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Thread: The Shadow of Ishtar - The Beginning

  1. #41
    Venta Icenor Um's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Wouldn't 753bc (The year Rome was founded) be a better start date? it's only roughly 60 years difference, my three reasons are

    1. Rome is founded, Rome are therefore playable from the start, you can't have too many emergant factions, they just stifle choice
    2. Greece is in the latter part of a dark age which was caused by the Doric invasions and the fall of the Mycenean and Aetolian civilizations, not much written records of this period survive, it was during the 8th century BC when Greek culture began to re emerge
    3. The Etruscans began to seperate themselves from Villanovan culture in this period, they became more civilized and founded more villages towards the end of the 8th century.

    Also i would like to make a request for inclusion of the Urartu Faction
    http://www.tacentral.com/erebuni/nairi.asp
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Urartu
    Those who live by the sword, Play Total War




  2. #42
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Quote Originally Posted by Venta Icenor Um View Post
    Wouldn't 753bc (The year Rome was founded) be a better start date? it's only roughly 60 years difference, my three reasons are

    1. Rome is founded, Rome are therefore playable from the start, you can't have too many emergant factions, they just stifle choice
    2. Greece is in the latter part of a dark age which was caused by the Doric invasions and the fall of the Mycenean and Aetolian civilizations, not much written records of this period survive, it was during the 8th century BC when Greek culture began to re emerge
    3. The Etruscans began to seperate themselves from Villanovan culture in this period, they became more civilized and founded more villages towards the end of the 8th century.

    Also i would like to make a request for inclusion of the Urartu Faction
    http://www.tacentral.com/erebuni/nairi.asp
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Urartu

    Request Granted. The Urartu Faction will be added.

    I would also like to thank you for your insight.

  3. #43
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    i dont know if its so good to move the starting date forward an other time its just 60 years less playing time

    and it could be interesting to re emerge the greece culture ad bring it back to glory

    rome was a citiy earlier than 753
    it just sounds better for the historians that is was founded on a exact day "first it was a small village and after time it became a city" dont sound so glamorous


    maybe we could use the papal system with the greec cities without the cardinales of course
    the papal faction is olympia and they give all the other greec cities missions and sometimes stop wars between them and call a "crusade" on cities in italy and turkey
    Last edited by Stephan; December 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM.

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  4. #44

    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    urartu faction and nairi faction were both forefathers of ARmenians, been to some Urartian places in Armenia though most is in modern day Turkey and destroyed, i have some images

  5. #45
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    i dont know if its so good to move the starting date forward an other time its just 60 years less playing time

    and it could be interesting to re emerge the greece culture ad bring it back to glory

    rome was a citiy earlier than 753
    it just sounds better for the historians that is was founded on a exact day "first it was a small village and after time it became a city" dont sound so glamorous


    maybe we could use the papal system with the greec cities without the cardinales of course
    the papal faction is olympia and they give all the other greec cities missions and sometimes stop wars between them and call a "crusade" on cities in italy and turkey
    Yes, that would be the best way to exploit the Crusade/Papal system of MII:Total War. Great idea.

  6. #46
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Just an update. The Nubians will have to be gotten rid of. In their place I've just realised we have the Kushite Empire. During our timespan the area to the West of Libya and South of Carthage were dominated by the Berber Tribes. So we'll have to either make them as rebels, or make a Berber faction.
    i think Numidia would be better
    and which greek city states would you suggest
    athen, sparta, thebes and olympia probably

    AND WE STILL NEED HELP SO JUST PM KEMALRAIK OR ME
    Last edited by Stephan; December 25, 2008 at 05:53 PM.

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  7. #47
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    i think Numidia would be better
    and which greek city states would you suggest
    athen, sparta, thebes and olympia probably

    AND WE STILL NEED HELP SO JUST PM KEMALRAIK OR ME
    Unfortunately Numidia went on from 202BC-46BC, so they wouldn't fit into our time line.

    Yes, those seem like good choices for the Greek Cities.

  8. #48
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    heres a sign i made hope you like it



    http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6...fishtarhh8.jpg

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  9. #49
    maxi90's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    this is a great idea for a mod, since there are not many mods for this date. however, i have a few comments about factions.
    1. considering the period you have chosen, i think rome should´t be include in the mod (at least not as a faction). the reason is that at this point rome was merely a big village, or a town as much. rome wasn´t really relevant in a global sigth until 500 b.c(wich is the exacly time when this mod ends), and till then, it was just the same as all the other minor cities of Italy who were conquered and re-conquered over and over. so i think it would be wrong to set a faction that will be relevant in about 300 years, and to expel others that are much more important at the moment. besides, rome was founded in 753 b.c
    2.Athens is just the same as rome, so you know. i would recomend to replace it with Myecen (Micenas in spanish, is it rigth?)
    3.Cartage...hhmmm... i don´t know. it was a colony of Tire (don´t know if it is it´s english name, in spanish is Tiro), plus, it was founded the same year the mod starts, so maybe it would fit better if you make Tire a faction, and Cartage one of it´s cities.
    4.you could use the eneid (eneida) as a reference for some of the italian cities and their units, as they are highly descrived in the books VII, VIII,IV, and X, i think

  10. #50
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    its the great thing about medieval 2 or any other tw game you can change history maybe in our time frame these cities wern't that important but you can make them
    and its not like we will make them as strong as they were in rome they will have a really though start
    carthage will really needs the money from tyre and rome must be careful not to get crushed by the etrucians in the first rounds


    and maybe we didn't say it but historical correctness is not the most important thing in our mod

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  11. #51
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    heres a sign i made hope you like it



    http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6...fishtarhh8.jpg
    Great sig, I love it.

  12. #52
    maxi90's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    ok, do as you wish. is your mod after all. it is just that i don´t see why did you choose that peruiod. i mean, why there will be no numidia in your mod? or why persia will merge in year x instead of start from the beggining?
    but, again, is your choice

    oh, btw, what do you think about using the eneida as reference for italic factions?

  13. #53
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    numidia wasnt existing at this period so we are using the more general berbers

    we could start persia from the beginning but i think they should be a faction that changes the later gameplay when the player is already very strong they make the later game more fun and different like the mongols did in vanilla
    Last edited by Stephan; December 26, 2008 at 03:39 PM.

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  14. #54
    maxi90's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    now that i read my own post i see that i didn´t made myself clear, sorry for that. what i meant is why to choose a time perios if you are not going to respect it? there are plenty of factions that were much more important at that time that rome, cartage, and athen. one didn´t even existed, and the other two were merely villages. what´s the point of including them as factions? i mean, i don´t think that you will give rome their legions, will you? as their warfare was pretty much the opposite at this time. the same goes for cartage, since they did´t use elephants until a long, long time had pass. and their army cannot be the same as the legendary Hannibal, i don´t think that a recently founded village would have the wealth to hire an army of mercenaries. and Athen, it wouldn´t have their democrassy, their philosophy, and their migthy navy, wich was what separate them from there fellows greeks.

    so rome won´t have the stronges army in the worls, it´s legions, wich made them... ROME. Cartage won´t have their strong economy (at least that would be logic, i don´t see any country that meage as a worl economic power the same day that it is founded, it takes centuries), or their elephants, wich made all the fun when plaing cartage in RTW. and Athen will be.... just a clone of it´s neighbers


    so why not to pick another factions instead of those? i am sure that there are plenty of candidates for it, that were much respectable back then. that is all what i´m saing. but again, your choice

  15. #55
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    ok at first rome existed before 753 that date is just what the roman historicans tell us
    so all the cities at least existed

    the roman legions are of course not in

    carthago will be a small village sorrounded by berbers tribes their beginning is going to be very difficult theyll get their good units later


    Athen will be.... just a clone of it´s neighbers
    yes thats true at first we wanted only one greek cities faction but i think its better with more even if they have almost the same units
    so we can use the papal system and represent that they wernt united

    and of course no army will be the same as in rome its 600 years earlier


    what would you do different if we keep the starting date or move it???

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  16. #56
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Good luck on this mod.
    However, there is already an Assyrian mod being made, both for RTW (click my sig) and for Kingdoms (too lazy to find the link now, lol)
    Good luck

  17. #57
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    i didnt know anything about a m2 assyrian mod hows the process?
    maybe we can share stuff later

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  18. #58
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    We have one or two models done and a bunch of faction symbols.
    The RTW one is going faster.

  19. #59
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    ok finished all the faction symbols
    preview later

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  20. #60
    maxi90's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Shadow of Ishtar

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    carthago will be a small village sorrounded by berbers tribes their beginning is going to be very difficult theyll get their good units later
    well, if it is going to be like that, i guess it could work. but i still belive that tire should be in, since it was a very strong city in this time in history



    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    yes thats true at first we wanted only one greek cities faction but i think its better with more even if they have almost the same units
    so we can use the papal system and represent that they wernt united
    what i would do is to pick the greek cities that have the gratest diferences between them fo this.
    fo example, you pick Sparta be cause it has the best infantry, and zero cavarly, and then you pick.. say Crete be couse of its archers and it naval power.
    but of course, there must be some standar units that will be same for all of them

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    and of course no army will be the same as in rome its 600 years earlier
    so what was the roman military back then? i have no idea, but i would guess that it was pretty much the same as other italian factions. maybe you could use a faction called "Latinum" or "The Latin States" that is located in Lazio, and make rome one of their villages :hmmm:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    what would you do different if we keep the starting date or move it???
    what i would do is to let the starting date as it is rigth now, and put rome as a revel village or as a settlement of another italian faction.
    but if you really want to use Rome as a faction, then i suggest you to move it to 753 bc. that way, you could also use cartago as a bigger settlement and as an independent faction (i still don´t recomend it, but this date fits better for this porpuse).

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