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Thread: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

  1. #61

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Great news, very nice backdrop!
    As for the Alex .exe, i may migrate my own mod to this .exe, as it has a better ai and a greater number of DMB entries available.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Something new will come out on the sub-mod?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    I have finals atm, so work is slowed still. though I'm pretty close to finishing the essentials of line infantry animations and models (I only have a bayonet animation left). I will be contacting some people to help me make the skins looks better, and will be providing an Alpha with the line infantry to some people. I will be sending instructions in addition to the alpha, depending on the skills of the person. if you have any such skills I might find useful, PM me, and I'll send it to you.

    once that is all done, I'm moving on to the next category of units.

    don't worry, hopefully you'll have this before the apocalypse
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; December 13, 2011 at 07:42 PM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  4. #64
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Yes, I can help!

    You did something for the campaign?

  5. #65
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    I could give you a hand with the file export_descr_unit (EDU) and descr_projectile_new (DPN), to change the statistics and accuracy of rifles and cannons.

  6. #66
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    if that is the case, I will email you the link. I must warn you, it is a big file (I'm afraid compression is still in its infancy with me)

    you will get your instructions once I'm assured of you having successfully downloaded it; one guy almost failed to get it dl'd on account of that. though last I hear, he has succeeded.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  7. #67
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Hello!

    I write here, because I do not know if the private messages you have arrived.

    I suggest you upload www.gamefront.com (you can register for free or not to register).

    You can upload large files, up to 2 GB (1 GB as well, for sure).

    Let me know!
    Last edited by Crociato78; December 16, 2011 at 12:47 AM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    You could also divide the sub-mod in 2 parts (divide above the folder "data").

    And even upload it on megaupload.com

  9. #69
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    well, a quick update:


    1-things are going well: haven't heard back about the alpha tests, but hoping for the best.

    2-I am currently working on the export_units file, to see to it that the units have a name to them.

    3-expect a preview any week within the next 4-5 weeks on the infantry, in installments. the format will be as follows:

    a-the basics of combat (attack, defense, etc) elaborated on in detail. so the numbers, why I chose them, and the accuracy and possibility of secondary projectiles; musket and rifle loading speeds will be discussed, and so on. bayonets will be discussed in some detail, as will be swords, daggers, etc. note that one of the bayonet movement sets is still incomplete, due to how mind-numbingly retarded it was in real life anyhow. (srsly, try charging in real life with a musket the old fashioned way).
    b-how the various stats will be combined to create the various subclasses of infantry in the mod
    c- finally, the units proper, and what they will generally look like. as mentioned previously, Officers will not be included. assume their appearance to be temporary
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  10. #70
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Happy holidays to you all and your families!

    Great job!
    For statistical units can give you a hand.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    allrighty, some news:

    1-huge breakthrough with the moghal army's infantry. more on that later.
    2-still stumped by that bayonet maneuver. since I owe an explanation here to some, it should look like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Image from an osprey book: it is accurate, as it is described as looking like this in the 1735 and 1757 manuals for Britain, and French manuals from the early part of the war (Austrians seem to have used it, though I'm not certain)

    3-the preview is shaping up well. hopefully, no later than next Monday, though I cannot guarantee it. I have a lot of business to take care of-Graduate school applications specifically.
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; January 12, 2012 at 12:00 AM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  12. #72
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    allrighty, the latest preview, and on time (thankfully). I managed to get my apps for grad school in too .


    anyways:

    1-The regular infantry (not light and irregular infantry):


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    first two pictures are of Prussian soldiers (IR 15, Prussian musketeers respectively), the last are British musketeers


    Background:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The mainstay of armies in this period, with the partial exception of the Mughal empire, was the Infantryman. These did much of the fighting, dying, and other, more menial jobs in the Seven years war, to one extent or another, and unsurprisingly made up the majority of most armies, and as a result, get the most attention in this mod.

    The war came during a period of transition in the art of warfare, and in the equipment and weapons of soldiers throughout Europe. The previous war of Austrian Succession (1740-1748), had demonstrated to the armies of Europe the soundness of many of the concepts and tools developed in Prussia. These included Cadenced marching, lighter more mobile artillery, and famously, the iron ramrod, which armies of that era largely did not use. By the start of the Seven Years war, most armies were not using most or all the above, though quality wasn't necessarily preserved.

    However, the Basics of warfare during this period remained unchanged. The Battalion was the main tactical unit, grouped into brigades and subdivided into platoons/firings. Men still lined up in long, relatively thin formations (2-6 men deep, though the average was 3), with the emphasis generally placed on firepower rather than shock or the bayonet (we'll get to that later). All line infantry in Europe (Ottomans aside) were equipped the same way: musket, Bayonet, and usually a sword or saber. The Ottomans did not use the bayonet, and neither did the Mughal infantry at this time.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The musket was generally about 4 1/2 to 5 1/4 feet long, with an effective range (on the battlefield) between 150-200 yards, though it was truly damaging only under ~100 yards, and truly murderous under ~50 yards. As most had iron ramrods, rate of fire was about 3 rounds a minute on the battlefield (though it was not necessarily sustained), with the more disciplined and well trained firing a bit faster than that, and minimally trained soldiers, or those with wooden ramrods firing ~2 rounds a minute. due to the fear and chaos typical of the battlefield, soldiers did not take care to make sure the round was patched (or even loaded properly), and didn't necessarily aim, so the accuracy was relatively low. This was why linear tactics were formed: to maximize the effect of musket fire. The idea was to divide a battalion into several subunits, namely platoons or divisions, and have them fire in volley, keeping up a constant sheet of lead heading at the enemy. How this was done (if at all) varied by army, with the Prussians firing right to left, and the British firing in a checkerboard fashion, for example. other methods included general battalion fire, Heckenfeuer (and anti-skirmisher formation), and at least semi-officially among the French, Feu de billabaude (i.e. firing at will). In practice, these complex methods of firing often broke down, especially after the officers were killed, and so firing at will became the de facto method of firing, with the Prussians also resorting to general battalion fire. Depending on the army, these movements could be executed on the move, as could be done by Prussian soldiers-assuming cohesion was not lost. Generally, each soldier in most armies occupied a space of 2 feet by 2 feet or so, so as to handle their muskets. of course, Ottoman and Mughal armies did not follow these ideas.

    the Ottoman army still used a looser formation, deeper ranks, and while they did fire in volleys, the emphasis was on accuracy, not speed. As they did not used paper cartridges, but the older powder horn and loose ball, their rate of fire was slower. they also depended on melee and shock using the sword, as they had no bayonets. the Mughals emphasized accuracy, and as they used matchlocks as well, were also much slower, though quite accurate.



    The bayonet, the melee weapon of the war for infantry, was a long, generally triangular cross-sectioned piece of iron, with a socket that fit the end of the barrel, with the whole 18-~28 inches (blade + socket) in length, depending on the army. It was generally used at the start of the war much the same way as a pike was during the 30 years war: it was to be held breast high, with the right hand bracing the butt of the musket, and the left hand between the swell or first band of a musket and the trigger guard. This was great for anti-cavalry purposes, but not as great for melee with other infantry. However, several armies (Prussia included) used a newer, more intuitive style: waist-high, in a manner not too dissimilar to the Napoleonic usage, or modern usage. It could still be very effective against cavalry, but gave the added benefit of turning the bayonet from just a glorified pike, into a potential shock weapon-a concept that was to be taken to its logical conclusion in continental armies until World War I. Either way, bayonet charges were common enough, but they usually did not lead to protracted melees, as one side would give way quickly, but when it did, it was usually very bloody (e.g. the fate of the Observation corps at Zorndorf).

    Swords by this stage in military history went largely unused in most armies' line infantry, even if issued with them. Some armies, such as that of Austria (but not Hungary) and Portugal, no longer were even issuing them, unless they were grenadiers-a trend to be followed by the British and French armies after the war. Prussian officers would often store the swords prior to battle, so as to not have them sold off by the soldiers (who also found them useless). The exception were Hungarian and Ottoman infantry in Europe, and Mughal infantry in India, which relied on cold steel from a saber or sword in their charges. Swords were between 2 and 3 1/2 long, with a variety of blades and hilts in use.

    Finally, these weapons and their uses can allow us to classify and understand the types of soldiers on the battlefield. in this case, the most common line soldier was the musketeer or fusilier (the terms were then interchangeable), who were the everyday grunts in European and Ottoman armies, and certain portions of the Mughal military. These were supplemented in a regiment or battalion by a company of Grenadiers, who were originally supposed to throw grenades (hence the name), but by now were the best soldiers of a regiment, and used for purposes of shock. They were often assembled from the companies of several regiments to form grenadier battalions, usually of a temporary measure. Finally, there were guard and special soldiers, whose quality varied from army to army, but who were supposed to be the cream of the army.


    Stats:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    So basically, having described the basics of what it was like, the next challenge is to figure out how to detail the stats in RTW. To that end, I came up with the following metric:

    1-muskets will have an attack of about 15. there will be no real exceptions, since frankly, the calibers are all very similar. And being what they are, the muskets are AP in stats. accuracy ranges from 0.4 to 0.6 (the closer to 1, the less accurate), with the velocity averaging 105m/s, and a range of 150-130 meters. there will be basically 5-7 classes of bullet (if hard-coding doesn't get in the way) based on accuracy, but also damage (not to be confused with attack). all rounds get a +3 against horses (bigger targets). European and Ottoman soldiers fire in volleys (latter will be ragged), Mughal musketeers will fire as individually as possible (yes, you can sorta do it). finally, some muskets will have a secondary missile-either double rounds or buckshot (the Russians used the latter, British the former), for use at close range.
    2-bayonets will be given stats ranging from 1-5, according to training, with lethality from 0.5 to 0.8 based on technique (the old-fashioned method is lower, with poorly done versions the lowest). the old method gives a +5 bonus (for now) against cavalry, while the new method is +3, but -1 and 0 vs. infantry. neither will have a bonus v. elephants. charge varies from half the attack (half lethality if attack is one), to twice the attack, with the lethality being the same except for the previous case. not AP.
    3-swords (hammers, tomahawks, and axes too) will be from 1-6 attack. same idea as before, but will have +0 v. cavalry, +0 v. infantry (+3 for sabers). Depending on type and training, they may be AP. lethality is 0.8-1.0.
    4-daggers (used by some Mughal units), will be from 1-2, AP (reflecting the type of dagger and its maneuverability , -7 v. cavalry, and +0 v. infantry. lethality is 0.5 only.
    5-arrows (used by Mughals) will have accuracy between 0.14 and 0.3, but will only have 5-7 attack, and will not be AP for the most part (exceptions may exist). it will have no bonuses. I will probably not have any fiery arrows.
    6-armor and shield will be 0 for most units, with defense skill between 1 and 5. when shields and armor are not zero, values will be from 1-3 for shields, values for armor would be from 1-10. the cuirass for cavalry in Europe (we'll talk about this in another preview), will be a 5, skull cap (inside the tricornes) 1.
    7-for missiles in generally, rate of fire is between 0.75 rounds a minute, and 3.5 rounds a minute, with most around 3 a minute for muskets. arrows will be 6-12 arrows a minute.



    as always, if anyone has any suggestions, feel free to voice them.

    sources:

    Duffy, Christopher, Military experience in the age of reason, 1987.
    Project SYW, www.Kronoskaf.com

    Soon: the units (well, some of them, I'll leave the rest as a surprise).
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; January 16, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  13. #73
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Interesting update and nice sub-mod! +rep

  14. #74
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    This is looking pretty awesome, and I am very much looking forward to playing it. Question, though. I remember reading on this thread something about it using the Alex expansion?

    Will it be available for BI? I would love to play this mod, but sadly don't own Alex and can't really afford to just go and get it any time soon. (University money-stuff).

    Either way, this is looking great, and I'm looking forward to another update. Keep up the good work, mate.
    "Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth, always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong. That is your oath."


  15. #75
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eohelm View Post
    This is looking pretty awesome, and I am very much looking forward to playing it. Question, though. I remember reading on this thread something about it using the Alex expansion?
    yes, this is due to hardcoading issues...but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eohelm View Post
    Will it be available for BI? I would love to play this mod, but sadly don't own Alex and can't really afford to just go and get it any time soon. (University money-stuff).
    hopefully. I understand your predicament, and will do my best to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eohelm View Post
    Either way, this is looking great, and I'm looking forward to another update. Keep up the good work, mate.
    thanks!
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  16. #76
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    Default Re: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    so, what faction you guys want to see first? I'll be posting the units preview this weekend (hopefully)
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  17. #77

    Default Re: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    France!

  18. #78
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    Default Re: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    One vote to the Austria!

  19. #79
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    Default Re: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    well, the decision has been made:

    1-France:

    first off, the Grenadiers and line troops of every faction will, unless otherwise noted, be from the same regiment. so for example, the British line infantry unit and grenadier unit will represent men from the same regiment.

    A. Native line infantry

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    French Fusiliers. gray-white coat, armed with an M1728/46 "St.Etienne" musket, bayonet, and epee (a type of sword). each soldier has 30 rounds or so, and can fire c. 3 rounds a minute, with decent accuracy. If possible, they will march at 60 steps a minute. these will roughly be the trends for most soldiers in this faction:


    French Grenadiers. Note that they had the same uniform as the fusiliers, save a sabre instead of an epee. use these as shock troops, battering the enemy with their volleys, before finishing them with the bayonet.


    Grenadiers Royaux. These were grenadiers selected from the Militia regiments of France, and looked and were equipped like the regular grenadiers, and had a similar function:


    Grenadiers de France: This was a regiment that comprised drafts of the best grenadiers from grenadier companies of all the regiments of French origin. use them wisely.


    Gardes Suisses. The name means "Swiss guards". As the name suggests, you had to be Swiss to be recruited. They are probably the best non-shock line infantry you have. They were traditionally placed in the center of the second line.


    Garde Françaises. These are the French guards: recruited only from native Frenchmen, outside areas like Strasbourg and Alsace. They will represent all battalions aside from the first battalion, which drilled in the Prussian style from c. 1750. Only slightly better than line infantry, and were traditionally deployed in the center of the first line.



    B. Foreign Infantry: while many of these were rare (Italians, Scots, and Liegeois), I decided to include them for variety; most won't be as good as the Frenchmen, save the Irish and Swiss-especially the latter

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    German regiment. not all regiments of this type dressed in blue, such as the regiment Bouillon. trained in the French manner:


    Irish Infantry. Very stubborn soldiers: if you need to stop the British, use them wisely.


    Scottish infantry: only two regiments existed back then. If a campaign were to be made, they would be unretrainable outside of Scotland.


    Italian infantry


    Liege infantry:


    last, but not least: the Swiss


    The flag that will be use as a battle-map faction banner (i.e. above the units) will be a simple white Flag. The decision behind this lay in the fact that the de facto Flag of France back then was literally a white Flag-which symbolized purity, not surrender. the Regimental Ordonnance flags in fact bore two white ribbons attached to them, and the Colonel flag in most regiments was a white field and white cross.
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; February 06, 2012 at 11:25 AM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  20. #80

    Default Re: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    very nice indeed!

    Just a little correction: Grenadiers du France doesn't mean anything in french, use Grenadiers DE France instead.

    otherwise, these units are very nice looking, check your pms!

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