Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42

Thread: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

  1. #1
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    6,423

    Default Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    During the game's time period (1700-1799), what were the worst defeats experienced by your country?

    Arnold Expedition (1775-1776) - Although Montreal fell into American hands, Quebec would prove to be much tougher. Soon after leaving Maine, the Americans under Benedict Arnold were beset by frostbite, hypothermia, and hunger. Arnold expected thousands of Canadians to join the Patriot cause, but was severely disappointed. By the time the Americans reached Quebec, they were frozen, sick, and starving. An assault on the walls only resulted in heavy losses. It was a defeat in every sense of the word.

    Battle of Camden (1780) - Despite outnumbering the British by nearly two to one, the American force was mostly composed of ineffective militia. Those militia quickly fled, leaving the regulars and a single militia unit to confront Cornwallis' trained redcoats. The Americans lost more than half their force, along with their artillery and baggage trains.

    Battle of the Wabash (1791) - A composite force of regulars, temporary levies, and Kentucky militia was wiped out by the Western Confederacy tribes. Many of the levies and militia deserted before the battle even started, and most of the remainder were routed during the first minutes of combat. Out of more than one thousand fighting men and attached camp followers, only forty-eight escaped. One quarter of the United States Army was lost that day.

    Under the patronage of Cpl_Hicks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Culloden 1746, Highland way of life is smashed. Many flee to the colonies seeking a better life. But reports come back warning no one to go there for fear of a worse life.

    No to the pretenders of the British Throne! Jacobite Till I Die

  3. #3

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    The Battle of Narva (1700): A numerically superior force of Russians lost to the Swedes led by King Charles XII. The defeat was complete and the Russians lost all of their artillery that day. Russia would not recover from this humiliation until the Battle of Poltava.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Behind The Mask View Post
    The Battle of Narva (1700): A numerically superior force of Russians lost to the Swedes led by King Charles XII. The defeat was complete and the Russians lost all of their artillery that day. Russia would not recover from this humiliation until the Battle of Poltava.
    What about Holowoczyn, Jēkabpils, Malatitze and Fraustadt then?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by GustavIIAdolf View Post
    What about Holowoczyn, Jēkabpils, Malatitze and Fraustadt then?
    I consider the one I mentioned the earliest and worst at the opening of the era.

    I was also going to mention the Prut Campaign...

  6. #6

    Default

    Poltava was Sweden's maybe worst defeat in history. Sweden had been outnumbered during the whole Great Northern war usually in 3 or 4 to 1 numbers, however in this battle, the Russians outnumbered the Swedes by 2 to 1 but they had a strong defensive position and at this point the Swedish soldiers were exausted and hungry after a long march in which the Russians used scorched earth techniques on them, in which General Winter also had effect on them, with other words they fell for the same thing as Napoleon and Hitler basically

    Quote Originally Posted by Behind The Mask View Post
    I consider the one I mentioned the earliest and worst at the opening of the era.

    I was also going to mention the Prut Campaign...
    Was that against the turks? I'm intrested in that, please tell more.
    Last edited by jimkatalanos; December 25, 2008 at 11:43 AM. Reason: double post

  7. #7

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by GustavIIAdolf View Post
    Was that against the turks? I'm intrested in that, please tell more.
    Aye.

    The Prut Campaign was likely Russia's first attempt to act as a champion to Balkan Christians and push the Ottomans back. However, when the Russian Army invaded, the Balkan Christians (or atleast one of the sides) gave the supplies meant for Peter to the Turks. The Ottomans mobilized quickly and the Russian Army was trapped and surronded.

    The only thing that saved Peter was to sign a peace treaty removing his forces from Azov and Poland. His army was saved but the batt;e had nearly proved the end to Russia.

    Intrestingly enough, the Prut Campaign may be a terribly defeat for Sweden as well, for Charles refused to accompany the Turks, and when the negotiations b egam he couldn't influence anything.

    Had he been there he may have been able to regain all he had lost.

  8. #8
    Numenor's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lisbon
    Posts
    1,815

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Behind The Mask View Post
    Aye.

    The Prut Campaign was likely Russia's first attempt to act as a champion to Balkan Christians and push the Ottomans back. However, when the Russian Army invaded, the Balkan Christians (or atleast one of the sides) gave the supplies meant for Peter to the Turks. The Ottomans mobilized quickly and the Russian Army was trapped and surronded.

    The only thing that saved Peter was to sign a peace treaty removing his forces from Azov and Poland. His army was saved but the batt;e had nearly proved the end to Russia.

    Intrestingly enough, the Prut Campaign may be a terribly defeat for Sweden as well, for Charles refused to accompany the Turks, and when the negotiations b egam he couldn't influence anything.

    Had he been there he may have been able to regain all he had lost.

    Helping the otomans wouldnt be a great move neither... in terms of a political decision. i mean, otomans where considered europe's enemy.
    [IMG]

  9. #9
    jackwei's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    3,244

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Battle of Saratoga 1777:- Great decisive british defeat that turned the tide of the war and brought France into an alliance with the american rebels (USA).

    Battle of Chesapeake Bay 1781:- For the first time in a while the Royal Navy suffered a decisive defeat, which was the final blow to the British defeat at Yorktown and end of the american war of independence.

  10. #10
    Salem1's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,792

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by GustavIIAdolf View Post
    Poltava was Sweden's maybe worst defeat in history. Sweden had been outnumbered during the whole Great Northern war usually in 3 or 4 to 1 numbers, however in this battle, the Russians outnumbered the Swedes by 2 to 1 but they had a strong defensive position and at this point the Swedish soldiers were exausted and hungry after a long march in which the Russians used scorched earth techniques on them, in which General Winter also had effect on them, with other words they fell for the same thing as Napoleon and Hitler basically
    Correction, it was 3-to-1 at Poltava as well. Not the entire Swedish force took part in the fighting. The Russians also had around 110 artillery pieces, we had none. We also had no ammunition. The Battle of Poltava is often cited as some sort of massive Russian victory, but it was really Karl XII who defeated himself by invading unprepared and then ignoring the Swedish supply force, which wasn't far away at all and then got routed by the Russians. The Russians had everything you could possibly wish for at Poltava yet we almost broke their army, and that's without Karl XII leading it. Strategically of course, Poltava was a huge victory.

    Lots of things to add in
    Last edited by Salem1; December 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quite a large number of Swedes here...
    I'd say Saratoga too: The outcome was about as favourable as the Americans could have wanted. The British surrendered because the treaty said they would simply be allowed to leave America. The British gave up without too much of a fight and the Americans then reneged on the deal. The British could have inflicted huge casualties on the Americans if they had refused the truce. As it was, this brought France into the war on the side of the Americans, broke the desire for war in Britain and took a large number of British soldiers out of the war.

    Battle of Cowpens: What is there to be said about this? British stupidity coupled with American tactical aptitude lead to a terrible British defeat.

    Battle of Yorktown: Effectively the end of the war of independence.

    Crossing of the Delaware: The war could probably have been brought to an end right here. At leas the ordered opposition could have. This was mostly a Prussian failure though but they were fighting for the Brits. George Washington's ability to Get his continentals to fight in these circumstances was nothing short of amazing.

  12. #12
    Atterdag's Avatar Tro og Håb
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the Valley of the Wind
    Posts
    6,691

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Probably Helsingborg 1710.
    Yeah, Helsingborg it is.
    Granted Lettre de Marque by King Henry V - Spurs given by imb39
    Сканија је Данска

    عیسی پسر مریم گفت :' جهان است پل ، عبور بیش از آن است ، اما هیچ ساخت خانه بر آن او امیدوار است که برای یک روز ، ممکن است برای ابدیت امیدواریم ، اما ماندگار جهان اما ساعت آن را صرف در دعا و نماز برای استراحت است نهان

    All of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.
    Otto von Bismarck


  13. #13
    MekongFisher's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Culloden 1746. Despite being Korean, I mentally consider myself a Celtic.

    Or little early, but Battle of Zenta. Worst Ottoman defeat that I know of.

    Or Karansebes, 1788. Whoever heard of 9000 losses while fighting their own army......

  14. #14
    BritPatriot1815's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
    Posts
    950

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Has to be the Yanky rev., both sides fought well but history had other ideas
    How far will I go for Rome? At least to the end of the street, I hate walking

  15. #15
    JoelPalsson's Avatar Foederatus
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salem1 View Post
    Correction, it was 3-to-1 at Poltava as well. Not the entire Swedish force took part in the fighting. The Russians also had around 110 artillery pieces, we had none. We also had no ammunition. The Battle of Poltava is often cited as some sort of massive Russian victory, but it was really Karl XII who defeated himself by invading unprepared and then ignoring the Swedish supply force, which wasn't far away at all and then got routed by the Russians. The Russians had everything you could possibly wish for at Poltava yet we almost broke their army, and that's without Karl XII leading it. Strategically of course, Poltava was a huge victory.

    Lots of things to add in
    Ah, what's with all the excuses? We lost, and that's it.
    ”You are an imperfect being,
    created by an imperfect being.
    Watch your future’s end!”

  16. #16
    Salem1's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,792

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelPalsson View Post
    Ah, what's with all the excuses? We lost, and that's it.
    We lost yes, but when you think of a war between Sweden and Russia, it's unfair to begin with because of the huge population difference and strategical situation. Take that, and add the conditions that the Swedes were fighting on at Poltava, plus the number of decisive defeats caused on the Russians and the other factions before that etc. etc.

    It's like a boxer getting beaten by a nobody who had managed to put sleep pills in the boxer's milk before the match after getting knockout'ed in each but the last round. Sure, he lost, but was it fair and satisfactory?

    Even the Swedes in history agree with this. They were pissed off after the GNW which can be reflected in movements such as Hats vs Caps and so on. I'm not denying that we lost or anything, I'm just putting in the conditions on which the battle was fought. Sure they're excuses, but then people won't just think ''oh Sweden, that little place in northern Europe which got its ass handed to it by Russia at Poltava, lewl!!'' without knowing why it happened.
    Last edited by Salem1; December 25, 2008 at 04:58 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Not sure.. I'm not very good at the history behind Sweden, can someone help me out here? What's our worst defeat?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salem1 View Post
    Correction, it was 3-to-1 at Poltava as well. Not the entire Swedish force took part in the fighting. The Russians also had around 110 artillery pieces, we had none. We also had no ammunition. The Battle of Poltava is often cited as some sort of massive Russian victory, but it was really Karl XII who defeated himself by invading unprepared and then ignoring the Swedish supply force, which wasn't far away at all and then got routed by the Russians. The Russians had everything you could possibly wish for at Poltava yet we almost broke their army, and that's without Karl XII leading it. Strategically of course, Poltava was a huge victory.

    Lots of things to add in
    I agree in part but it sounds as though the Russians at Poltava were still the ill force at Narva.

    The Swedes did well for the situation, but that can still be given to the fact that this army had seen some of the most extensive campaigning in Europe... But Peter had done his part to build an army thata would not rout when facing Swedish steel

    Though I dont want this to degenerate into a whole Poltava discussion. I am a Russian but I hold tyhe utmost respect for our good ole Swede Advesaries.

    Though ultimatly I believe the problem at Poltava was not numbers or tactics but rather poor communication among Swedish Commanders.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salem1 View Post
    We lost yes, but when you think of a war between Sweden and Russia, it's unfair to begin with because of the huge population difference and strategical situation. Take that, and add the conditions that the Swedes were fighting on at Poltava, plus the number of decisive defeats caused on the Russians and the other factions before that etc. etc.

    It's like a boxer getting beaten by a nobody who had managed to put sleep pills in the boxer's milk before the match after getting knockout'ed in each but the last round. Sure, he lost, but was it fair and satisfactory?

    Even the Swedes in history agree with this. They were pissed off after the GNW which can be reflected in movements such as Hats vs Caps and so on. I'm not denying that we lost or anything, I'm just putting in the conditions on which the battle was fought. Sure they're excuses, but then people won't just think ''oh Sweden, that little place in northern Europe which got its ass handed to it by Russia at Poltava, lewl!!'' without knowing why it happened.
    blah blah blah.

    You lose because you lost. If Mama had wheels she'd be a bus.

  20. #20
    Salem1's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,792

    Default Re: Your faction's worst defeats during this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Behind The Mask View Post
    I agree in part but it sounds as though the Russians at Poltava were still the ill force at Narva.

    The Swedes did well for the situation, but that can still be given to the fact that this army had seen some of the most extensive campaigning in Europe... But Peter had done his part to build an army thata would not rout when facing Swedish steel

    Though I dont want this to degenerate into a whole Poltava discussion. I am a Russian but I hold tyhe utmost respect for our good ole Swede Advesaries.

    Though ultimatly I believe the problem at Poltava was not numbers or tactics but rather poor communication among Swedish Commanders.
    What do you mean by ill?

    I agree on both parts, the foremost Russian weakness wasn't their fighting ability but how quickly they'd rout. That's why Sweden could wage war against Russia in the first place. Although I do believe this had something to do with the image that Swedish soldiers had among their enemies, I think that after Poltava, just like the German one of WW2 and other myths of invincibility, the Swedish one was broken.

    Me neither, but a few posts won't hurt. Good to hear, I must say that the Swedish-Russian adversary thing is much like the British-French one. It's sort of a good ol' tradition, and for sure, I respect you Russians as well. You did give it to us in the end.

    I believe it was a combination of numbers and poor communication myself. The Russians at Poltava and Narva were fairly well-trained and armed. The difference was that at Poltava, those numbers were being put to good use in a defensive, prepared battle of attrition. Kudos to Peter for thinking that one out instead of meeting the Swedish army at the field again.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •