AUH: Suggestions and Ideas

[Durruti1936]

Good luck on this excellent project! I know the team doesn't really want to change the factions but I would agree with haru-no-yo to some extent in that I think at least the Oshu (aka Northern) Fujiwara should be included. They were a powerful faction, independent of the Taira and Minamoto alliance groupings, that ruled Mutsu and Dewa from their capital at Hiraizumi almost like a separate kingdom until their destruction by Yoritomo.

Minamoto "Kiso" Yoshinaka was also very independent of the main Minamoto faction under Yoritomo.

BTW here's a map of Japan showing the position of the main clan groupings in the 12th Century:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6...lyclanmap2.jpg

[Durruti1936]

The attempted Mongol Invasions of Japan came in 1274 and 1281, so a couple of years out of the scope of the mod, however the armour, weapons and clothing were still *mainly* the same. For a few ideas on troop types check out these clips from a Japanese drama series that cover the invasions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bifyxXQ85nc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8J3cwg6do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9de6mjaNQ

Also the famous "Mongol Invasions Scroll" painted shortly after the events:

http://www.bowdoin.edu/mongol-scrolls/

The samurai arms and armour are quite accurately depicted showing the wealthier horse warriors wearing boxy o-yoroi armour with four large tassets suspended from the waist and two large shoulder guards. The kabuto helmet has a very wide neckguard angled upwards and a shallow, slighty conical bowl. They're mainly armed with yumi bow and tachi sword but also sometimes naginata when dismounted.

Poorer foot samurai and retainers wear lighter do-maru, haramaki and hara-ate armour. Weapons are mostly naginata and tachi, sometimes a bow. Note that yari spears didn't come into use until the late 14th Century and didn't really take off until the 15th-16th. Also note that "eboshi" caps are worn by all classes in this era when the helmet wasn't - an eboshi was given to every boy at age 14 as part of his manhood ceremony so going bareheaded in public was extremely rare unless you were a monk.

The Yuan Mongols/Chinese forces in the TV clips differ somewhat from the dress in the scroll painting so might not be as accurate. Here is some surviving 13th Century Yuan armour in a Japanese museum :
http://www.ualberta.ca/~chor/mongolin.htm

The Yuan forces of Khubilai Khan came to include Mongols, Jurchens, northern Chinese, ex-Song Chinese and Koreans and that is reflected in the dress and weaponry - note the crossbows, trebuchets and thunder-crash bombs in the TV clips!

Just some suggestions to kick around...

[Matsu]

Glad to know that the team is creating a Total War mod version for Asian battlefield. I suggest the team should visit the Blue Lotus mod . It 's pretty much sharing the same ideas with AUH excepts the setting is in East Asian Mythology world with Fantasy units. I played it two years ago, awsome experience =)
Here is the link:

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=96

[Claudius Caesar]

On the kuriltai discussion, i must agree that it should be implemented somehow. And as FHs in Medieval II are chosen by authority, there is a way around the hardcoded idiocy. When your FL died, a new heir would be auto assigned, according to which FM has the most authority. But the kuriltai could be used to pick the next FH, in effect performing its function of picking the FL. There would be a condition that the new FL, new FH, and the top few generals would have to be in the homeland. Then the FH would get an ancillary that gives plus 5 or 10 authority. You could then assign the next FH by giving one of those generals the ancillary. They would eventually become FL. The premise that this is based on may be found here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=257175 . Thanks to Konny for the basic idea. I just applied it here.
Claudius

[Augustus Lucifer]

On the kuriltai discussion, i must agree that it should be implemented somehow. And as FHs in Medieval II are chosen by authority, there is a way around the hardcoded idiocy. When your FL died, a new heir would be auto assigned, according to which FM has the most authority. But the kuriltai could be used to pick the next FH, in effect performing its function of picking the FL. There would be a condition that the new FL, new FH, and the top few generals would have to be in the homeland. Then the FH would get an ancillary that gives plus 5 or 10 authority. You could then assign the next FH by giving one of those generals the ancillary. They would eventually become FL. The premise that this is based on may be found here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=257175 . Thanks to Konny for the basic idea. I just applied it here.
Claudius

Yes I'm aware of the research done by konny and the dHRR guys with respect to determining faction succession. It is plausible to achieve a system similar to what you suggest. The problem is that it does not quite fit with the notion of a kuriltai. The game doesn't have a delay between appointing leader and heir, once the leader dies a new heir is chosen and the new leader was ordained many years prior. This can be influenced by authority ratings as a hidden stat prior to being leader, but the notion of kuriltai is one where the generals meet to determine the next leader after the previous leader dies. While in-game the heir would have been determined as many as 20+ years before the death of the faction leader. So this "kuriltai" would have to be to choose the 3rd in line for the throne, and unrelated to the death of any ruler since it is impossible to know when someone is going to die unless their death is scripted. That doesn't make it much of a kuriltai at all, from my perspective.

[yevon]

a.... I have a question.

Until now, we see in Asia have some unit like chariot or javelin Elephant. Someone say we can't made these unit in M2. Can mods made it???? If can, I think we should add it in game.

[Augustus Lucifer]

a.... I have a question.

Until now, we see in Asia have some unit like chariot or javelin Elephant. Someone say we can't made these unit in M2. Can mods made it???? If can, I think we should add it in game.

Elephants are already in M2, I'm not sure what if any the problems would be with giving their riders javelins as opposed to archers. Chariots I'm sure have been modded in by another user, might have been Bwian or KE, I can't recall. Who are you referring to as having used chariots though? I recall them having prevalence during Spring and Autumn China but that's a good millennium before the start of our mod. It seems curious they'd be used in wartime capacity during our era, the only possible prevalence being in indochina where I'm sure their mobility would be an issue.

[yevon]

Who are you referring to as having used chariots though?

This is Khmer Empire. Kinay has just posted me a picture. In this, Khmer have buffalo chariot.

Elephants are already in M2, I'm not sure what if any the problems would be with giving their riders javelins as opposed to archers.

yes, because I see many kingdoms in the Southeast Asia like Champa, Khmer, Dai Viet, Thailand, Mianma have a Javelin Elephant. But someone say me we only can made Archery Elephant. Because of that, I have to ask you. Thank you very much.

[plissken3]

I do not know if this has already been discussed but the inclusion of banners attached to the backs of units would really be cool - as I have seen in almost every samurai movie - I am not sure of what time period they used this, but I am sure whenever you think of japanese samurai & the battles this is what always springs to mind - different coloured armour, I think to represent what clan/warlord they belong to & those banners on the backs of infantry/cavalry alike fluttering in the breeze -as in shogun total war, & I think someone mentioned - masks - very good idea.
I am a great fan of the Japanese feudal period & I think what all of you are doing - making medieval 2 into Japanese feudal era is utterly fantastic & you have my full supprt!!!
GOOD LUCK

[Durruti1936]

plissken, to be honest, most of the things you mention like sashimono back banners and face-mask armour are features of warfare in 16th century Japan as that is the most popular era for movies, games and the like (so far anyway!).

[plissken3]

Shame - I think that would have been quite a nice touch - nevermind this mod looks fantastic
anyway and thanks for info Durruti - "sashimono" back banners-thanks

[Vic Vega]

What are the armor upgrades going to be?

[yevon]

I have a more question. About building. Mod will use imagine of building in game ( all of them is Building of europa, not asia) or will change it become imagine of every faction in game??? I say, the imagine of Temple, in game this is church. But this is Asia, that imagine will be change to vihara or Buddhism temple ???? And every faction have Buddhism temple different each other. Will mods use same imagine for every faction, or each faction have a themself building's imagine???

SOng will use their Temple's imagine:

http://eng.taiwan.net.tw/att/2/small...1199_Q13_1.jpg

Japan will use their Temple's imagine:

http://www.gweilo.com/torakarate/ima...ese_temple.jpg

Dai Viet will use their temple's imagine:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2...abaoan1mj8.jpg
....
?????

[gamevn]

I think the temple architectures are only different between religions (Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, Vajrayana Buddhism, Tengriism, Daoxue), not depend on faction. I mean if the Song, Japan and DaiViet had the same religion (example Mahayana Buddism), they would have the same temple.

[jalen911]

I am waitting...........................................................................................

[Augustus Lucifer]

What are the armor upgrades going to be?

Not sure. Armor upgrades don't take precedence in our development plans. Time invested making an armor upgrade could be spent making a new unit instead. If we decide to include armor upgrades they will come later on, after all of the many base units we plan to include(which use very little elements from one another), are completed.

I have a more question. About building. Mod will use imagine of building in game ( all of them is Building of europa, not asia) or will change it become imagine of every faction in game??? I say, the imagine of Temple, in game this is church. But this is Asia, that imagine will be change to vihara or Buddhism temple ???? And every faction have Buddhism temple different each other. Will mods use same imagine for every faction, or each faction have a themself building's imagine???

SOng will use their Temple's imagine:

http://eng.taiwan.net.tw/att/2/small...1199_Q13_1.jpg

Japan will use their Temple's imagine:

http://www.gweilo.com/torakarate/ima...ese_temple.jpg

Dai Viet will use their temple's imagine:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2...abaoan1mj8.jpg
....
?????

I think the temple architectures are only different between religions (Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, Vajrayana Buddhism, Tengriism, Daoxue), not depend on faction. I mean if the Song, Japan and DaiViet had the same religion (example Mahayana Buddism), they would have the same temple.

The Religion System is still in the works and will be explained later on. But what gamevn said is essentially true, I'm not entirely sure about the looks of building images in-game. What we're trying to do with our religion system is enable each faction to have different religious options without requiring a vast number of building trees to allocate for it. This entails the sharing of some elements that have yet to be fully realized.

I am waitting...........................................................................................

For?

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Your dreamy self to post?

<3

[Augustus Lucifer]

Your dreamy self to post?

<3

Don't I knows it.

[kotaro123]

Hello everybody,

I don´t know if you could implement the follwing idea:
I ever thought there was a lack of plots in medieval 2 which would improve the overall gameplay aspecially the diplomatic.
therefore, I suggest to create rebel states like jin rebels or song rebels for all factions. This new feature would allow the player to weak playable factions (song, jin et caetera) with the diplomatic way: by helping those rebel states to revolt against their major factions and to begin a civil war,by giving them money or (i don´t know if it is possible) by lending them some troops the player could win battles or even wars without losing any soldier. Of course acting like that would decrease your reputation very quickly. On the other hand helping the playable factions against the rebel states would improve your relations with it and increase your reputation very quickly. Furthermore, aiding the rebel state to revolt could be considered as a casus belli and could have major consequences on your own faction, therefore the player has to think about doing this twice! It could be interesting. If the team is able to add this new diplomatic challenge, then please, please, I pray for it, implement this!

Thank you for all the work that was already done, thank you for developing this mod which seems to be the best ever released and good luck!

P.S: forgive my poor english, I´m french!

[Augustus Lucifer]

Hello everybody,

I don´t know if you could implement the follwing idea:
I ever thought there was a lack of plots in medieval 2 which would improve the overall gameplay aspecially the diplomatic.
therefore, I suggest to create rebel states like jin rebels or song rebels for all factions. This new feature would allow the player to weak playable factions (song, jin et caetera) with the diplomatic way: by helping those rebel states to revolt against their major factions and to begin a civil war,by giving them money or (i don´t know if it is possible) by lending them some troops the player could win battles or even wars without losing any soldier. Of course acting like that would decrease your reputation very quickly. On the other hand helping the playable factions against the rebel states would improve your relations with it and increase your reputation very quickly. Furthermore, aiding the rebel state to revolt could be considered as a casus belli and could have major consequences on your own faction, therefore the player has to think about doing this twice! It could be interesting. If the team is able to add this new diplomatic challenge, then please, please, I pray for it, implement this!

Thank you for all the work that was already done, thank you for developing this mod which seems to be the best ever released and good luck!

P.S: forgive my poor english, I´m french!

Sounds like you've been playing some Europa Universalis III?

The concept of 'reputation' is something that the CA Devs would have had to come up with. There's very little we can do with the diplomatic system, I haven't delved into all of it yet. If there's something I can do with scripting to improve the diplomatic system, believe me I'll do it. But preliminary looks into that sort of thing yield only cursory ways to act on the diplomacy system and then only in response to diplomatic proposals.

What you're asking for is only possible in an extremely roundabout sense. I could conceivably script a way to donate money to a faction outside the diplomatic interface, but it wouldn't be possible with rebels or a shadow faction, so each counter-faction would need its own faction slot which we can't sacrifice for that purpose. The possibility of funding dissension is there through other roundabout ways and I might consider it, but the AI is pretty damned to deal with the player as it is without being stricken with rebellions and the like.