[Faction Discussion] Goryeo

[Terryus]

yes but, korea also had lite cavalry (to deal with jurchen) and cataphracts.
the only thing they dont have is gun powder, and even that they eventually get in josun...

[DevrimJan]

So, could these pics help?

[Cuong Vu]

Thank you for posting them, Devrim Jan, they are very helpful.
That being said, I have a question to ask:　When did the chain mail enter Korea. I saw numerous modern depictions and a mailed vest during the Imijin War, but nothing dating back to our time frame.

[againster]

...In fact..most of picture about Joeson army in this thread is that at Ming dynasty or later..but?What about that in 11-13th century?

[IGdood]

A lot of the links are broken, can anyone reupload or relink?

[IGdood]

Sorry to double post.

Anyway, you MAY see some content like this in AUH/Shaoding's future for the Goryeo faction.

Much of the research is done by Koreans on their forums, so it should be accurate. Maybe it's one of the posters here?


They are rather distinguishable from Joseon-era units. If you're curious about Joseon era units, they would be linked here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13942192

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Levy Spearmen and Levy Archers will use this picture for reference





Regular Shock Troops, Swordsmen, and Spearmen will use this for a reference




Archers and Horse Archers will use this as a reference

They'll fix the helmets, these screenshots are about a year old now.






Elite Archer...?




Heavy Infantry Reference picture





Special Warrior Monk Unit (降魔軍 Anti-Demon Unit)




Melee Cavalry








General!

[Yayattasa]

Really nice! From which version of Shaoding are they from (or is it from a preview)? I'm currently playing 0.8.

[IGdood]

Really nice! From which version of Shaoding are they from (or is it from a preview)? I'm currently playing 0.8.

It's a preview. The 0.8 version has a Goryeo faction with barely finished units and an incomplete roster. The levy archers are there though, but everyone else is using a Joseon unit placeholder.

The Elite Archer model is from the other mod River of Blood (ManJiangHong), but since that mod just uses assets from the other Chinese mods and Western mods I believe that one will also be in Shaoding one of these days.


The mod team seems focused on completing the main players of the Song Dynasty period first (Song, Jin, Mongols, Kara-Khitan [Western Liao], Tanguts [Western Xia]) After that the Dali, Tibet, and Goryeo will be completed, etc.

Japan is already completed for some reason, interestingly enough...

[Yelü Dashi]

I admit getting sources on what the Goryeo army would have looked like is extremely tough, despite the Korean's always blowing their own trumpets, at least these RTL units don't look like Joseon rip offs or from a historical Korean soap-opera. I could probably use elements of them for AUH. However, it very very unlikely that Goryeo troops were kitted out in chainmail, whilst all their neighbors eschewed it in favour of lamellar, - then again I'd love to be proved wrong about that as it looks 'cool'. Any evidence knocking around ?

[IGdood]

I admit getting sources on what the Goryeo army would have looked like is extremely tough, despite the Korean's always blowing their own trumpets, at least these RTL units don't look like Joseon rip offs or from a historical Korean soap-opera. I could probably use elements of them for AUH. However, it very very unlikely that Goryeo troops were kitted out in chainmail, whilst all their neighbors eschewed it in favour of lamellar, - then again I'd love to be proved wrong about that as it looks 'cool'. Any evidence knocking around ?

They have a Korean user who contributes to their Goryeo and Joseon research. Mostly it is paintings and sculptures. I would link if I can find it. They recently moved to a new website.

The chain that you are referring to is the one with a lot of squares on it? I believe that is from Osprey Publishing.

[Guan Ziyang]

Actually that armor is not chain mail at all. It's quite a famous style of armor called Mountain Pattern armor (It's in the pattern of the 山 (mountain) character), which was invented during the Northern & Southern dynasties in China, and continued to be in popular use until the end of Song.

It's not surprising that Korea would copy some designs from the Chinese; they copied quite a few things from us (including the famous Zhuge-nu/Chu-ko-nu repeating crossbow, which the Koreans copied and used during the Imjin War). As to historical evidence though, I have also yet to see that proof, but it is extremely possible that they outfitted a few of their heavier infantry with that armor. It's much more effective than lamellar armor, as the interlocking individual 'patterns' eliminate the possibility of 'gaps' or 'holes', therefore much more effective against arrows. Since it's the interlock forms a strong chain, it also makes it very effective against both thrusting and slashing blows, while remaining comfortable for the soldier. It was only phased out after the 'gunpowder revolution', when new armors better suited (lighter and cheaper) to deal with this new technology replaced it.

[IGdood]

I spoke with one of the team members and it turns out they only made 2 soldier models for Goryeo. So in the pictures I posted, some of them were made from Korean modders. Does anyone know of a Korean total war forum with a Korean mod?

The Shaoding mod has the foot archers and the elite foot archer model. I presume the rest is from the Korean modders.

[heavy_arms86]

Hey there AUH team. I have been following your mod now for about 2 years. Would you mind if you answered a few questions I have. Thanks.
1. How many factions does AUH have that are fully working?
2. Do you have a set date for a full release?
3. Would you consider adding Southeast Asian factions like the majapahits? (I know they were a maritime power and stretched throughout islands and that sea warfare AI of MTW2 isn't that worked out but I guess you could do a "land bridge" kind of thing like how armies are able to cross from southern Italy into Sicily if you play the vanilla version of Mtw2).
4. Lastly are you guys still in the beta stages of the game?
Thanks! Any answers would be really appreciated.
PS. Being a Asian myself I am really looking forward to this mod being completed. I think that if and when it is it will be one of the best mods out there sharing the same fame as SS and TATW.

[IGdood]

Pretty sure the mod is on....standstill at the moment. If you really want to play a mod set in the Song dynasty I would recommend looking at the Chinese mods I've posted. They use some AUH content as they are collaborating. Sorry for the disappointing news.

[Yayattasa]

I admit getting sources on what the Goryeo army would have looked like is extremely tough, despite the Korean's always blowing their own trumpets, at least these RTL units don't look like Joseon rip offs or from a historical Korean soap-opera. I could probably use elements of them for AUH. However, it very very unlikely that Goryeo troops were kitted out in chainmail, whilst all their neighbors eschewed it in favour of lamellar, - then again I'd love to be proved wrong about that as it looks 'cool'. Any evidence knocking around ?

It's often said (not on scientific literature, so don't quote me on that) that chainmail was adopted during Joseon. Lamellar, on the other hand, is well documented, happening from even before the Three Kingdoms to Joseon.

[IGdood]

Pretty sure the mod is on the down low, but in case anyone is still interested there's a new-ish historical drama called Jeong Do-Jeon which focuses on historical accuracy. It is about the life of the founder of the Joseon Dynasty, takes place around 1380-1400.

For production they consulted a many historians in Korean history in order to achieve a very high degree of historical accuracy in order to generate an appreciation for history in the audience.

Here are some pictures:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Yayattasa]

I'm not sure brigandine was used at all during Goryeo.

[IGdood]

Probably not within AUH's timeframe. The tv series depicts transition into the Joseon dynasty (1380s) so that might make more sense.

[IGdood]

I see that the earlier pics I posted are now dead links. I've reuploaded to imgur and will post here:


This set of drawings comes from a Korean user on the Chinese forums








These paintings were Joseon's depiction of the Goryeo troops. So they weren't painted during the Goryeo dynasty, but after.







These pictures depict recent archaeological findings of Goryeo armor. I think.













This was a cartoon I found regarding the Goryeo-Khitan Wars

The archers' brigandine might not be accurate but the general's helmet seems to be accurate.









A statue built to commemorate Goryeo's victory over the Khitan







This was from a youtube video of a reenactment of the Goryeo-Khitan wars








They used this painting as a source

[Yelü Dashi]

Thanks very much IGdood - much appreciated.

I had saved most of these images of my PC, but missed a few.

Unfortunately, it seems most of this is 90% useless when it comes to accurate inspiration for Goryeo (tho the very first image has some accuracy) - most of this stuff from Joseon (i.e late 14th century onwards ). So I am really starting from scratch for Goryeo, using sources like the Mongol invasion of Japan scrolls (the 13th century ones), which seem to offer a reasonably accurate insight into the AUH period.

Also, I will be using xman1717's brilliant illustrations (see the original hi-res images here) which again are mainly depicting Joseon troops, but he has created a decent handful that are Goryeo-era inspired:



As you can see (and please don't tell the Koreans!) some of the troops actually look quite Song /Heian-era influenced stylistically, which does make sense when you think about it.

I think we can successfully craft an interesting and unique roster from these renderings.

What do you guys think ? Any other source material knocking around ? (and please no fake chainmail or brigadines).