Do you read ancient texts? RTR needs you!

[Simetrical]

Rome: Total Realism, as many of you doubtless know, is the most popular modification for RTW, with hundreds of thousands of downloads of each of its latest versions. As the name suggests, we're dedicated first and foremost to historical accuracy—but to achieve our goals properly, we need to know what's historical and what isn't. Of course, many of our team members have a historical bent, but there's no substitute for specific primary sources or sufficiently reputable secondary sources; general knowledge isn't helpful for deflecting outside criticism, although it can serve as a useful baseline.

So essentially, what I'm asking is this. Anyone who wants to help us out should, in the course of reading any text dealing with Europe, the Middle East, western Russia, North Africa, or any regions in that vicinity during the period of 400 BCE to 100 CE (substantially larger than our scope, but still useful) should note down any specific information they see that could possibly help us. Useful areas include, but are not limited to: tactics used in any kind of conflict; formations; army composition; armament; territorial boundaries; specific names (to make the names of in-game characters more accurate); ships; and resources that a specific region produces.

For every note, be sure to include the exact position in the text you're reading (as precise as possible), the translation you're using, what general category of info this falls under (from the above list, or anything similarly helpful), the date, and the relevant peoples involved (e.g., Romans, Helvetii). All this should be easy to jot down as you're reading a text. A summary of the pertinent info would also be very useful, particularly in the case of works with no good online translation, but it's not required if it's inconvenient. If you're using an online translation, copy and paste the relevant text along with your note and provide a link to the page you got it from.

The notes will be posted online here, where we'll make sure your name is attached to the notes you've given us. Additionally, you will be credited in the RTR readme.

If you're interested, please post your sources here. We truly appreciate your efforts.

-Simetrical

[_Sparta_]

i believe u can read ancient texts online for free, cso there isnt any copyright on it. the RTR members could read the texts themselves. if u enter the name of an ancient text in google, im sure ull find it.
btw, u should try Historiae by Tacitus.

[Khelvan]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cache/p...eco-Roman.html

There you can find any number of ancient texts.

[Simetrical]

Originally posted by _Sparta_
i believe u can read ancient texts online for free, cso there isnt any copyright on it. the RTR members could read the texts themselves.

Of course, we could do that, but the team members are mostly busy with coding, skinning and the like. Since more people can look over historical texts than can code or skin, it's more efficient for us to use those willing to go through historical works but unable to code to do history, while using those who can code or skin to code or skin.

-Simetrical

[MeKtHep]

Well i did read the book of the dead (papyrus of ani) dont no who translated it
but i think i cant help you with this

but maybe i can ask a friend 1 know some one from oxford so ill see what i can do :rolleyes

[Caius Britannicus]

I've read all of Polybius and Livy as well as Caesars Civil War and Conquest of Gaul. I doubt that I can be much help though.

[Pausanias]

I will be only too happy to help, at the moment I have works by people like Herodotus, Plutarch, Caesar, and Tacitus, as well as a few others.

I think it would be helpful if there was one place to post, for example, a sub Forum at the RTR site. As it would allow us to see what information has already been given to you, so you don't get 20 people giving the same piece of info, when they could have posted something different instead. And you would have one main place to look, instead of keep having to check here, your pm box, email etc. It would also allow others who are interested, to see where people are getting their facts from, and so allow them to learn something new. Just an idea. If not, I will post here, as I spend a fair amount of time here at the TWC.

[RGB]

You want me to read some stuff for you, I'll be happy to help.

[Americanus Supremus]

I would be glad to help. Im currently reading The history of ceasars tenth legion. Ive read many other books that I have in my library but its not extensive. What I do have is alot of is time and a good internet connection. I also know a little of Phyrus and the romans that ooposed him. Manius Curius and Cornelius Lentlus (spelling may be off) Troop make up. I can also help code as I mod extensivley RTR since its inception. Can mode almost every text file, but cannot skin or model. I dont have the proper applications. Im also taking a trip to Rome and some other Italian cities here in the next month. I could search for info there as I will be hitting as many historical sites as possible. Send me a message if you would like my help.

BTW thanks for all the goodwork that has been done so far. But I have to say I mod the game more then I actually play it. LOL :><

[Simetrical]

Sorry, I forgot about this thread. I&#39;ve now enabled email notification, so it shouldn&#39;t happen again.

All of you, just start taking notes and posting them here. I&#39;ll start compiling them soon enough (likely Sunday), so you can see who&#39;s doing what. For now, I have to go to sleep.

Originally posted by Americanus Supremus
But I have to say I mod the game more then I actually play it.

I can&#39;t remember the last time I played RTW for fun. . . .

-Simetrical

[Lucius Caecina]

I&#39;ve had to study most texts prepping for a degree. It would be useful if you actually asked a pertinent question. There is an amzingly useful digressio in the appendices of Josephus&#39; Jewish War, which details the daily routine and general affairs of a Roman legion in the time of Nero (post Marius in game terms). Actually it does kind of suggest the Jews as a faction in their own right - but I guess rebels are better. There are also digressions on the Geography of Palestine.

Josephus - the Jewish War - G.A Williamson

Excursus III - "...The infantry are armed with breastplate and helmet and carry a blade on either side [on skin possibly?]; of these by far the longer is the one on the left, the other being no more than 9 inches long. The general&#39; s bodyguard of picked infantry carry lance and buckler [not sword and scutum, apparently], the other other units javelin and long shield ... equipment is exactly the same for the general&#39;s mounted bodyguard as for the other cavalry units..."

Etcetera. Hope that is some help, at all.

[Simetrical]

Thanks for the help. Josephus is a bit after our time period, but some of his material could certainly be useful to us. For some of The Wars of the Jews, the Jews were an independent state—in particular, from 165 to 63 BCE or thereabouts. As of RTR&#39;s start in 280 BCE, Judaea was controlled by the Ptolemaics; it later changed hands to the Seleucids, who later lost control of the province in the Maccabeean Revolt. Eventually, the Romans conquered the Jews, and they remained in control with the Jews revolting periodically until about 70-71 CE, when the Bar Kochba Rebellion finally provoked them to level the Temple in Jerusalem and eventually exile most of the Jews. In any case, I can&#39;t find any appendices to The Wars of the Jews—neither Perseus.com nor The Gutenberg Project has any. Just seven books and that&#39;s it.

-Simetrical

[Lucius Caecina]

I phrased that poorly. The translator of my edition took his massive digressions out, and stuck them in as appendices.

[Simetrical]

Ah, I see. Know where the appendices were in the unedited text?

By the way, I&#39;ve started adding historical texts to a thread in the RTR Team-Only Forum. You can&#39;t post there, but you can view, so you know what sort of stuff I want.

-Simetrical

[Ificratis]

I know enough good ancient Greek military history. If becomes more specific the information who you ask, I would be glad to help.
So I&#39;am waiting...

[Simetrical]

We&#39;re mostly interested in sources, not just knowledge. I&#39;m sure you know a lot about Greek military history, but we&#39;d like to be able to show the sources to others as well. So if you happen to read anything useful, we&#39;d be glad to have a specific citation.

-Simetrical

[Ificratis]

I have a lot of books where speaking for Greek and roman history. Specifically military. But many of them are not in the English and it is difficult to translate and upload all these information. I say this because I saw that you ask precisely the words that have been written and internet resourses too. I can however propose some books. Also I can -in the limits of my possibilities ,of course-, to give you valid information on that season.

[Simetrical]

Well, I do need at least a rough summary of the Greek, but you don&#39;t have to be terribly precise in the translation. Sources that I can double-check myself are of course preferred, but they aren&#39;t necessary.

-Simetrical

[Ificratis]

Ancient greek Flame-Throwers
Passage from Jowett&#39;s translation of Thucydides Book 4:
The Boeotians immediately sent for javelin-men and slingers from the Malian Gulf. They had been joined after the battle by the Corinthians with two thousand hoplites, and by the Peloponnesian garrison which had evacuated Nisaea, as well as by some Megarians. They now marched against Delium and attacked the rampart, employing among other military devices an engine, with which they succeeded in taking the place; it was of the following description. They sawed in two and hollowed out a great beam, which they joined together again very exactly, like a flute, and suspended a vessel by chains at the end of the beam; the iron mouth of a bellows directed downwards into the vessel was attached to the beam, of which a great part was itself overlaid with iron. This machine they brought up from a distance on carts to various points of the rampart where vine stems and wood had been most extensively used, and when it was quite near the wall they applied a large bellows to their own end of the beam, and blew through it. The blast, prevented from escaping, passed into the vessel which contained burning coals and sulphur and pitch; these made a huge flame, and set fire to the rampart, so that no one could remain upon it. The garrison took flight, and the fort was taken. Some were slain; two hundred were captured; but the greater number got on board their ships and so reached home.

[Ificratis]

From Arrianos we know that the Greek archers had 25 - 30 arrows each one. Threw 4 - 5 arrows in a minute with beam of action 300-350 m.