Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

  1. #1
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Early Slavic Warfare



    Družina
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...slavs/druz.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...lavs/kniaz.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/scan0001.jpg
    The nature of early Slavic warfare can be characterized by this group of companions, synonymous in all of the modern Slavic tongues and tied to the tribal relationships of fealty that had preceded feudalism. The term Družina itself is rooted in the Proto-Slavic word for friend, drugъ, still present among modern Slavs in some form. In an era before feudalism, the central factor to conducting warfare was a potentate’s personal bodyguard, his group of closest companions, the Družina. These men were tied to their overlord through bonds similar to those of the Germanic peoples, and were supplied all their equipment and land by their lord. In exchange, they served as a standing army for the prince, almost always mobilized, travelling with him from gord to gord, and ready for war.
    Being the finest warriors at the disposal of the knez, they are the military elite of Slavic society, and their armour and equipment is evident of this. Not until the 9th c. that armour and swords had become more widespread among the Slavs and till that time only the Druzinniks had disposal to such fine weaponry. The Družina system would finally meet its end with the advent of feudalism into Eastern Europe, which allowed for greater manpower to be called up in times of war. The former Družina warrior class would gradually become the landed knights of the High Middle Ages.
    *please note that if used in a mod, this unit may have different version of it depending on the faction in question. although the druzhina was common to all slavs, military styles varied across regions. an eastern, western, southern, and even unique polish version is possible.

    Konnica
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/957_face.jpg
    The question of the use of cavalry among the Slavs has always been one disputed among historians. The most numerous sources on Slavic warfare come to us from the Byzantines, describing the Slavic raiders that had been penetrating Greece from across the Danube. It can be accepted that by the 7th c. the use of the horse among the Slavs was widespread, and most definitely among the elite. Evidence for this is provided in the nature of raids into Byzantium, which would have been made much easier on horseback. In addition the proximity of nomadic peoples in the northern Balkans to the Slavs there would have made the use of horsemen more widespread, and it seems the Avar and Bulgar raiding parties included Slavic cavalry as well.
    The average Slavic horseman would have very little difference in armour and weaponry from his infantry counterpart. Weapons ranged from axes, maces, to clubs, and in later periods swords. Javelins would also have been used. Armour, in the common trend of early Slavs, was very limited. Round shields and the occasional helmet of the conical shape, often imported from Western Europe, and the ‘Polish Great helms’ sporting a tall point, common of the East and borrowed from Persia.
    Slavic horsemen also used spurs, something that set them apart from the nomads.
    armed with javelin, secondary axe/mace/club (i believe it's now possible for varying weapons in one unit)

    Lučnici
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/slavarch.jpg
    The bow was perhaps the most widespread weapon used among Slavic infantry. The shape of these steel arrow-heads varied, from original shapes to others adapted from the nomadic archers. The Slavs were famous for their ambushing tactics, and the Byzantines described many different strategies they used to avoid open battle. Among these was the use of guerrilla warfare, keeping to forested areas where combat was made easier for and preferred by the warrior-bands, to even hiding in lakes by using reeds as snorkels. Another feature of Slavic archers was the use of poison-tipped arrowheads, mentioned in the Strategikon.
    Lacking any form of armour such lighter troops would be armed with axes or knives as a secondary weapon.

    Tǫgi Voje
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...slavs/voj2.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n.../1211_face.jpg
    The absence of armour was a common feature among the early Slavs. Not till later periods (9th c.) during which clan chiefs were consolidating their power do we see wider use of swords, helms, and chain mail. Even then only the wealthier strata of society would have the financial capacity for such equipment, but nonetheless it was no longer an uncommon site. These ‘heavy warriors’ would be the finest infantry at a knez’s disposal and their fierce Slavic warrior spirit combined with increased quality of armament makes them a deadly force on the battlefield.
    Heavier Slavic warriors of the later periods would still be armed with common weapons like axe and spear, but the sword was now coming into wider use as well. Round shields would still be the norm, and not till the 11th c. does the Norman kite shield come into use. Helmets would now also be much more commonly, the most widespread type in the west being the conical helmet, often imported from Francia and Germany, while oriental-style helmets were common in eastern Poland and the Rus’.
    primary javelin, secondary axe/sword. warcry

    Borьcьje
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...slavs/slav.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n.../1212_face.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/958_face.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...avs/tarcz2.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...avs/tarcz3.jpg
    The spear was another common weapon, cheap but effective nonetheless, and available to warriors of all classes. Sources also mention each warrior was armed with two javelins that are used aside from his main weapon. The typical Slav warrior-raider was absent of any armour aside from a round shield, in sources often noted for its shoddy quality. Some warriors are even described as wearing nothing but trousers into battle, with no tunics present. It was these lightly armed peoples that came out of the darkness of the Pripet areas and came to be known by the west as the Sclavi, Antes, and Wends. Their tactics involved the use of forest, ambush, and terrain to defeat foes of numerical and technological superiority, while early warfare was raid-based and large scale operations were uncommon till the later rise of powerful chieftains in the 7th and 8th centuries.
    primary javelin, secondary spear. warcry

    Voje
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...biantribes.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...lavs/slav2.jpg
    The axe was a favourite weapon among the tribal warriors. Cheap but devastating, the Slavs made good use of domestic axes (topor) and specialized battle-axes (bordy) of varying weight and blade shape. The wide use of such a weapon made the Slavic warrior a terrifying force on the battlefield, and combined with the military traditions and hot-headedness of these peoples this ensured the varying success that powerful political bodies like Byzantium and Frankland had fighting against these new invaders from the east, who in the example of the former often found Slavic armies with Avar support pounding on the gates of Constantinople itself.
    The equipment of these men would be persistent with the norm; absence of armour, with only the defence provided by one’s shield.
    primary javelin, secondary axe. warcry.

    *Družina Kagana (Avar Nobles)
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...lavs/avar4.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n.../1209_face.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...slavs/avar.jpg
    The Avars came onto the Danubian Plain in what is sometimes considered the second wave of nomads that would enter European via the Russian Steppe after Attila’s Huns came in the 5th century. The Avars were a powerful military force and in many ways very sophisticated militarily compared to their neighbours. Immediately they posed a threat to the Byzantine Empire, raiding across the Danube, even threatening Constantinople itself. All these military endeavours would not have been possible but for one key element in Avar warfare; the Slavs. The Avars that had occupied the Hungarian Plain came into proximity of the Slavic population already living there, and extensively used Slavonic warriors in its military operations, besieging cities and providing the infantry in the army. It became almost standard for Avar armies to be mainly composed of a Slavic infantry element, and there would even become a blend of nomad and settled Slav culture in the Avar realm.
    The Avars of course, being a nomadic people, would have provided the Slavs with their heavy cavalry on the battlefield. The king of the Avars, called the Khagan in Old Turkic, would have the finest of the Avar nobility at his disposal. Heavy riders armed in chain mail and lamellar, Avar nobility was in no ways poor, prosperous from the constant raids against Byzantium in the south, and even the Franks in the west.

    *Konnica Obrska (Avar Horse Archers)
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...lavs/avar3.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n.../1210_face.jpg
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...lavs/avar2.jpg
    Coming across the Carpathian basin, it is estimated the Avar host may have numbered as much as 50 000 pastoral nomads, once the Avars had absorbed many of the Huns and Bulgars in their wake. Entering Europe they were a typical nomadic force, based on mass units of light cavalry supported by heavy riders. The Avar light cavalry used the composite bough, albeit a shorter version from the Hunnic model. Throughout the second half of the 6th century these horsemen laid waste upon their neighbours, destroying the Gepids, subduing the Balkan Slavs, and creating havoc on the Byzantine border. It would not be till Byzantium’s end of war against Persia and a massive Slavic uprising that this semi-settled kingdom of the Avars finally went into decline, receiving its final blow from Charlemagne’s Franks. What remained of the Avars would be absorbed in the Slavic peoples they had once controlled.

    *Bol’are (Bulgar Nobles)


    *Konnica Blgarska (Bulgar Horse Archers)

    Some early Slavic arms
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Sanskrit_Bandit; April 01, 2010 at 06:10 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    FORGED SLAVIC SWORD, Starigard Oldenburg

    Hand forged Slavic sword from the locality of Starigard/Oldenburg. 10th Century. Blunt, battle ready replica. Overall site circa 80 cm.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    FORGED SLAVIC SPEAR - replica


    Replica of a slavonic spear from a locality of Stare Mesto (translation: Old Town) in Moravia, Czech Republic. Age: 9th/10th century of new Age. Total length: 39 cm.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    SLAVONIC AXE

    weapon for warriors who were not so rich to buy sword. This axe is inspired by finds of axes from the Great Moravian Empire (9th century).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    SLAVIC AXE

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    SLAVIC SCRAMASAX

    This knife was made on the basis of a find of a knife from Great Moravian times (8th century). Its blade is a replica of a blade from the locality of Levy Hradec. Decoration of knife-handle is borrowed from a decorated knife-handle that was found near locality of Stare Mesto u Uherskeho Hradiste. Total length: 35 cm, blade: 23 cm
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    SLAVONIC KNIFE - Stare Mesto locality

    replica of a knife from the 9th century (Great Moravian era). Total length: 23 cm, blade: 11,5 cm
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    OLD SLAVONIC KNIFE - Levy Hradec locality

    This unusual knife was made on the basis of a find of a knife from Great Moravian times (8th century). Its blade is a replica of a blade from the locality of Levy Hradec. Decoration of knife-handle is borrowed from a decorated knife-handle that was found near locality of Stare Mesto u Uherskeho Hradiste. Total length: 29 cm, blade: 17 cm.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    KNIFE OF OLD SLAVS


    Replica of a knife from the 9th century (Great Moravian era, Stare Mesto near Uherske Hradiste city). Total length: 25 cm, blade: 12 cm
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by absinthia; October 16, 2009 at 11:14 AM.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der gręd Enker og der gręd Bųrn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ųrn.
    Anders Sųrensen Vedel

  3. #3
    Geroj's Avatar Libertus
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Zilina
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare


  4. #4

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    For the Great Conflicts Mod we are still looking for names for some of our Slavic units. Do you know if any of the names you use here would be different if in the Old East Slavic dialect? We have a light cavalry unit javelins/one-handed axe, Konnica could work for them I think. The Rus called their Slavic tribal levies Voi which we're using for our unarmored spearmen. Do you have any idea for what we could call our light Slavic skirmisher infantry? They're armed with javelins and an axe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #5
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    although not a master in russian voi i'm pretty sure is singular, voje on the other hand is the reconstructed proto-slavic in the plural for vojin (warrior). proto-slavic used here would not be very different from later old east dialect. the western, southern, and eastern slavic dialects were becoming fragmented around the time of your mod, but the general language would still be very similar in vocab and mutually intelligeble to all slavs. the main differences were in some terms that were adopted from say germanic or turkish languages, and use by dialect would of course depend on the geographical position of the given tribe. here is where we see differentiation in words like dom, hata, or izba (eastern), which all mean house. however even in modern polish it is still clear what each one is refering to. therefore my conclusion is these names in original slavonic are still acceptable for this period. perhaps some later units came be named in old russian, but alas my sources go beyond that.
    in regards to light skirmishers, i wouldnt really put them as a seperate unit from the borcje (fighters). all slavic infantry of this nature, armed with spear and small axe, was also accostomed to throwing javelins before direct combat. slavs were masters of abushing, and infact the nature of war against mightier foes like byzantium or the franks was based upon hit-and-run tactics. large open field battles were very rare, slavic infantry being simply to lightly armed to face heavier armies. i wouldnt make a seperate skirmisher and spearman unit, perhaps i shouldve been clearer as i intended for the borcje to throw spears anyways. perhaps if in the rus spearmen were refered to as voje, then you can simply use borcje for the unit i describe here as voje. the names are pretty interchangable, warrior and fighter are just simple artistic names i thought up for these units, since i doubt the ancient slavs had 'official' names for the common warriors of their armies based on weapon equipment.
    Last edited by Sanskrit_Bandit; July 02, 2009 at 02:04 AM.

  6. #6
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Posts
    3,193

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Also, "konnitsa" simply means "cavalry", so be careful with using it if you have other simple cavalry units as well.

  7. #7
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    that is correct

  8. #8
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    I can make those weapons for you in 10 min tomorrow
    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


  9. #9
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    feel free to do so

  10. #10

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Hey thanks guys for the help. I will use borcje for the skirmishers. I'm aware that there should probably be one unit that uses spear, axe, and javelins but the game engine won't allow it so we have to split it into a spear and axe unit and a javelins and axe unit.

    I will look into voi further. I've found the word in several sources, but there could be a mistake in translation since I'm reading English language secondary sources. I'm sure voi has the same proto-Slavic root as vojin, but whether it is plural or singular, I don't know. Maybe I'll ask Tchouk or Sargon. Our mod takes place when the language was probably in a state of rapid change considering all the external influences. At the beginning of our time frame, the language was probably very much like the reconstructed proto-Slavic but by the end of our time frame it had probably evolved into a distinctly Russian variant.

    Also, we only have one Slavic cavalry unit so konnica works fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    I can make those weapons for you in 10 min tomorrow
    it will be very usefull
    Under the patronage of Nakharar
    DM Multi modding project

  12. #12
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Ok so its a deal.
    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


  13. #13
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Here is 3 weapons so far


    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


  14. #14
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Sry for 3-ple post
    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


  15. #15
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Isle of Slingers
    Posts
    3,769

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Wow, this is great, although the Axehead looks a little small... I love that sword though!

  16. #16
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Thnks.See orginal pic to compare my axe with one on it
    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


  17. #17
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    that's awesome, glad to see this stuff getting put to actual work sword looks great, although the hilt seems to be a bit long compared to the blade
    @ sumskilz i base my guess that voi is singular on the fact that speaking one slavic language pretty much gives me knowledge into the basic patterns they all follow. wój/voi is singular in polish and therefore is in russian as well. but ya, always good to check with a native speaker.
    also my book on proto-slavic gives later dialectic declentions among the different languages, ie. what sound changes occured, for example a consonant/vowel switch in some word constructs like proto-slavic gard (fort/city) changing into gorod in eastern slavic, and grad in western and southern. i'll look further in to it and see what i can disifer as i am not a professional linguist
    Last edited by Sanskrit_Bandit; July 06, 2009 at 08:32 PM.

  18. #18
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada/Polska
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    updated armaments for infantry units to make clear what i intend for them, and a note on the druzhina if used in a mod.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Here is 3 weapons so far
    awesome +
    Under the patronage of Nakharar
    DM Multi modding project

  20. #20
    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Split,Croatia
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Kry i ˛ělězo - Early Slavic Warfare

    Thanks I will make rest of those for you
    Proud patron of Wlesmana
    Assyria Total War
    Check update thread for new HQ models
    My Workshop™


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •