Suggestion for Logistics/Supply Line Mod

[realms18]

I think I have a solid idea for incorporating logistics into ETW, which CA will never do on their own (they keep trying to make TW "accessible", not realizing that the casual gamers this caters to do NOT play strategy games, and if they do, they play simplistic drivel like Endwar). I have no interest and do not possess the skills to mod, so feel free to steal my idea--I'm interested in playing it! One thing I do know is all things military--I minored in military history and have spent my entire adult life in the Army, so here goes...

LAND ARMIES
Once an army exits friendly or allied territory, a faint line is traced behind it, marking its path to its current point. This line begins at the nearest friendly or allied city. This line indicates the army's line of supply. Enemy forces can cut the army's supply line by placing an army of sufficient strength on that line (let's say an army of at least 4 units, other wise you could be cheap and sever lines with one unit!). The army whose line of supply is interrupted has one turn to perform one of three possible remedies or it begins to suffer from the following negative effects...

As soon as the line is cut, the army's ammo count becomes persistent, i.e. it does not replenish from battle to battle. EX; Army A's supply line is blocked, and then it is attacked. During the battle, the army uses 1/2 of it's ammo counter. Until this army is resupplied or reopens it's supply line, it will begin the next battle with 1/2 ammo, and so on... Each time Army A routs another army, SOME of it's ammo counter is replenished, however, representing the seizure of a routed army's supply train.

At the 2nd turn w/o resupply--the army will suffer a loss of morale
At the 3rd turn w/o resupply and on--the army will have a certain percentage of troops desert, beginning with lower quality troops and on to more elites.

Three Ways to Relieve or Resupply Army A...
1) Eliminate the army that is blocking line of supply...this can be done with the army in peril or by a relief force (i.e. another army)
2) Raid an enemies farms/agriculture (CA has said that many resources such as farms will be placed outside city walls and can be raided to harm it's economy, why not use it for resupply?)--this option will obviously only remedy food shortages, not ammo supply-- OR take an enemy town, city, or fort. Taking a town, city, or fort will replenish an army's ammo count, and stop negative effects. In addition, a new supply line will begin at the captured town or fort until the enemy recaptures it.
3) Resupply by sea...The player can move his imperiled army to a nearby shore, and then move one of his fleets next to it. This will resupply the land army, but the fleet will now have 5 turns to make it back to a friendly port to resupply itself!

THIS COULD also expand strategic depth...
An army that is relying on a supply line will move slower than an army with no supply line. This now becomes a strategic possibility to employ purposefully, as Sherman did during his March to the Sea campaign. A player can abandon his lines of supply to vastly increase the speed of an armies movement, but will have to keep taking enemy cities, forts, or raiding resources or risk the negative effects above.
To counter this, the opposing player could adopt a "scorched earth" policy. He has the option to raze resources such as farms or mine to deny them to the enemy, and then garrisons his cities heavily.

Let me know what you guys think of this idea--is it dumb? Do you have any suggestions? Is this mod possible to implement?

[ray243]

I still have no idea if this is even possible.

[Brammius]

I hope this is possible to mod into the in some way or another .

[delArko]

This would make an excellent forum topic to expand upon. I like how you think my friend. The logistics and geopolitics of this game using examples. Finally!

Question is, where to put it and what to call it...

[realms18]

NAVAL BATTLES
Logistics for naval battles should be a simpler affair to implement into the game than land battles...Simply have it so that each fleet can only stay out in open waters for a certain number of turns. After this limit is reached, the crews begin to suffer a loss of morale, and eventually mutiny (becoming a pirate fleet that may turn around and raid your shipping!) To avoid this, players should have to bring their fleet to a friendly port to resupply. The number of turns a fleet can stay out should depend on a few factors...
1) Size of ships--bigger ships can hold more supplies, right?
2) Size of crew--more crew means more food consumption.
3) Presence of transported land armies--transporting a huge field army should be an immense drain on a fleets supplies, requiring it to dock at friendly ports often. This factor adds a new level in politics and a new challenge to conquering foreign lands--the player will have to secure trade rights and maintain good relations with the nations that lie along the route to his/her objective (or conquer along the way, of course). This also places firm emphasis on having a sufficient armed escort, as enemy fleets can easily pursue. A good example of this would be Nelson pursuing Napoleon's fleet as he moved on Egypt. Napoleon's fleet had to make a large number of stops along the way, and the only reason he didn't get caught by Nelson early on was that Nelson didn't have enough smalll ships for recon, and made an inaccurate assumption about the enemies' destination.

[realms18]

These mod ideas, if implemented by someone, could graduate TW to the graduate level of warfare...after all, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."

[delArko]

Total War and Military Logistics might be an idea for a forum topic.

[Nantok]

This is a good idea. Well thought

[Aloicias]

I would also be interested in areas of very little supply like North America at this time. Certain territorys outside of New England must have a supply line or starve. Particularly the French & indian war, and how the Brits taking of Louisburg (sea blockade) & later Frontinac (the supply hub) ultimately doomed the French in NA.

I wonder an if, if. If you could implement this, if there could be territories completely dependant on supply lines, maybe work something through the new infastructure building tree.

[macke]

I like many of your ideas, however not the "supply line" thing. The reason for this is that this wasn't used in these times. Shorter lines, yes, but not all the way from your homeland. Because it would be impossible to supply a moving army in these times all the way from your home land, since you only had horses, and perhaps ships. Also even if remotely possible it would be much more expensive than taking your enemies supply. Other than that it is great, In fact have a similar idea:

"Let's say that each army stack have "supply bar" which states that how well supplied they are. In peace time the bar is fixed (since you are in you own territory. you can't enter an enemy territory unless at war, perhaps ally territory can be entered?). Or if you want to prepare for war before declaring it, you could have a choice of "campain supplying" your armies, which will cost money. When your armies cross into enemy territory (war time), the supply bar starts to drop at a certain rate each turn, perhaps also after battles when ammunition is used. When in enemy territory you could have the choice of pillaging you enemy wich will cost all (or some) current movement points, or you could choose to buy supply from locals in the area. Sacking enemy towns or farms would help increasing the bar aswell. Pillaging the country side would of course make the locals to hate you, making it harder to control the area, should you have to goal to conquer this province. The rate at which the supply bar drops could vary on different things, like weather, any supply bonus from your general or such. Merging different armies could either increase your supply bar or decrease it. When your supply bar is at the bottom you would suffer different penelties, like morale drops and even desertation. This would mean that if the enemy have used the scorched earth tactic, you would have a harder time finding new supplies."

Perhaps the "line of supply" would have to be traced to a farm inside the same province that you are in.

For the Supply Idea regarding naval units this is also very good I think. Although I don't think that naval units should suffer if they have land units boarded on them since they should have their own supply.

[John-117]

I think I have a solid idea for incorporating logistics into ETW, which CA will never do on their own (they keep trying to make TW "accessible", not realizing that the casual gamers this caters to do NOT play strategy games, and if they do, they play simplistic drivel like Endwar). I have no interest and do not possess the skills to mod, so feel free to steal my idea--I'm interested in playing it! One thing I do know is all things military--I minored in military history and have spent my entire adult life in the Army, so here goes...


Let me know what you guys think of this idea--is it dumb? Do you have any suggestions? Is this mod possible to implement?

first of all, endwar is a good game. try playing it. it's made to be somewhat complex, due to the fact that you're fighting 2 large enemies and have many cities to conquer. but anyway...

i don't think there would be a way to implement it, due to the lack of anything close to it. CA could do it, but they more than likely won't. you mentioned shermans march. if they did the same thing, they would just take from small villages that are too small to see. it's not like there's only one farming community in the entire province. there's hundreds of little tiny towns, some that were actually significant, that you don't get a chance to see in total war.they would probably be about half the size of a village, and would resupply you with anything you needed.im sure if youre rich and want to stay on the good side of another nation, you could buy their supplies from nearby towns and keep marching.

[Aloicias]

I think it might work with the system that CA has mentioned with reinforcements recruits automatically tracing out a line & jioning up with the general. Something similiar could be done every couple of turns or so, a supply unit is automatically created and has to track to were you are. With the option to stop them and redirect them like the reinforcements are said to work. This would keep down micromanagement as well.

Atleast for North America it wasnt a big supply train or long train of ships, they were in a group.

[realms18]

Yeah, the line of supply would not extend all the way from your homeland, but from your army to the last captured settlement. It would only extend from your homeland in the initial stages of a campaign. For example...if you choose not to capture any enemy settlements, your line of supply would be very long and thus easily cut. Or, a LOS could only extend for a certain distance before the army has to abandon them and forage or "requisition".

[macke]

I would prefer that the "line of supply" if you must have it, shouldn't be able to be traced to adjacent provinces even. Maximum to a nearby farm within the same province. That way you would have to keep taking farms in order to feed your army, thus making it more realistic. Also this would perhaps enable the enemy to destroy their own farms when retreating to keep you from getting more food. Thus adding challenge, since an enemy with a smaller army could still starve you out without having to break your lines of supply.