SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

[Raglan]

m/m the recommended difficulty

[Athenian Strategos]

so it wont work h/vh ?

[Hesus de bodemloze]

so it wont work h/vh ?

It will work but you will fail in the long rung. The game is developed to be played on M/M settings with the Roman faction, 4tpy/garrison script and if you really want to have a blast you will use the house rules and kill sheet.

[Raglan]

yeah, you can try, but i will give you a fair warning, the game gets harder the longer you play, not necissarily edge of utter disastar hard, but far more difficult to achieve anything. This makes it incrediably difficult on the harder settings. It is a notable fact that we have never as far as i know had anyone complete this game, or stick with it on harder settings.

[Athenian Strategos]

yeah, you can try, but i will give you a fair warning, the game gets harder the longer you play, not necissarily edge of utter disastar hard, but far more difficult to achieve anything. This makes it incrediably difficult on the harder settings. It is a notable fact that we have never as far as i know had anyone complete this game, or stick with it on harder settings.

I see , though i got owned by Germans when i got Patavium, and Greeks attacked southern Italy so i will probably lose with 4 legions left

[Mister Classified]

Want to play like real romans with real tactics.

http://www.roman-empire.net/army/tactics.html

This page contains roman tactics and some other information about ... stuff.

[Vespasian92]

Ummm... yeah. Basically anyone who gets this mod are the Roman history geeks who want more historical accuracy in their Rome: Total war. So that probably wasnt really necessary to post.

[YourzZ]

Is it weird that I have more trouble fighting the gauls than fighting hannibal and theophanes?
I've used the tactics vs hannibal/theophanes and finished them off relatively easy (500-700 losses on my side, 3200+ losses on theirs) and then tried to get rid of the Gaulic armies that went for genua and arminium (the northeastern town if thats correct) by using the tactics described here. The weird thing is that i litteraly had like 20 meters between my lines and the enemies lines and they just refused to attack me, my troops just threw their pilas and velites and almost killed their first line, I had to attack them before they would do anything (at all! they just stood there). The end result was 1700 losses for me and 3000 for them, which means that my legion is pretty much useless at this moment to defend genua. What did I do wrong, i was under the impression that those gauls would be easier to deal with than the carthaginians.

ps. is it normal for gaul to have 3 gaulic armies in roman territory within 2 turns (2 armies went to genua, 1 attacked it and 1 is just standing 2 cm to the right of the attacking army) and 1 gaulic army to ariminium?

[czePowerslave]

It is very much normal yes. Gauls will be pounding your doors with GREAT force alot.
One of my suggestions, that might not be approved by rest, is to hire load of mercenaries early. They have experience, huge cavalry stacks and can be very helpful. Against Gauls, you need other tactics. You´ll come to it trust me

[saienga]

Gauls

Their behavior can be just as you described from time to time. They tend to come like rain when they come.

One thing though:

Did you toggle your infantry into tight formation? Their default is loose and if you toggle to tight (the "u" key in the FPS style keyboard config), they'll fair much, much better against barbarians. It's like using a hammer on pancakes...far better at punching holes and crushing than using another pancake.

[czePowerslave]

But beware of cavalry. Always adapt your tactics pending on what your enemy brings to the combat.

[Nano_Magnus]

Basic tactics against Gauls

1.- Use Hastati with shield wall and defensive mode
2.- Flank them with 2 cavalry and 2 infantry units for suport
3.- Hunt enemy cavalry with triari
4.- Increase the moral of the front line with your general
5.- Hold the front line as much as you can, then micromanage your cavalry using the hit and run tactic
6.- and finally launch a full attack (don't forgeth to turn your hastati from defensive to ofensive mode)

[YourzZ]

Hmm, thanks for the pointers everyone, but I pretty much followed the same tactics already. The second attempt of the fight went a bit better, had 300 casualties less and 400 kills more. This time however I had the high ground (does that really have this big an impact or is this the game going on a whim ?)

Last Friday In turn 6 the Greek suddenly decided to turn up and make trouble at beneventum (without a wall of sorts and was just overrun ffs). Does the same tactics also apply for fighting the Greek as you do the Gaul and/or carthaginians? I'm not using the shield wall tactics because I'm pretty sure i've read somewhere that vs the hoplite spears you get more casualties that way (keeping tabs on too many forumsections and topics over here ).

[czePowerslave]

Against Greeks yes. Especially Spartans. Bring slingers, velites and whatever can shoot something and tire/wear/shoot/stab them down.

And high ground does matter GREATLY. I defeated both Carthage starting armies using high ground and also to add, crappy AI ability to move.

[YourzZ]

Against Greeks yes. Especially Spartans. Bring slingers, velites and whatever can shoot something and tire/wear/shoot/stab them down.

And high ground does matter GREATLY. I defeated both Carthage starting armies using high ground and also to add, crappy AI ability to move.

3 velites + 2 slingers, worked brilliantly. A slightly battered army totally slaughtered the invading greeks. I couldn't believe it myself, 76 losses vs 1800 kills. The greeks had the hastati level hoplites making up 80% of their army of 16 units but still I would have thought that their phalanx style would make up for something. The single spartan unit they had was hard to kill though, however the AI attacked my entire army in the beginning with just that unit, made me chuckle a bit > like 5 groups of units + 2 velites massacred them without any serious problems

Now on to retaking Genua and getting back Sicily, yay my borders are relatively secure

[YourzZ]

Dear God, the spartans have 3 armies raping sicily at the moment, and in all three armies the infantry is made up of totally spartans. Is there any special way of countering them more easily, because I manage to win but at too high a cost.

[Gauliez]

'Spartans' and 'easily' are two words that just don't fit together

What you might try is reinforcing your Legion with a Cavalry Auxilia wing (if you're enough advanced tech-wise to build Cavalry Auxilia -> Pro-Consul Palace)
Concretely, you will have several Cavalry Auxilia units hanging in a group around your main Legion. Then when fighting, first enter with the Cavalry Auxilia, throw their javelins at the ennemies to soften them up, and then retreat the Cavalry and bring in your Legion to finish the job.

I have no clue if it will work with Spartans, as I never tried it myself, but i think some older players got decent results with similar strategy, against British chariots if i remember well That way, you simulate a cavalry alae (=wing) softening up the ennemy before the Legion comes into the fight, and therefore stay in the spirit of the House Rules

[YourzZ]

'Spartans' and 'easily' are two words that just don't fit together

What you might try is reinforcing your Legion with a Cavalry Auxilia wing (if you're enough advanced tech-wise to build Cavalry Auxilia -> Pro-Consul Palace)
Concretely, you will have several Cavalry Auxilia units hanging in a group around your main Legion. Then when fighting, first enter with the Cavalry Auxilia, throw their javelins at the ennemies to soften them up, and then retreat the Cavalry and bring in your Legion to finish the job.

I have no clue if it will work with Spartans, as I never tried it myself, but i think some older players got decent results with similar strategy, against British chariots if i remember well That way, you simulate a cavalry alae (=wing) softening up the ennemy before the Legion comes into the fight, and therefore stay in the spirit of the House Rules

As a matter of fact I just got access to them, will try that in the next few turns. How I'm avoiding to battle multiple Greek armies at once at the moment is like this: get a fleet and an legion + a spy. Spy looks for the weakest army, land nearby and attack them with my legion and go back into the ship to the other side of the island . Now I'm not sure if that's allowed in the houserules? but i managed to destroy two out of the 5 legions already (primarily the ones with only 2 or 3 spartan units in them) with a total of 6800+ kills and max 200 losses . Now onto the 3 spartan armies, those are going to be a bi tch > had those 3 spartan units surrounded by 9 units, and they just refused to rout (does anybody know if the the spartan units, historically speaking, ever routed even once?)

[lt1956]

Maybe late in there history but not early, the would withdraw, but as for break and run they couldnt. they would have no home or state then.

As for your tactics, You really arent playing like you should, when did rome ever just send one legion to attack for war? never, they would be slaughtered. This is why Rome had Legions and Auxilia, good example is a legion 5000 men at full strength but they had auxilia which swelled them to about 15000 for one legion full strength. If they didnt they would NEVER be able to hold the empire. This is why SPQR allows so many units that can be afforded if you handle your economy right. When you atatck Greece you come in overwelming FORCE 3 Legions atleast 3 auxilia or more, then you can have each one of them fight a different army. Sure you may not be able to pull them to full strength but its realistic neither did rome, so protect your legionaries sacrifice auxilia.

Good example to Invade a Nation serious, especially after carthage is gone and your Post Marius. Remember the Passive Nations are the worst as they have the most Armies laying around.

3 Numbered Legions
3-6 Auxilia Alae Legions
2 Cavalry Alae maybe about 10 horse unit each one.
1 Siege Group with weapons
1-2 Archers/Javelin for Sieges.

When you attack a City with the garrison script you Hit it with Multiple Armies, Example First army Archers and Ballistas then retreat them when they are empty, then allow reinforcements of Infantry to Storm the walls and gates. Since RTW cannot properly give use the men to siege a full garrison town you need to do it yourself. Also if you want you can give the AI control of Infantry, they seem to do pretty good with them or cavalry, missiles units mixed in they dont do well.

There is alot of money in SPQR compared to other games, but you will NEED it if you wish to win without cheats. Rome had 28-32 legions for a reason besides their Alae, that should let you know how much is needed to run an empire about 500,000 men which legions were only about 160,000 men. In one of my campaigns my first attempt to take carthage failed, I had to withdraw and come back later, this is the fun in SPQR campaign, you get pushed back and have to deal with other issues before your return.

Never load saved games unless you crash, and NEVER prevent the civil war no matter how painful. By micromanaging your cities all the time you will see which governors are rebellion and can stop it before the next turn, If I could have I would prevent ANY possibility of stopping it, but I couldnt. So if you do your cheating. just note on that.

Making Legions of all one type of unit is a cheat also, the AI is balanced to attack your legions that are balanced right, the AI will act funny for some because of the way they play.

ALSO you shouldnt have whole armies of Spartans in your game, they can only recruit them in 2 spots and they are not high priority so unless you call an army 5 units it shouldnt be, SPQR armies are 18-20 units strong.

[YourzZ]

Maybe late in there history but not early, the would withdraw, but as for break and run they couldnt. they would have no home or state then.

As for your tactics, You really arent playing like you should, when did rome ever just send one legion to attack for war? never, they would be slaughtered. This is why Rome had Legions and Auxilia, good example is a legion 5000 men at full strength but they had auxilia which swelled them to about 15000 for one legion full strength. If they didnt they would NEVER be able to hold the empire. This is why SPQR allows so many units that can be afforded if you handle your economy right. When you atatck Greece you come in overwelming FORCE 3 Legions atleast 3 auxilia or more, then you can have each one of them fight a different army. Sure you may not be able to pull them to full strength but its realistic neither did rome, so protect your legionaries sacrifice auxilia.

Good example to Invade a Nation serious, especially after carthage is gone and your Post Marius. Remember the Passive Nations are the worst as they have the most Armies laying around.

3 Numbered Legions
3-6 Auxilia Alae Legions
2 Cavalry Alae maybe about 10 horse unit each one.
1 Siege Group with weapons
1-2 Archers/Javelin for Sieges.

When you attack a City with the garrison script you Hit it with Multiple Armies, Example First army Archers and Ballistas then retreat them when they are empty, then allow reinforcements of Infantry to Storm the walls and gates. Since RTW cannot properly give use the men to siege a full garrison town you need to do it yourself. Also if you want you can give the AI control of Infantry, they seem to do pretty good with them or cavalry, missiles units mixed in they dont do well.

There is alot of money in SPQR compared to other games, but you will NEED it if you wish to win without cheats. Rome had 28-32 legions for a reason besides their Alae, that should let you know how much is needed to run an empire about 500,000 men which legions were only about 160,000 men. In one of my campaigns my first attempt to take carthage failed, I had to withdraw and come back later, this is the fun in SPQR campaign, you get pushed back and have to deal with other issues before your return.

Never load saved games unless you crash, and NEVER prevent the civil war no matter how painful. By micromanaging your cities all the time you will see which governors are rebellion and can stop it before the next turn, If I could have I would prevent ANY possibility of stopping it, but I couldnt. So if you do your cheating. just note on that.

Making Legions of all one type of unit is a cheat also, the AI is balanced to attack your legions that are balanced right, the AI will act funny for some because of the way they play.

ALSO you shouldnt have whole armies of Spartans in your game, they can only recruit them in 2 spots and they are not high priority so unless you call an army 5 units it shouldnt be, SPQR armies are 18-20 units strong.

Thanks for the info, I do try to follow the rules as much as possible, specially regarding tactics and legion make up. I'm currently busy with forming those auxiliary armies, but yes i do have 3 enemy Greek armies where the bulk of their infantry forces is made up out of spartan units (aprox. 10 ) + some weaker hoplite units (2 to 4) + archers and cavalry (totalling 20 units). And I don't know why they have those, but they're there, unfortunately screen shots are black over here.

Now found some kind of solution to it, i'll try to find an old save to show u their make up.