleonic period, when they switched to black and blue. Colours before that varied from regiment and guard units.
For example, the Blue Guard wore... blue.
The Regiment de St. Amant Mariniers wore black.
Originally Posted by A.J.P. TaylorOriginally Posted by Miel Cools
Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.
Originally Posted by Jörg FriedrichOriginally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
Jajem ssoref is m'n korewE goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtompWer niks is, hot kawsones
From the early 1700´s until the 1740´s, the Dutch army followed the same lines in fashion as the French army.
Dutch infantry 1713
The Dutch horse and dragoons, had in most cases gray coats, but some regiments had red and blue coats. Dutch infantry had also, in most cases gray coats ( from white/light gray to medium gray ), a few regiments had red and blue coats. The Dutch guards had indigo blue coats with orange/red lining/cuffs. Scots troops in Dutch service, had red coats. Swiss regiments in Dutch service had indigo blue or red coats. Walloon troops, had green coats with red lining/cuffs. The Dutch artillery had dark blue coats with orange or red lining/cuffs.
From 1740`s the dutch army changed fashion to a more Prussian appearance, all infantery got dark blue coats, except the scottish troops which still had red coats. The horse kept their coat colors, with the exception that the gray coated regiments received white coats. Artillery had dark blue coats and red linings/cuffs.
Dutch infantry 1750´s
Dutch infantry 1748
Dutch cavalry 1780`s
Dutch marine 1770`s
Following this link will get you to the Netherlands section of the Vinkhuijzen collection of military uniforms at the website of the New York public library.
It contains a great deal of images of Dutch uniforms for different regiments and army sections.. There was no general uniform, but there seem to be a great deal of similarity, although there's plenty of difference in the details..
Here are a few I like.. I put them in spoiler tags, because they might otherwise clutter up the page..
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And ofcourse it goes on and on, but I think that gives a nice general indication of what Dutch troops looked like during the first half of the 18th century.. Clearly the dominant colours were red, white and blue, with a dash of beige/brown every now and then.. Plenty of material for mod makers in that database I'd think!
Under the patronage of his Estonian Eminence Trax
Is such a shame the guy who catalogued those prints had such bad handwriting.
The labelling at the bottom seems to have been translated literally by CA which is why we now have 'The Holland Guard Regiment' making its appearance, even though there never was such a regiment. However, there is a lot more information scrawled on those plates some of which I think actually identifies the regiments depicted by name. Its just that most of it is completely illegible, and unfortunately as far as I can see they didn't think to note the Regimental Number which would have been much easier to decipher and would have identified the unit for certain.
[It also doesn't help that the average Dutchman has absolutely no interest in the history of his country, so trying to get any useful information out of their records is like trying to get blood out of a stone. Not to mention trying to stop them vandalising their own historical battlefield sites.]
Some of the units you have identified above don't exist in the 1702 Regimental record, so they must either be new regiments or there has been some sort of re-designation. Regiments Leiden and Croye aren't listed as such, but I suspect that the Leiden and Croye are just the names of the regiments current colonels rather than the name of the Regiment. The Frisian Guard are listed as Infantry Regiment Nr 33 'Johan Willem Friso' but they were a foriegn corps and so may have grown a cavalry arm.
There are actually 7 Swiss Regiments listed Regimental Nr's 63,64,65,66,67,68 & 69 all but 68 had two battalions but none are shown as having Guard status. I was quite curious about the scrawl along the top of that print which I thought might actually say Kronprinz v. Prussien a. Nederlandshe. If so that could be the uniform of Regiment nr 53 which was a Prussian Regiment assigned to Dutch Service.
Likewise with 'The Holland Guard' prints, there is no regiment called 'The Holland Guard' in the records I have to hand, and I think the real clue to the regiments identify is in the scrawl at the top of the page. I can't make most of it out but it looks to me like colonels names again. All very frustrating, especially when compared to say an English regiment where you can simply look it up in the clothing book and find every detail of every uniform ever worn.]
Do you happen to have a later record copy of the 'Het staatse Leger' the extract I have is from 1702 so it only lists the regiments that existed during the War of the Austrian Succession.
Last edited by Didz; June 16, 2009 at 12:19 AM.
jarnomiedema, Great sources!
The biggest problem I have with ETW re-textures is finding modders prepared to go the extra mile to get it right. Most work on the same principle as you, that anything which approximates, or looks cool, is good enough. So if I'm not careful I end up with all sorts of weird uniforms in my battles.
As far as the Dutch wearing blue and orange are concerned, this would have been the early uniform of Regiment Nr4 'The Blue Guard' which as far as I know wore the Royal Livery of the House of Orange. The rest of the Dutch National Regiments wore grey coats with facings in the regimental colour, and some of the foriegn regiments wore coats in red or blue depending on their nationality. From 1730 onwards there was a general shift towards uniforms of the Prussian rather than French design, with Blue being adopted by most regiments and orange being replaced with red.
Last edited by Didz; June 21, 2009 at 03:40 AM.
I am fine with historical realism when possible, but considering colors I do believe that its good to be able to distinguish each country from each other.
Its one of those things where gameplay and history clash.
In some cases I am concerned about colors, like when I see Parthians or the Byzantine empire march around in pink. And usually in more traditional strategy games where the player color part of a unit is handled poorly, like turning the sleeves of a modern soldier into the player color. Might as well make it the entire jacket then, or give them scarfs or a barret in the player color.
Thats why I am a bit annoyed about pants in empire total war sometimes. I prefer them all wearing the same color pants when wearing a uniform. Light infantry, regiments of horse and some other units dont have that and use two colors. Thats fine for less formal units but the uniforms of these units seem quite formal so it makes sense for them to wear the same color of pants.
If they want variation it would be better to have some wear no hat.