BB 4.24 <28/10/12>

[Patient English]

Taiji,

Very small feedbackette: The English Bill men seem much reduced in stats and capacity (relative to Armoured Spearmen defensively and Mailed Foot Knights offensively) but are quite expensive to build. In my battles so far they seem quite ineffective, even with armour upgrades. Any reason for de-powering them? They seem only OK vs Cavalry, to.

John

[Madigan]

Hi Taiji,

i installed Agis Tournas's minimod compilation, which contains your BB mod's 21/08 version.
Can i update to the new 06/09 version, or i must reinstall everything?

06/0909 - Extract this data13.rar to '..\mods\dlv_ext\data' - This is the latest 'approved by me' update.
- Playtesting is showing some significant changes to campaign gameplay brought on by previous patch. This is the 19/08/09 patch for those like me that prefer the old system. Note: It will not reverse all of the changes of the previous patch - reinstalling DLV is recommended.

What exactly is this "changes to campaign gameplay"?

[Taiji]

Characters being able to move much further than previously is one thing I remember. Anyway the 6.2 beta is out, that might be the best bet for you

[The Longbowman]

Mr Taiji - I was wondering. Do you have the ability to add formations to the standard battle formations menu?

[Taiji]

I don't know how that would be done, presumably it would take some editing of the UI since the existing formations have icons. I don't know if it is even possible to add more formations.

But you could edit any existing formation by editing descr_formations.txt. The formation at the bottom of the list is for AI stakes placement, I think it can't be accessed by the player.

[The Longbowman]

Thank you kind sir.

[Taiji]

I've been experimenting and testing, trying to get generals to upgrade to late generals but I can't find a way to do it.

Well, apart from including a second EDU which the player can switch to when they want...

[repman]

@Taiji
I do not see any differences between the data files from 18.09 and 21.08...do i miss something ?
Several flag officer are still in stealth mode
Certain walls of forts are not attackable by ladder assault... probably a building problem

Have any people seen the AI using Germanicus5 stakes script ? I have no time to test this...

repman

[Taiji]

@Taiji
I do not see any differences between the data files from 18.09 and 21.08...do i miss something ?
Several flag officer are still in stealth mode
Certain walls of forts are not attackable by ladder assault... probably a building problem

Have any people seen the AI using Germanicus5 stakes script ? I have no time to test this...

repman

Agis added a load of stuff for the 21.08 update. Probably much of my stuff would be unchanged. I just wasn't happy with a tiny bit of the additions/bugfixes (character movement ~100% increase..) so I put 19.08 back up. So with my work there is no difference. I didn't check exactly what had changed with 21.08. The georgian textures fix only affects battle_models.

It would help if you give me a clue which flagbearers you've noticed are invisible.

Forts do typically offer very few places to dock equipment, honestly though, no idea on that one. Raising hit points, changing fire rates and missile weapon values, etc., I don't really see how they would affect it.

AI stakes should be working fine. They deploy as soon as they're in the formation I set up, which they switch to right after the battle starts. This prevents them from deploying during initial contact, which frequently happened before I changed it. Also they deploy only if the AI army has no cavalry themselves. This is because the AI exterminates himself on his own stakes since it can only 'see' stakes if the player's troops are close to them. The AI generals tend to make or break the battle for the AI, it's very dissappointing to have one suicide on your pikes but on his own stakes is just too much.

So expect to see AI stakes in the field when attacking an army where you have cav and the AI doesn't, except when they are defending in siege, or defending an ambush.

A possible improvement to make would be a strength measurement condition. To measure strength against attacking player before deciding to deploy stakes. Which would avoid the silly looking initial deployment of stakes which the AI army then walks through to attack you. But I figure they lose nothing except maybe a bit of self respect...

[Taiji]

New update ready for 6.2, enjoy

[Kjertesvein]

I got the game up and running, and I have jet too smell the stench of CTD whooh hooo!!

Im playing as the turks, and I see that this Late era unit: Qapukulu, cost about 5500. Then it's one of the earliest melee cavalry unit, Hasham cost around 2000. The Q. unit got 35 defence, and the H. around 27-30. But the attack is mind gobling, H. unit have close to 27(attack. 14/charge. 13) charge, but Q(a.14/c.6). have less then 20 charge. That looks insane, and Q. is only a handfull better. I tested them both to attack me, 2 seperate arab spears(gold armour) to defend themself, and let these 2 turkish unit hack it down, and it was pretty much even. In the "realm', I wouldnt offer so much, and whait for so long to have something which is allmost even.

I have seen one of such nature at the ERE too.

Qapukulu:


Hasham:



It's crazy.

[Taiji]

Good point, thanks for the feedback. I'll sort it for next update.

If you want it fixed right now here it is: export_descr_unit.txt

edit: BTW I think you mean 'mind-boggling'...

edit:

6.2's working well it seems. I've been playing a HRE campaign for about 30 turns. Some nice action from venice about 20 turns in saw me lose my kaiser and bologne, after 3 successive armies besieged and assaulted it. Civil war has broken out which has floored my gov points (-30 total). But on the whole things are going well. I've taken Bern, Prague, Lubeck, Bremen, Hamburg and Magdeburg. But I'm spread pretty thin, I see the potential to lose up to 4 settlements pretty rapidly if I can't find some system to defend.

And presently that's all I think I need to do, consolidate. I have alliances with quite a few factions, giving them military access in case they need to crusade through my land at some point. But I have Venice, they sent a large force up to Vienna. I hired some mercs to top up the garrison using a rebelling general parked outside the settlement. The Vienese ran when they saw what they were up against, those mercs were a waste of money.

Then I have to remember France and Denmark, I have bad relations with both. France is looking for an opening near Hohenstaffen and denmark has parked a full stack by Lubeck. Both Hungary and Poland are sat on my borders but with reasonable relations or better - I'm hoping I don't look, or become, weak enough to appear attractive.

edit:

Not happy with these cav charge mechanics, working on improvement. Also don't like these pathfinding issues in sieges, very annoying at times. Never noticed them before, but anyway I'll try to find a fix.

edit:

New Update:

Removed buggy charge percentage 28.0 - 0.8, reduced hitrate 1.75 -1.5, raised mount mass +.1-.3, improved charge for small and no shield, +1 and +2.

Very slightly less lethal charging but with good penetration and a bonus for small and no shield.

Also removes the bug with all it's craziness.

Means AI cav are more likely to be able to reform quickly and charge again.

Also cav will not be able to easily charge through allied troops anymore.

Melee should take a little longer (just a little) which amounts to a little buff for missile and well placed cav charges.

edit:

Updated for use with Shaxx's work. His Text Overhaul is essential and since I've rewritten the mil level 1, 2, 3 and 4 events and I'm using his work as a base, I'll have to update when he changes the event text, which is not a problem

edit:

I've had several battles recently where the AI totally sucked. Stupid AI moving his army up close to mine then stopping to get raped by missiles, idle bastards. Is this happening to anyone else?

Even with this happening my HRE campaign is going very badly (). It's around 1197 and I've just been attacked by denmark, france, hungary and venice in the same turn. I was already at war with venice, the rest chose a single turn to strike. 4 of my settlements besieged and only 2 where I can defeat the besiegers without resorting to defending. There's also 1 siege defence where I will probably lose, my capital! Plus I'm still coping with civil war, my family only has daughters, deep in recession, forced to accept war draft, 0 gov points and 28 mil points.

This is certainly the most challenging campaign I've played with DLV, though I'd imagine factions with less bordering nations are having an easier time.

[Madigan]

Taiji, there is a typo in your latest download (BB 2.32), at least i think it's a typo.

The "Campaign" folder is named "Campaigns" in the Data\Worls\Maps folder.

[Taiji]

Thanks for letting me know, Madigan

It would have prevented my recent work on mercs being implemented. I'm happy with how it's working out, mercs feel ... unreliable

edit:

I think I've worked out what was causing the crappy AI for me, sometimes high ranking generals make the AI act very strange. Like in one of the battles in question the AI was using shield-wall. The AI army only properly activated when I sniped the general. ... interesting problem...

[Omar Nelson B.]

Yeah I have tried it out some. Year 1203 about. I have only fought Rebs thus far but I must say that the Ai is hot and cold...example, I was ambushed(on the battle map not the strat map) one battle which I won by the skin of my teeth and then other battles the ai will stop and just let my welsh bowmen stomp face then after the beating they charge?!?! This has only occured once though. Other than that my only other gripe is that my soldiers seem unsure on weather to charge or just stand around after I've ordered them to charge. Only seems to be a slight hesitation tho.

Side note: is there a way to take out the Fire arrows that stay in the ground for a long time?

[Taiji]

Did the AI have a character general on that battle where they went idle and let you shoot them?

About fire arrows... no idea, sorry. You could try asking in the modding forums...

About hesitation... it could be a pathfiding issue but I think there is some hesitation for not having much experience, I could be wrong there.

[Kjertesvein]

Good point, thanks for the feedback. I'll sort it for next update.

cool

edit:

Updated for use with Shaxx's work. His Text Overhaul is essential and since I've rewritten the mil level 1, 2, 3 and 4 events and I'm using his work as a base, I'll have to update when he changes the event text, which is not a problem

the Text O. Mod 0.85 is in 6.2, so I don't see why you should not include the last patch in your, if legal that is.

This is certainly the most challenging campaign I've played with DLV, though I'd imagine factions with less bordering nations are having an easier time.

This is exactly the problem with playing with the taiji edb stuff. It's realistic, but it's too hard to play with HRE/France/Milan/Venice, and to easy to play with Norway/Egypt/Moors/Sicely, etc.

How can this be regulated?

--------------------

I obeserve in North western europe, where I allways play time and time again, that factions allways attack a certin way. It's like the campaign map have a road map layed out for each faction to behave. Denmark allways conquer sweden and york, before thinking about norway. Scotland allways conquer Wales. There is no exeptation. Are there special settlements they will attack, 'allways'? If so, they should represent historical, as opposed to what m2tw historiens think (sami axemen).

------------------------

Another bug is the abandoning of the timer limit, when AI is attacking your settlement. You can basicaly win every single match with the help of a total 2 peasants. 1. Let the general unit attack the ram. 2. While the second guy sneaks out the back door. 3. The enemy will hold the fort well, but for some reason, you will win a 'Close win', when the timer/hour glass is up.

How to fix:

1. One way or another, make sure the hour glass/timer is off in siege defence battles, or force it of in every match.
2. When you rally out of a siege defence, you can hit them, and they can hit you back. If your troops are outside when the timer/hour glass is up, then they win. If all your troops are inside, then it's a 'Tie'. If you can reverse this, then it's the best sollution. If you leave town, and they hold it, then they have won.
3. Find some way that all the AI units, or some, will go after you instead of hoding the town square.

[Taiji]

the Text O. Mod 0.85 is in 6.2, so I don't see why you should not include the last patch in your, if legal that is.

I don't want to. It only makes more convenience for less technical people, they need the practise. Plus it means they don't go to his thread, are less likely to give him feedback, etc.

This is exactly the problem with playing with the taiji edb stuff. It's realistic, but it's too hard to play with HRE/France/Milan/Venice, and to easy to play with Norway/Egypt/Moors/Sicely, etc.

How can this be regulated?

Play harder. I'm thinking about starting again with mine, I can see I did a load of stuff wrong. People that don't want this level of challenge already have 6.2. Although it would be nice to balance it out to make the less accessible factions harder too. I'm actually considering crippling a neighbour next time around... I mean, imagine a world where we don't have to say to experienced players "don't attack ai nations in the first 30 turns" ...heaven

I observe in North western europe, where I allways play time and time again, that factions allways attack a certin way. It's like the campaign map have a road map layed out for each faction to behave. Denmark allways conquer sweden and york, before thinking about norway. Scotland allways conquer Wales. There is no exeptation. Are there special settlements they will attack, 'allways'? If so, they should represent historical, as opposed to what m2tw historiens think (sami axemen).

CAI stuff, no idea about that.

Another bug is the abandoning of the timer limit, when AI is attacking your settlement. You can basicaly win every single match with the help of a total 2 peasants. 1. Let the general unit attack the ram. 2. While the second guy sneaks out the back door. 3. The enemy will hold the fort well, but for some reason, you will win a 'Close win', when the timer/hour glass is up.

I suppose I should include a note somewhere telling noobs to stop using the battle timer, I expect experienced players of m2tw know this already. I'll do that, good idea

edit:

Further investigation of the AI issue. I've tried several different people's BAI and get the same results.

The only change in behaviour I've managed to cause has been achieved by using the vanilla formations. Even then I can see that I'm getting the same behaviour, it just looks different because the missile guys are starting in front of the battle line.

Tried sniping the general several times and found that it does not cause the army to activate as previously thought. In fact I'm now getting the impression that the AI is making a missile strength comparison, and attacking when his is depleted. Still not sure though and even so, I don't know what to do about it if that is the case.

edit:

More recruitment related weirdness. I don't know how Repman is causing this stuff but I don't know where else to point. This time I noticed that I was able to produce 2 sergeant spearmen immediately on production of a barracks. I have tried to make this impossible but whatever is doing it, it's not in the EDB.

Perhaps it's related to the 'war draft' .... anyone know??

[Omar Nelson B.]

I have found that playing with no time limit helps this or at least allows then player to "not cheat". Works for me.

The reb lord that attacked me and just stood there had around 4 or 5 stars. So not crazy high. The one that ambushed me though had much more. So im not sure what is going on there?

One thing that I have just noticed and that I didn't really see before is that enemy Cav will not charge my stakes unless desprate. Nice feature there. I like that they stop short and try to flank.

[Taiji]

Yeah, the one I have a save for is with a 5 or 6 star general. It's quite unusual that he's using sheildwall...

No time limit is something I've known for ages... perhaps it's true in RTW too.

The stakes avoidance is an awesome development but it's still a bit dodgy, sometimes they charge the stakes anyway

Hmmm I think I have a cheeky idea to fix this idleness issue... I'll just force the AI further forward with the formation settings

edit:

Well that kinda works... until taken to extremes where weird stuff starts happening. I tried setting them 60m further forward and they started the battle facing the wrong direction, then they proceeded to find the highest hill and defend it. Cool, weird, not what I want.

I'm trying to trick them into getting so close that if they try to do the idle stupidity, they won't be able to, they'll just charge, problem solved.

It's still not working yet but I've learnt several rough things about formations.

edit:

Pah, yes I can get the idle army to fight but at what cost? This doesn't seem like a good solution... it only looks like it's fighting. If I move a unit, physically click them into place far enough forward of the base point for my formation, then the AI formation will collide with it. The units in contact will fight. The AI army will not respond properly to flanking and will not try to flank or attack with any unengaged units. It's like it's fighting but it doesn't realise the fact, not fighting properly as an army.... still better than not fighting at all but still, crap...