DHRR v0.8 Previews

[Dimitri_Harkov]

Sure brother!

Just send me a PM explaining what you want exactly and I'll cook something up for you.

btw: Any plans for Empire: Total War?

Cheers,
D.

[AnthoniusII]

Sure brother!

Just send me a PM explaining what you want exactly and I'll cook something up for you.

btw: Any plans for Empire: Total War?

Cheers,
D.

The mod that we are prepairing will act as a ETW mod quide!!
See here... The ETW version will be more or less like it but with the new features of the game(Naval battles espesially)...

[hawk079]

This new version for the hereditary titles sounds great! I perticulary like trait for "House Of ......". Will that trait remain if the charter becomes the new faction leader? And you must forgive me for asking when this new version might be available?

[konny]

This new version for the hereditary titles sounds great! I perticulary like trait for "House Of ......". Will that trait remain if the charter becomes the new faction leader?

Yes, of course. Faction leaders and -heirs can inherit titles like any other family member too.

And you must forgive me for asking when this new version might be available?

This will take some time. We will add some 100 to 150 new titles to dHRR, including the historical holders, coat of arms, historical description etc. pp. To these will be added a large number of clerical titles plus dozend of new offices. This plus all other changes to dHRR for the next version.

[pchalk]

i have a question about a family tree feature (figure this might be intertwined with hereditary titles). In the game when you use a princess to "steal" another faction family member you marry him in to your family. However I have noticed the children of this new family member do not bear his family name. Is there historical accuracy behind this? if not, Will this be changed in the coming versions of the mod?

jw

[konny]

This sounds more like a limitation of the engine: The family name of this new member is not valid for the faction he has married into (for example a Scots FM "MacDougall" marrying into faction Milan). That way the engine cannot use his name for his sons.

This has nothing to do with this title system. The titles are not tied to family names but to lineage. In this example, if the character would be member of a House but not holder of the respective title, he would instantly acquire this title when marrying into another faction because the title had not existed in said faction.

If he had a title already he would keep it when changing factions, but his old faction would have a new holder of this title (his son or brother or any other relative of him). If he was the last one of his family the title would fall back to the Crown to be created anew.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

How will this affect turn-times?

[konny]

This is triggered by EDCT not the script, so it shouldn't reduce turn significantly.

[konny]

True Bloodline

In dHRR we seemed to have been able to solve one of the most annoying features of M2TW: The way the heir is chosen by the engine. We are still not able to change the already selected heir – what makes sense when you take into account that you are able to marry a faction heir to one of the roving princesses, but we are able to influence the decision of the engine far enough to say that in most occasions we will be able to make the title held by the faction leader the same way hereditary as any other title you can acquire on the map. An example:

The full family tree of this English campaign had two more branches with never less than 10 family members alive. But as you can see, we had one, two, three, four, five Norman kings and heirs in a row.

That way, strange lines of succession in which a “nobody” from the far end of the family tree becomes heir even though the king has four sons of age, should be a thing of the past in the next version of dHRR. Succession should be logical in the sense it would have been handled by the historical counterpart of the respective faction. In most occasions this would be by hereditary lineage. This would also include maternal lineage, so you should be careful of whom you marry your princesses to. Holding titles, lots of them, could influence the lineage too. In some factions, like Lower Lorraine for example, holding specific titles would give a good chance for becoming the next heir.

Royal Offices

Those kings that come to power by birth right certainly need help in running their empires. As such you are able to appoint royal offices to your family members and generals in dHRR, such as Royal Chancellor and Royal Marshall. In dHRR 0.8 these offices will be individualized for each faction, according to what offices existed in the High Middle Ages in that faction.

This is, for example, the Custodus Angliae, a transferable office that becomes available when the King of England is absent from his island. Other offices are held by livelong appointment, or they are tied to certain titles. Some might get unlocked later in the game, for example England would not have a High Constable or High Marshall under a Norman king. And some offices might even be held by spawned generals. This first of all applies to chancellors, which often were clerics or members of the lower nobility – so, not the kind of characters that is represented by the members of the family tree.

Spawned characters will appear complete with random name and random traits.

Characters' Titles

Characters will get their title as part of their names. This is nothing special so far, because it is just an epithet to the title trait. What is special is that we have implemented a titles’ ranking that prevents lower ranking titles that are inherited at a later point in the game to overwrite higher ranking ones. In this example, when Robert would inherit the title of an Earl of Kent he would still be called “Dux Normanniae”. Only when he became king he would change his title into “Rex Anglorum”.

This system of titles will also apply to faction leaders, who will no longer have fixed titles (like “King”) but would adopt those titles. As such a faction leader of England would always be called “Rex Anglorum”, unless by chance he acquired a higher ranking title what would be one of the two Emperor-titles (Germany or Byzantium). More important would be this system for factions which leaders hold titles that are ranking below “King”. For example Portugal will start the game as a county but might develop into a kingdom, displayed by the title of the faction leader. Leaders of German factions all have titles ranking below king. They might not only acquire the German Crown and the corresponding title (now without still being called ‘Duke’ anymore), but also others like “King of Jerusalem” or Latin “Emperor of Byzantium”.

Scotland Revised

England is not alone on the British Isles. Scotland is still there and both will the start the game at war with each other, like they actually were in 1080. Amongst the Scottish family members you will find Edgar of Wessex, the last Anglo-Saxon King of England. If Scotland feels strong enough she can sent Edgar into England to (re-)claim his crown. This will give him an enormous boost in popularity and command because the Anglo-Saxons in England will be desperately waiting for someone to save them from the greedy Normans. But doing so will turn the normal border feud between Scotland and England into a war of live and death.

When Scotland failed to do so as long as Edgar is alive, it will still be possible for any of his sons, or the three sons that his sister had with Scottish King Malcolm, to claim the Crown of England.

And what would a Scottish King be without his Highlanders! Here we have the new the Gaelic units, available in Scotland (save for Edinburgh) and Ireland. You see, there are no more kilts and blue faces and the nobility is much Norse, who still controlled the Irish coast and Western Scotland.

[AnthoniusII]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
Keep going with that!!!+rep!
[edit]Such a bloodline could bring to live Byzantine royal families and could be
a reason for civil war if the heirs are underage!!!!
I would officialy request your contribution in to Great Conflicts mod were civil wars
must have many reasons to happen and heir can be one of them!!!

[toluas]

Wow! Amazing work.

The Bloodline thing, or rather the seemingly random pick of heir, is one of the most annoying things in MTWII. If you managed to get rid of this, you cannot be praised high enough.

I like your office and title system. And you did a very good job of making Scotland not just a slightly stronger rebel force which is conquered by the English early on, but representing scottish claims to the english throne.

Wonderful! +rep

Forgive me for asking (I will just ask this one time, though), is there any rough outline as to when we might see 0.8?

[Giovi]

wonderful work keep up the good work

[Nevada]

Very nice work.

My favorite mod is getting more and more interesting with every version.

[konny]

Forgive me for asking (I will just ask this one time, though), is there any rough outline as to when we might see 0.8?

No date so far. We have tons of new stuff planned for dHRR, but we don't have decided so far what will make it into 0.8 and what will be a matter of a future release (0.9 and 1.0).

[Icefrisco]

Amazing work!

With the bloodlines, are you guys considering having noble family bloodlines similar to EB?

[konny]

With the bloodlines, are you guys considering having noble family bloodlines similar to EB?

We already have (will have in 0.8) two kinds of noble families: The "House of ..." ("House of Blois" for example) and the "Royal ..." ("Royal French" for example).

The difference to the EB "gentes" would be that our families are conditional, that is you would need to be the son of a member of one of the Houses/Royalities or acquire the title yourself. This also follows that one character can be a member of several Houses, but also member of no House at all.

The bloodline is tied to it, of course. Being "Royal French" seriously raises the chance of a character to become next faction heir, even when not son of the King. But the son of the King would also be "Royal French" too, so no chance for the far off relative as long as any sons of the King are of age.


In smaller factions it is even more straight foreward. For example for Swabia the "Royal" House would be the "House of Schwaben", what is also the House tied to holding the title Duke of Swabia. This title can also be acquired by, say, a FM of Burgundy upon conquest of the respective province.

While being a member of the "House of Schwaben" seriously raises the chances to become FH in faction Swabia it does not the same for FMs in faction Burgundy.

[PubliusKhannus]

utterly brilliant, the very best mods get made for Kingdoms, you guys get spoiled.

[eatme]

Very promising preview indeed. It hints that lotsa cool features are in-store and much work-inprogress. Great news! Thanks for the update and repup =)

Succession should be logical in the sense it would have been handled by the historical counterpart of the respective faction. In most occasions this would be by hereditary lineage. This would also include maternal lineage, so you should be careful of whom you marry your princesses to. Holding titles, lots of them, could influence the lineage too. In some factions, like Lower Lorraine for example, holding specific titles would give a good chance for becoming the next heir.

So what are you aiming at ? That the blood lineage would be preserved or that the most ranking member of the family tree (more titles and etc) becomes next-in-line ?

Also, I see titles in Latin which is proper and even cool but has an alien sound to it so-to-speak. So, all titles will be in Latin ?

Another question will there be many titles (meaning ancillaries) that can be transferred to another character ?

[wolfen_84]

That's great! my gratitude!

[konny]

So what are you aiming at ? That the blood lineage would be preserved or that the most ranking member of the family tree (more titles and etc) becomes next-in-line ?

Definitly the bloodline will be the foremost to be leaders. But it will be possible that a really powerful character might size the crown for himself (but he would realy need a couple of important titles, two counties won't do), in particular when he is tied to the royal family by marriage.

Also, I see titles in Latin which is proper and even cool but has an alien sound to it so-to-speak. So, all titles will be in Latin ?

Those that would be accurate in Latin, yes. I would not be happy with all titles in English. Having them in their native language would be fine too, but that would require us to research those names in Polish, Portugese or Hungarian too.

So, Latin is in fact easyer in researching, because we (usualy) don't just have those titles in Latin, but we also have them in the form that was in use around 1100. That is we simply take them from the sources, as long as we find any.

Another question will there be many titles (meaning ancillaries) that can be transferred to another character ?

Titles will usualy not be transferable. But we haven't implemented all titles, may be we come along one that usualy was moved around. Some offices will be, sometimes.