Manzikert 1071 - New Historical Battle

[Pinotchet09]

Manzikert_1071 (Broken Crescent) - status: 99%, release date: 23 - 28 December ???









please visit my topic: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...90#post4152690

[Ahiga]

Very interesting

[Otsman]

i love you man

[Commander Ruunu]

Yay!! Some life into Broken Crescent forum

[Kara Kolyo]

Nice! Do you plan other battles with BC? Like Hattin, Arsouf, that big georgian battle against the Seljuqs at Didgori etc? +rep

[AnthoniusII]

Great...Just a humple request..
Can you change the word "byzantine" with "Roman"?

[Tadzreuli]

wow, this is great news, thanks ! this is , what I need ! ..... and what about other greatest historical battles ? such: battle of Dorileium (1096), siege of Antioch (1097); siege of Jerusalem (1099), battle of Didgori (1121), Battle of Ager Sanguinis (1119); battle of Hattin (1187).....

[Big Pacha]

Looks really nice for a much expected HB but I'll have 2 interrogations.
- Is it balanced? I hardly see how the Turks could lose here and the real battle wasn't that easy to win.
- Why not take the Turkish Sultanate rather than the Seljuks? I guess by that time they're still the same faction, to be divided later with the Sultanate of Rum (appropriate name of this "turkish sultanate"), craddle of the Osmani Empire.

Looking for the download

[Death Merchant]

Thats nowhere near balanced, that will be a walk in the park for the turks

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

How did you get battle editor on Bc and no it wont be a walk in the park for the turks the roman cavalry will own.

[AnthoniusII]

Just a detail...Seljucks were NOT more than Romans!
Even rightout of the Roman army split the army with the emperor had a number slightly higher than the turks!
You must also change the Roman roster...
You must add Cumans/Pejenengs (actually they opened the battle and later deserted to the turks)and "Latinikon"...
A good sugestion would be to replace Kontaratoi(pikemen) with Cumans,
Replace 2 of the 3 units of cataphractoi with merc mounted knights!
Add expirience to the varangs(they were proffesional soldiers),Spatharioi bodygaurds,and afcourse in Cumans/Pejenengs and Latinikon!
We must not forget that water and treason were the main reasons for that defeat!!!

This description(like a telegrame)was my help to Manuel Komnenos for his paper to his university(he studys History)!

Battle of Matziquert

With little words like a telegram

Persons related to battle :
Romanus IV Diogenes Emperor of the Roman Empire.
Manuel Komnenos Kouropalates
Ioannes Dukas Kaisar
Andronikus Dukas (Megas?) Dux
Joseph Tarchaneiates Magistrus
Nikephorus Vasilakius Majistrus Katepano
Nikephorus Vryennius Domestikus ton scholon tes Dyseos
Theodorus Alleates General-Dux of Kappadokia
Russelius de Bayell Etairiarches ton Latinikon
Michael Attaleiates Historian (describer of the whole campaign).


Arp Aslan Sultan (leader of the seljuk/turkoman confederacy)...
Nizam al Mulk General


Pre battle events:
1:Kouropalates Manuel Komnenos signs a non aggression pact with the Arp Aslan with very good terms for the empire...
2:Manuel Komnenos dies early 1071(or late 1070)...
3:Arp Aslan begins hostilities with Fatimids and Khwresmians at the same time...
4: Turkomanic tribal forces raid the empire's east territories and capture the city of Matziquert (maybe) without orders of Arp Aslan.
5:Imperial council insists that is the right time to expand (Arp Aslan already fights in two fronts).
6: Emperor orders the troops to be gathered in Ellenopollis at the army's Aplicton(camp)...
7:Army's numbers 200000-400000 according to Turkish historians of that time 60000 according to Cheynet …(estimated 60000-90000).
8:Army has Greek/romans,Iberians(Georgians),Armenians, Francs(latinicon),Rus(varangs)and skythicon(Allans and Pejenegs).
9:Emperor marches to Theodosioupollis to gather more "thematic"troops.
10:Emperor sieges Matziquert(estimated dates 15-20 of August).
11:Arp Aslan sieges Edessa
12:Sultan orders Nizam al Mulk to gather troops and help sheal the paths to his
rear.
13:Emperor sends Russelius to Hliat to conquer the city…
14:Emperor has no news from Russelius and decides to send Tarchaneiates with
20000 heavy cavalry(mostly Armenian nobles/cataphracts) to find him and then to return to assist him as soon as
possible.
15:Arp Aslan arrives at 17th or 24th of August…
16:Arp Aslan holds highlands and a water spring…


Battle events:
-1 day:
1:Turkish recon force provokes Byzantines..
2:Nikephorus Vryennius responds to the trap and counter attack .
He is in the middle of the trap and asks help…
3:Emperor orders Nikephorus Vasilacius to help the trapped general!
4:N. Vryennius is safe but N.Vasilakius captured by the turks.
5:Army withdraws for the night.
6:Turkish forces doing night attack…




Day of the battle: (19 or 26 of August)..
1:Emperor orders the army to take position..but still has no clear view for
the Seljuk army.
2:Emmisaries from Arp Aslan arrive to the imperial camp with peace
proposals.
3:Emperor’s council convinced him that the sultan’s offering is an act of
weakness.
4:Allans start to fight with out orders.
5:Emperor still waits the Hliat forces to return .
6:It is already midday and Emperor orders the army to march.
7:Emperor leads the center and his is slightly ahead from the rest of
the army. And turks commit fake retreat..
8:Turks surrounds emperor .
9:Nikephorus Vryennius tries to help emperor but falls in a trap and
Gets surrounded him self also…
10: Pejenegs go to Turkish side.
11: Emperor orders reform but the second line (under the orders of
Andronicus Dukas ) sees it as a retreat…
12:Emperor gets wounded and captured by the Seljuks!!!

After battle events:
1:Arp Aslan treats emperor with honour. He gives emperor a bodyguard
force .
2:Ioannes Dukas claim the throne for his nephew Michael Dukas.
3: Diogenes finds refuge to Antioch and an ally the catepano of the
city Hatatorius (an Armenian).
4: Diogenes marches to the castle of Addana and waits the winder to pass.
5: Ioannes and Andronikus Dukas siege the castle…
6: Hatatorius tries to brake the siege but gets captured…
7: Diogenes surrenders (his is wearing the monks cloth)!
Conspiracy theories:
1:We found both Russelius and Tarchaneiates 150 kms away from the battle
at Meletene .They had almost half or one third of the army with them…
2: Andronikus Dukas had better position to help the emperor ,instead he
orders retreat…
3:Ioannes Dukas claim his nephew as the new emperor to fast .No one
knows if the emperor is dead or alive and when it is clear that he is
alive they claim him a traitor not a returning emperor.


Notice: Nikephorus Vryennius soldiers were known as ‘Loricati” ….

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

there are no cumans in BC but kapchaks and the Kavariolli knights are erupean knights if you read the ui.

[cottontail]

It won't be a walk in the park for the Turks, the Romans get 390 friggin Catapracths! That's alot of pure armored fury! Take a look at the Roman bodyguard unti! it's huge! The Romans have a friggin tank army to balance out all the Turkish archers.

[Fenix_120]

It won't be a walk in the park for the Turks, the Romans get 390 friggin Catapracths! That's alot of pure armored fury! Take a look at the Roman bodyguard unti! it's huge! The Romans have a friggin tank army to balance out all the Turkish archers.

One super elite unit in an army of very few elites does not balance out to two army of elite units.



Also remove the Turkish Exp bonus or move the ERE to the same level seeing as how they are already out numbered 2 to 1.


Edit: please.

[Kara Kolyo]

@ Emperor - Kypchak is just another name for cuman.
Otherwise probably the seljuqs should have more tribal HA instead of askari?

[The Noble Lord]

Great work Pinotchet, when it's gonna be finished??

And Battle of Manzikert would've definitely been won if it wasn't for the treachery of the Dukas family.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

i know there kypchaks he just still thought there are still merc cumans so i corrected him.

and how did you get Battle editor to work with BC.

[Pinotchet09]

Manzikert_1071 (Broken Crescent)- released, download link: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=2238

[Nizam]

zerg seljuk styl is wrong.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

way too many horse archers but i ended in a draw angist the sejuks. how could this happen? barbarians actully drawed me out! and playing as the sejuks it was fore gone conculsion unlike the real battle was.