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Thread: Interesting Perspective on Terry Schiavo

  1. #1

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    Opinion
    Published on Friday, March 25, 2005
    FOCUS: Bigotry and the Murder of Terri Schiavo

    By JOE FORD


    “Misery can only be removed from the world by painless extermination of the miserable.”

    —a Nazi writer quoted by Robert J. Lifton in The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide

    The case of Terri Schiavo has been framed by the media as the battle between the “right to die” and pro-life groups, with the latter often referred to as “right-wing Christians.” Little attention has been paid to the more than twenty major disability rights organizations firmly supporting Schiavo’s right to nutrition and hydration. Terri Schindler-Schiavo, a severely disabled woman, is being starved and dehydrated to death in the name of supposed “dignity.” Polls show that most Americans believe that her death is a private matter and that her removal from a feeding tube—a low-tech, simple and inexpensive device used to feed many sick and disabled people—is a reasonable solution to the conflict between her husband and her parents over her right to life.

    The reason for this public support of removal from ordinary sustenance, I believe, is not that most people understand or care about Terri Schiavo. Like many others with disabilities, I believe that the American public, to one degree or another, holds that disabled people are better off dead. To put it in a simpler way, many Americans are bigots. A close examination of the facts of the Schiavo case reveals not a case of difficult decisions but a basic test of this country’s decency.

    Our country has learned that we cannot judge people on the basis of minority status, but for some reason we have not erased our prejudice against disability. One insidious form of this bias is to distinguish cognitively disabled persons from persons whose disabilities are “just” physical. Cognitively disabled people are shown a manifest lack of respect in daily life, as well. This has gotten so perturbing to me that when I fly, I try to wear my Harvard t-shirt so I can “pass” as a person without cognitive disability. (I have severe cerebral palsy, the result of being deprived of oxygen at birth. While some people with cerebral palsy do have cognitive disability, my articulation difference and atypical muscle tone are automatically associated with cognitive disability in the minds of some people.)

    The result of this disrespect is the devaluation of lives of people like Terri Schiavo. In the Schiavo case and others like it, non-disabled decision makers assert that the disabled person should die because he or she—ordinarily a person who had little or no experience with disability before acquiring one—“would not want to live like this.” In the Schiavo case, the family is forced to argue that Terri should be kept alive because she might “get better”—that is, might be able to regain or to communicate her cognitive processes. The mere assertion that disability (particularly cognitive disability, sometimes called “mental retardation”) is present seems to provide ample proof that death is desirable.

    Essentially, then, we have arrived at the point where we starve people to death because he or she cannot communicate their experiences to us. What is this but sheer egotism? Regardless of one’s religious beliefs, this is obviously an attempt to play God.

    Not Dead Yet, an organization of persons with disabilities who oppose assisted suicide and euthanasia, maintains that the starvation and dehydration of Terri Schiavo will put the lives of thousands of severely disabled children and adults at risk. (The organization takes its name from the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which a plague victim not dying fast enough is hit over the head and carted away after repeatedly insisting he is not dead yet.) Not Dead Yet exposes important biases in the “right to die” movement, including the fact that as early as 1988, Jack Kevorkian advertised his intention of performing medical experimentation (“hitherto conducted on rats”) on living children with spina bifida, at the same time harvesting their organs for reuse.

    Besides being disabled, Schiavo and I have something important in common, that is, someone attempted to terminate my life by removing my endotracheal tube during resuscitation in my first hour of life. This was a quality-of-life decision: I was simply taking too long to breathe on my own, and the person who pulled the tube believed I would be severely disabled if I lived, since lack of oxygen causes cerebral palsy. (I was saved by my family doctor inserting another tube as quickly as possible.) The point of this is not that I ended up at Harvard and Schiavo did not, as some people would undoubtedly conclude. The point is that society already believes to some degree that it is acceptable to murder disabled people.

    As Schiavo starves to death, we are entering a world last encountered in Nazi Europe. Prior to the genocide of Jews, Gypsies, and Poles, the Nazis engaged in the mass murder of disabled children and adults, many of whom were taken from their families under the guise of receiving treatment for their disabling conditions. The Nazis believed that killing was the highest form of treatment for disability.

    As the opening quote suggests, Nazi doctors believed, or claimed to believe, they were performing humanitarian acts. Doctors were trained to believe that curing society required the elimination of individual patients. This sick twisting of medical ethics led to a sense of fulfillment of duty experienced by Nazi doctors, leading them to a conviction that they were relieving suffering. Not Dead Yet has uncovered the same perverse sense of duty in members of the Hemlock Society, now called End-of-Life Choices. (In 1997, the executive director of the Hemlock Society suggested that judicial review be used regularly “when it is necessary to hasten the death of an individual whether it be a demented parent, a suffering, severely disabled spouse or a child.” This illustrates that the “right to die” movement favors the imposition of death sentences on disabled people by means of the judicial branch.)

    For an overview of what “end-of-life choices” mean for Schiavo, I refer you to the Exit Protocol prepared for her in 2003 by her health care providers (available online at http://www.cst-phl.com/050113/sixth.html). In the midst of her starvation, Terri will most likely be treated for “pain or discomfort” and nausea which may arise as the result of the supposedly humane process of bringing about her death. (Remember that Schiavo is not terminally ill.) She may be given morphine for respiratory distress and may experience seizures. This protocol confirms what we have learned from famines and death camps: death by starvation is a horrible death.

    This apparently is what it means to have “rights” as a disabled person in America today.

    Joe Ford ’06 is a government concentrator in Currier House.
    The slippery slope...where do we draw the line on what is human, and as such has rights, and on what isn't? I think euthanasia is a logical progression from abortion-on-demand, and I think we're going to see lines further blurred in the future. As most of us are, in some way, inferior to some other member of our species, how do we determine what constitutes 'disability', what degree of 'disability' is still human, and to what point the disabled deserve human rights?

    And you may say, 'but Aristo, they are all human and equally deserving of rights;' however, I'm likely to counter that disability is the prime argument in favour of abortion-that 'fetuses' aren't human because they cannnot perform all the functions of mature, healthy, adult humans.

    The question is really, 'well, where do we decide humanity lies, and what future repercussions can we expect from such a broad or narrow definition of humanity? What inclusion of human rights will there be?


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  2. #2

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    Great article!! Finally a well phrased argument for life! Took awhile :grin

    NM
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    My time here has ended. The time of the syntigmata has ended. Such is how these things are, and I accept it. In the several years I was a member of this forum, I fought for what I considered to be the most beneficial actions to enrich the forum. I regret none of my actions, and retain my personal honor and integrity.
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    It's well-phrased, and the author has a point, but the trouble lies in the word "disabled." Terri Schiavo isn't just disabled, she's a vegetable. There's a difference. Palsy is a completely different case.

    The doctor that removed the author's feeding tube as a baby was absolutely wrong, I'll give you that. But it's a different scenario. Here we know what's going to happen. Schiavo will remain where she is, with no conscious brain activity, for the rest of her life until a bed sore gets infected and she dies of a staph infection.

    It may be true that society is prejudiced against the disabled, and that's something we have to confront. But this isn't a case of prejudice against a retard (there, I said it you pc bastards) or another disability. This is someone who has no conscious thought, and her husband, the man she was closest to, believes she wouldn't have wanted to live this way. That, combined with the medical evidence, is good enough for me, and it's good enough for the florida supreme court.
    "Jamf was only a fiction, to help him explain what he felt so terribly, so immediately in his genitals for those rockets each time exploding in the sky... to help him deny what the could not possibly admit: that he might be in love, in sexual love, with his, and his race's, death." - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

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  4. #4

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    Originally posted by rububula@Mar 29 2005, 07:20 PM
    It's well-phrased, and the author has a point, but the trouble lies in the word "disabled." Terri Schiavo isn't just disabled, she's a vegetable. There's a difference. Palsy is a completely different case.

    The doctor that removed the author's feeding tube as a baby was absolutely wrong, I'll give you that. But it's a different scenario. Here we know what's going to happen. Schiavo will remain where she is, with no conscious brain activity, for the rest of her life until a bed sore gets infected and she dies of a staph infection.

    It may be true that society is prejudiced against the disabled, and that's something we have to confront. But this isn't a case of prejudice against a retard (there, I said it you pc bastards) or another disability. This is someone who has no conscious thought, and her husband, the man she was closest to, believes she wouldn't have wanted to live this way. That, combined with the medical evidence, is good enough for me, and it's good enough for the florida supreme court.
    The vegetative state is comprehended in degrees of disablement in much the same way I am disabled, when it comes to basketball, to a certain degree when compared to Michael Jordan.
    I don't believe it has been confirmed whether/how much she can think, and I don't believe our degree of mental aptitude/awareness should determine whether we live or die. [which is the sort of point you are trying to make]
    What I do know is that life, whether conscious or unconscious, unless married to unimaginable/incurable pain, is a lot better than death.

    I don't want to be disabled some how and for whatever reason[whether true or not] determined to be mentally unfit or incapable of making life and death choices. I don't want to be trapped, paralyzed in a body and starved to death by the decision of others.


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  5. #5

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    That's not really the point I was making. I don't believe we should go around unplugging vegetables and people in comas. However, Terri Schiavo can no longer voice her own opinion, and in fact is most likely incapable of having opinions in the first place, and her next of kin, who knew her better than any of us, believes she wouldn't have wanted to live like this. His argument that this would be her wish was strong enough to win in the courts. This is the law. Whether you would like your feeding tube removed is absolutely irrelevant.
    "Jamf was only a fiction, to help him explain what he felt so terribly, so immediately in his genitals for those rockets each time exploding in the sky... to help him deny what the could not possibly admit: that he might be in love, in sexual love, with his, and his race's, death." - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

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  6. #6

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    I don't want to be disabled some how and for whatever reason[whether true or not] determined to be mentally unfit or incapable of making life and death choices. I don't want to be trapped, paralyzed in a body and starved to death by the decision of others.
    If you are totally brain dead--do you care? I personaly would not want to be a drain on my family and others. The medical attention should go to another. I am convinvinced my life is not going to be one of mediocracy.

    NM
    Former Patron of: Sbsdude, Bgreman, Windblade, Scipii, Genghis Khan, Count of Montesano, Roman American, Praetorian Sejanus

    My time here has ended. The time of the syntigmata has ended. Such is how these things are, and I accept it. In the several years I was a member of this forum, I fought for what I considered to be the most beneficial actions to enrich the forum. I regret none of my actions, and retain my personal honor and integrity.
    Fallen Triumvir

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    If you are totally brain dead--do you care?
    exactly. I have a feeling that people still think that she is capable of some form of thought . Terri is dead and I hope she is happy wherever she is now, what is left is flesh animated by doctors that serves no purpose other than as a focal point for special interest groups and a way for the government to distract attention from other more important issues.

    Its just a variation on the Monica Lewinsky distraction imo.
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  8. #8

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    Originally posted by rububula@Mar 29 2005, 08:19 PM
    That's not really the point I was making. I don't believe we should go around unplugging vegetables and people in comas. However, Terri Schiavo can no longer voice her own opinion, and in fact is most likely incapable of having opinions in the first place, and her next of kin, who knew her better than any of us, believes she wouldn't have wanted to live like this. His argument that this would be her wish was strong enough to win in the courts. This is the law. Whether you would like your feeding tube removed is absolutely irrelevant.
    There happens to be a conflict of interest here, and I think it would be difficult to find many cases of people that severely disabled where there wouldn't be a conflict of interest. Taking care of and paying hospital bills for a family member who is significantly disabled is extremely expensive-thus there are pecuniary interests involved for whoever is paying the bill. But Michael Schiavo, husband and person seeking death for Terri, happens to have a live-in girlfriend and children by that woman. I believe he recently acquired a great deal of money as well.
    There are many things in this world which are both lawful and wrong, and I find it surprising you would have such blind faith in one American law, where you are, no doubt, often quick to condemn others.

    You may[or may not in this case] have noticed that I was not merely discussing Schiavo's case, but the entire problem surrounding the legal killing of members of our species. I noted that the reasons often given in support of abortion and euthanasia were very similar, and I asked the members here to consider that and perhaps propose either an alternate understanding or a solution to the dilemna of 'where to draw the line.'
    With such parameters drawn up for discussion, I hardly see how my concerns as per a feeding tube and its removal are 'irrelevant'. They may be irrelevant to you, but they certainly figure into the original context I built.

    I would also like to point out that some developed ability to reconstruct or regenerate brain tissues is certainly no impossibility withing the next few years. That the victim might not live the life he/she had before is immaterial compared to the second chance obtained.

    Finally, no one has suggested that Terri is totally 'brain dead,' that she is incapable or lacking completely in intellectual function. We have no positive way of knowing just how much she experiences.

    I think that we can all agree this has been far too politicized.


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  9. #9

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    Well, euthanasia is one discussion, Terry Schiavo is another. It's very nice if one's personal life is so pleasant that one cannot imagine anything worse than death. However, in my experience, sometimes that simply ain't so. A human being should have the right to die with dignity, without being forced to endured endless suffering mandated upon them by the dictates of society, the law, or Congress.

    As for Mrs. Schiavo, her brain CAT scans show extreme atrophy of nearly every section of the brain except the areas of autonomic function. She doesn't have the biological capacity to think. And that is a blessing, really. What more of a horror could there be, than to be sentenced to be strapped to a table, unable to move, in solitary confinement, unable to communicate with anyone for the rest of your life? Death would certainly be preferable, from my point of view, for myself.

    I'm against euthanasia, because those who end up making such decisions are always the least qualified to make such. And quality of life comes in many forms. No one can say that a person with Down's Syndrome, for example, cannot have a fulfilling life, just because that life is different from the norm.

    But a human being ought to have the right to decide on matters of their own life. In the Schiavo case, despite the troubling inheritance issue, I think the husband made the right choice, and the parents were indulging their own emotions at the expense of their daughter--more exactly, at the expense of their daughter's body, since she has been undead for 15 years.

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by morble@Mar 30 2005, 07:43 AM
    Well, euthanasia is one discussion, Terry Schiavo is another. It's very nice if one's personal life is so pleasant that one cannot imagine anything worse than death. However, in my experience, sometimes that simply ain't so. A human being should have the right to die with dignity, without being forced to endured endless suffering mandated upon them by the dictates of society, the law, or Congress.

    As for Mrs. Schiavo, her brain CAT scans show extreme atrophy of nearly every section of the brain except the areas of autonomic function. She doesn't have the biological capacity to think. And that is a blessing, really. What more of a horror could there be, than to be sentenced to be strapped to a table, unable to move, in solitary confinement, unable to communicate with anyone for the rest of your life? Death would certainly be preferable, from my point of view, for myself.

    I'm against euthanasia, because those who end up making such decisions are always the least qualified to make such. And quality of life comes in many forms. No one can say that a person with Down's Syndrome, for example, cannot have a fulfilling life, just because that life is different from the norm.

    But a human being ought to have the right to decide on matters of their own life. In the Schiavo case, despite the troubling inheritance issue, I think the husband made the right choice, and the parents were indulging their own emotions at the expense of their daughter--more exactly, at the expense of their daughter's body, since she has been undead for 15 years.
    Discussion of euthanasia and Terri Schiavo are one and the same because they deal with our concept of what it is to be an alive human being and as such, who merits human rights.
    It is alledged by her family that she can recognize individuals, and it's one thing to be strapped to a table in solitary confinement; but it's something else to have your family's love and constant presence and realize it.

    But a human being ought to have the right to decide on matters of their own life. In the Schiavo case, despite the troubling inheritance issue, I think the husband made the right choice,
    Cognitive dissonance? Terri Schiavo has not made a decision concerning her own life for 15 years.


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  11. #11

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    No, it's not the same discussion. No one's removing the feeding tube because she "isn't human" or whatever. The feeding tube is being removed because her husband has determined that she would not want to live this way, and he was able to make a strong enough case to convince the florida supreme court.

    There's no real conflict of interest on the husband's part. It's been 15 years: of course he has a new girlfriend. Any of us would, you can't hold it against him. He's come to terms with the fact that his wife isn't coming back, and he's prepared to let her die with dignity.

    Terri Schiavo is not being denied her rights. The judgement of her guardian is that this would be her wish.

    You say, who are we to say what Terri Schiavo is capable of thinking. I say, who are we to judge the husband and his motives, and make assumptions about what Terri Schiavo would want. We really know nothing about her.
    "Jamf was only a fiction, to help him explain what he felt so terribly, so immediately in his genitals for those rockets each time exploding in the sky... to help him deny what the could not possibly admit: that he might be in love, in sexual love, with his, and his race's, death." - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

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  12. #12
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    I understand the concerns of the author of the article--he's got a point about social prejudice against the disabled, and in his position I would likely be defensive as well. But I don't think that what's going on is as sinister as he believes. The question is not if Terri Schiavo is 'fit to live', it is if she would WANT to live in state she is currently in, and I don't think it's an unreasonable question. It's also a hard question to consider objectively. I think, to a certain degree, all of us are influenced by what OUR answer would be. I would not want my body to be kept "alive" if my mind was gone, and that certainly colors my feelings on the Schiavo case. The author of the article, I gather, would want to remain connected to the feeding tube--and that colors his views as well.

    But I don't really feel that Schiavo's case is comparable to his. He is disabled, but he is a conscious, thinking person (and, might I add, an eloquent one). Schiavo is not. The medical testing has shown that the parts of her brain capable of thought have degenerated to liquid. He condemns pulling the plug just because "she cannot communicate her experiences to us", but I think the issue is, she's not HAVING experiences. The person who was Terri Schiavo is gone. All that's left is her body, and the only reason it's still functioning is because it's hooked up to a machine. It seems to me that, really, she's already dead, and that they should let her finally rest in peace. But perhaps that's just my own wishes talking again.
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    Seeing as the point is still being missed by the resident sophisticates, I thought I'd include another opinion to 'clarify' things:


    Public execution
    Mark Steyn

    New Hampshire

    Do you remember a fellow called Robert Wendland? No reason why you should. I wrote about him in this space in 1998, and had intended to return to the subject but something else always intervened — usually Bill Clinton’s penis, which loomed large, at least metaphorically, over the entire era. Mr Wendland lived in Stockton, California. He was injured in an automobile accident in 1993 and went into a coma. Under state law, he could have been starved to death at any time had his wife requested the removal of his feeding tube. But Rose Wendland was busy with this and that, as one is, and assumed there was no particular urgency.

    Then one day, a year later, Robert woke up. He wasn’t exactly his old self, but he could catch and throw a ball and wheel his chair up and down the hospital corridors, and both activities gave him pleasure. Nevertheless Mrs Wendland decided that she now wished to exercise her right to have him dehydrated to death. Her justification was that, while the actual living Robert — the Robert of the mid-1990s — might enjoy a simple life of ball-catching and chair-rolling, the old Robert — the pre-1993 Robert — would have considered it a crashing bore and would have wanted no part of it.

    She nearly got her way. But someone at the hospital tipped off Mr Wendland’s mother and set off a protracted legal struggle in which — despite all the obstacles the California system could throw in her path — the elderly Florence Wendland was eventually successful in preventing her son being put down. He has since died of pneumonia, which is sad: the disabled often fall victim to some opportunist illness they’d have shrugged off in earlier times, as Christopher Reeve did. But that’s still a better fate than to be starved to death by order of the state.

    Six and a half years later, the Terri Schiavo case is almost identical to Robert Wendland’s — parents who wish to care for a disabled daughter, a spouse who wants her dead, a legal system determined to see her off. The only difference is that this time the system is likely to win — it may already have done so by the time you read this — and that Mrs Schiavo’s death is being played out round the clock coast to coast, with full supporting cast. It is easy to mock the attendant ‘circus’, the cheapest laugh of the self-identified sophisticate. A 12-year-old boy has been arrested for attempting to offer Mrs Schiavo a glass of water. Ha-ha.

    On the other hand, if one accepts the official version that the court is merely bringing to an end (after 15 years) the artificial prolongation of Mrs Schiavo’s life, since when has a glass of water been deemed medical treatment? In the public areas of Morton Plant Hospital in Clearwater, the waiting journalists grab a Coke or a coffee or even a glass of water every half hour or so without anyone considering it ‘medical treatment’. That it is, uniquely, a crime to serve Mrs Schiavo a beverage underlines the court’s intent — not to cease the artificial prolongation of life but actively to cause her death.

    When poor Terri Schiavo broke on to the front pages, several commentators said the case was another Elian Gonzalez — the Cuban boy whose mother died trying to bring him to freedom in America. That’s to say, it was one of those stories where all sorts of turbulent questions of law, morality and politics collide. Two weeks on, if it’s Clintonian analogies we’re after, it seems to me the public regard it as something closer to the whole Paula/Monica/Juanita production line culminating in impeachment: if you recall, a large number of people were outraged by the President, a smaller number of people were determined to defend him to the end, and a huge number of people just didn’t want to hear about it; and the more Republicans went on about the DNA analysis of the dress stain and Mr Clinton lying about whether his enumerated parts had been in contact with her enumerated parts and the DNA analysis of the dress stain, the more they stuck their hands over their ears and said, ‘La-la-la, can’t hear you.’

    That seems to be what’s happening here. Whether or not there’s anything in the various dubious polls claiming to show people opposed to Congressional efforts to reinsert Mrs Schiavo’s feeding tube, it seems clear that many of us would rather she’d been like Robert Wendland — a faraway local story of which they know little. A lot of Americans have paced hospital corridors while gran’ma’s medical taxi-meter goes ticking upward and, if my mailbag’s anything to go by, they’d rather this sort of stuff stayed in the shadows. Nobody likes to see how the sausage is made, or in this case the vegetable, if that indeed is what Terri Schiavo is. Many people seem to be unusually anxious to pretend that this judicial murder is merely a very belated equivalent of a discreet doctor putting a hopeless case out of her misery, or to take refuge in the idea that some magisterial disinterested ‘due process’ is being played out — or as a reader wrote to me the other day: ‘Why are you fundamentalists so clueless? It’s the law, dickbrain. Michael Schiavo isn’t acting for himself; he’s been legally recognised as the person qualified to act for Terri in expressing her wishes based on her own oral declarations.’

    Which sounds fine and dandy, until you uncover your ears and a lot of the genteel euphemisms and legalisms and medicalisms — ‘right to die’, ‘guardian ad litem’, ‘PVS’ — start to sound downright Orwellian. PVS means ‘persistent vegetative state’, and because it’s a grand official-sounding term it’s been accepted mostly without question by the mainstream media, even though the probate judge declared Mrs Schiavo in a persistent vegetative state without troubling to visit her and without requiring any of the routine tests, such as an MRI scan. Indeed, her husband hasn’t permitted her to be tested for anything since 1993. Think about that: this woman is being put to death without any serious medical evaluation more recent than 12 years ago.

    La-la-la, we don’t want to hear how the vegetable’s made....

    Fortunately, if you want to execute someone who hasn’t committed a crime, you don’t need to worry with any of this ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ stuff. If an al-Qa’eda guy got shot up resisting capture in Afghanistan and required a feeding tube and the guards at Guantanamo yanked it out, you’d never hear the end of it from the American Civil Liberties Union and Amnesty International and all the rest. Even given the litigious nature of American society, it still strikes me as remarkable that someone can be literally sued to death, and at the hands of a probate judge. Unlike other condemned prisoners, there’s no hope of a last-minute reprieve from the governor. That’s to say, he did reprieve her, and so did the legislature, and the US Congress and President — and the Florida courts have declared them all irrelevant. So, unlike Death Row, there’s no call from the governor, and no quick painless lethal injection or electrocution or swift clean broken neck from the hangman’s noose, and certainly no last meal. On Tuesday, getting a little impatient with the longest slow-motion public execution in American history, CBS News accidentally posted Mrs Schiavo’s obit on their website complete with vivid details that have yet to occur — the parents at her bedside in the final moments, etc. In this, they seem to be in tune with their viewers: sad business, personal tragedy, no easy answers, prayers are with her family, yada yada, is it over yet?

    Just to underline the Clinton comparison, the Sunday Times’s Andrew Sullivan has dusted off his impeachment act and damned those of us opposed to Mrs Schiavo’s judicial murder as dogmatic extremist fundamentalist religious-right theocrats. If he’d stop his shrill bleating for a couple of minutes, he might notice that the ‘theocrats’ who want Terri Schiavo to live include Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader and Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank, who’s not just a Democrat but a gay one.

    True, the TV networks — as they often do with what they see as socially conservative issues — prefer to train their cameras on some of Mrs Schiavo’s more obviously loopy defenders. But, for all that, it seems far weirder to me to be quite so enthusiastic about ending her life. I’ve received innumerable emails along the lines of, ‘If Terri Schiavo didn’t want this to happen to her, all she had to do under Florida law was make a “living will”’ — one of those documents that says in the event of a severe disability I do/do not want to be kept alive (delete as applicable). Well, OK, I haven’t received ‘innumerable’ emails, but I’ve received enough that I now send back a form response politely inquiring whether the correspondent has himself made a living will. I’ve yet to receive any answers. But I can’t see why, in a free society, healthy persons in their twenties should be expected to file legal documents in order to pre-empt a court order mandating their death a decade or two hence.

    Even if you believe in living wills, it’s hard to argue that Michael Schiavo’s wildly inconsistent statements of his wife’s casual remarks about living on a tube should have the force of one. I’d be irked to find I was being deported to Pyongyang on the grounds that, while watching a TV documentary late one night in 1987, I’d been heard to say, ‘Wow, you know it’d be kinda cool to go to North Korea, don’t you think?’ But the Florida legal system’s position remains — as a reader, Adrienne Follmer, paraphrased it to me the other day — ‘We don’t know for sure if this woman wanted to live so let’s starve her to death.’

    La-la-la, still can’t hear you....

    One consequence of abortion is that, in designating new life as a matter of ‘choice’, it created a culture where it’s now routine to make judgments about which lives are worth it and which aren’t. Down’s Syndrome? Abort. Cleft palate? Abort. Chinese girl? Abort. It’s foolish to think you can raise entire populations — not to mention generations of doctors — to make self-interested judgments about who lives and who doesn’t and expect them to remain confined to three trimesters. The ‘right to choose’ is now being extended beyond the womb: the step from convenience euthanasia to compulsory euthanasia is a short one. Until a year or two back, I spent a lot of my summer Saturdays manning the historical society booth at the flea markets on the town common, and I passed many a pleasant quarter-hour or so chit-chatting with elderly ladies leading some now middle-aged simpleton child around. Both parties seemed to enjoy the occasion. The child is no doubt a ‘burden’: he was born because he just was; there was no ‘choice’ about it in those days. Having done away with those kinds of ‘burdens’ at birth, we’re less inclined to tolerate them when they strike in adulthood, as they did in Terri Schiavo’s case.

    In that sense, the Schiavo debate provides a glimpse of the Western world the day after tomorrow — a world of nonagenarian baby boomers who’ve conquered most of the common-or-garden diseases and instead get stricken by freaky protracted colossally expensive chronic illnesses; a world of more and more dependants, with fewer and fewer people to depend on. In Europe, where demographic reality means that in a generation or so all the dependants will be elderly European Christians and most of the fellows they’re dependent on will be young North African or Arab Muslims, the social consensus for government health care is unlikely to survive. Terri Schiavo failed to demonstrate conclusively why she should be permitted by the state to continue living. As Western nations evolve rapidly into the oldest societies in human history, many more of us will be found similarly wanting.

    Michael Schiavo’s lawyer, George Felos, is a leading light of the so-called ‘right-to-die’ movement, and his book, Litigation as Spiritual Practice, makes interesting reading. On page 240 Mr Felos writes, ‘The Jewish people, long ago in their collective consciousness, agreed to play the role of the lamb whose slaughter was necessary to shock humanity into a new moral consciousness. Their sacrifice saved humanity at the brink of extinction and propelled us into a new age.... If our minds can conceive of an uplifting Holocaust, can it be so difficult to look another way at the slights and injuries and abuses we perceive were inflicted upon us?’

    Mr Felos feels it is now Terri Schiavo’s turn to ‘agree’ to play the role of the lamb whose slaughter is necessary to shock humanity into a new moral consciousness. As I read Felos’s words, I heard a radio bulletin announce that the Pope may now require a feeding tube. Fortunately for him, his life is ultimately in the hands of God and not a Florida probate judge.
    Which is basically the same conclusion I came to when I considered our so-called societal 'progression' from Morgenthaler, to Krevorkian to Holland today.


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  14. #14
    Mehmed II's Avatar Vicarius
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    She died, end of story... :

  15. #15

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    Originally posted by Aristophanes@Mar 31 2005, 01:07 PM
    Seeing as the point is still being missed by the resident sophisticates, I thought I'd include another opinion to 'clarify' things:
    Hahaha, you're funny, man. If anybody disagrees with you, it must certainly be because they are ignorant and can't understand your lofty intellectualizing. :rolleyes

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by morble@Mar 31 2005, 09:28 PM
    Hahaha, you're funny, man. If anybody disagrees with you, it must certainly be because they are ignorant and can't understand your lofty intellectualizing. :rolleyes
    No no, that's us, we immediatly brand someone as arrogant and so on if they don't agree with us. Aristo is here with the TRUTH, for real. *tongue*
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

  17. #17

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    A) This question is a lot larger than Terri although it has been inspired by her recent ordeal and all the news attention it has received. So far not one person has made the slightest attempt to answer my question: "Is it dangerous to vitiate humanity on grounds of disability? Who should advocate those who cannot stand up for themselves? Almost all arguments for state-sanctioned murder are premised on disability[euthanasia, abortion, Dutch 'medicine'] and convenience: what's to prevent the further widening the powers of the state, its supporters and beneficiaries, and the weakening of the rights of those who can not speak?[literally and figuratively] We have the laws that we do in order to see the weak protected from the strong: doesn't this court decision, and most abortion fly in the face of the principle?[don't tell me a 'fetus' isn't human: it is branded as 'something else' on the grounds of disability-disability to feel, to think, to survive outside its mother. ]

    No no, that's us, we immediatly brand someone as arrogant and so on if they don't agree with us. Aristo is here with the TRUTH, for real.
    B) I won't mind it a bit if you folks stay on subject and though you may disagree with my assessment, you could still adopt the facade of argument.

    There is a certain strain of obstinacy, the fruit of intelligent individualists paradoxically orthodox, which is in evidence as we discuss.


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  18. #18

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    There is a certain strain of obstinacy, the fruit of intelligent individualists paradoxically orthodox, which is in evidence as we discuss.
    It is sooo hard to disregard rational thought. *wink*

    Nor do I see any logical explaination for intelligent individualism conforming to a mainstream being paradoxical in any way.

    NM
    Former Patron of: Sbsdude, Bgreman, Windblade, Scipii, Genghis Khan, Count of Montesano, Roman American, Praetorian Sejanus

    My time here has ended. The time of the syntigmata has ended. Such is how these things are, and I accept it. In the several years I was a member of this forum, I fought for what I considered to be the most beneficial actions to enrich the forum. I regret none of my actions, and retain my personal honor and integrity.
    Fallen Triumvir

  19. #19

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    Originally posted by Aristophanes@Apr 1 2005, 11:45 AM
    A) This question is a lot larger than Terri although it has been inspired by her recent ordeal and all the news attention it has received. So far not one person has made the slightest attempt to answer my question: "Is it dangerous to vitiate humanity on grounds of disability?

    B) I won't mind it a bit if you folks stay on subject and though you may disagree with my assessment, you could still adopt the facade of argument.
    Well, the problem is, you are trying to set up a straw man, and want everyone to argue from that point of view, so that you can knock the straw man down. Yet strangely, everyone else doesn't want to play along with you.

    As I read this thread, most seem to agree with me that the Schiavo case and euthanasia are different topics. Your leading question is a canard. I might as well ask "Is it dangerous to elect right-wing crypto-fascists who will use the armed forces and citizens' lives of the United States to further their own personal whims and destabilize world peace?" Well, duh, if you accept the way I've framed the question, you must agree and declare GWB dangerous.

    In the Schiavo case, there was no evidence of higher functions. It was essentially an uninhabited body. You assume that anything human in appearance is bravely, consciously, struggling for life in any and all circumstances, no matter how oppressive. This just ain't so, and human beings should have the right to die with dignity, without being forced to live according to rules, laws, regulations or whatever, imposed from outside.

    I don't have a living will, but I certainly would not want to continue existence as Terri Schiavo had the last 15 years, even (especially) making the totally improbable assumption that she was at all conscious. I would certainly not want my body kept functioning just because you say it should be, when I had expressed my wishes against such.

    The fact is, many (most) do not accept your proposition that Schiavo was a functioning human being who was only disabled. Instead, she was in a persistent vegetative state without the capacity for autonomous thought. From that point of view, it is reasonable to ask who pays for the care of this body, and who has the responsibility and decisionmaking capacity over it. To my mind, the husband, as next of kin, trumps other family, friends, Congress, and you, as the final arbiter.

    While I totally disagree that the Schiavo case has anything to do with abortion, I do note some (non-intersecting&#33 parallels. A fetus in the first trimester does not have a human body or a human brain. It cannot live on its own, and it cannot think. It is not a human being. You want to claim a first trimester fetus is a full human that is merely "disabled", because it lacks the abilities "to feel, to think, to survive outside its mother". I note that even a rock could be construed to be a disabled human being based on this definition.

  20. #20
    Mehmed II's Avatar Vicarius
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    Well, the problem is, you are trying to set up a straw man, and want everyone to argue from that point of view, so that you can knock the straw man down. Yet strangely, everyone else doesn't want to play along with you.

    As I read this thread, most seem to agree with me that the Schiavo case and euthanasia are different topics. Your leading question is a canard. I might as well ask "Is it dangerous to elect right-wing crypto-fascists who will use the armed forces and citizens' lives of the United States to further their own personal whims and destabilize world peace?" Well, duh, if you accept the way I've framed the question, you must agree and declare GWB dangerous.

    In the Schiavo case, there was no evidence of higher functions. It was essentially an uninhabited body. You assume that anything human in appearance is bravely, consciously, struggling for life in any and all circumstances, no matter how oppressive. This just ain't so, and human beings should have the right to die with dignity, without being forced to live according to rules, laws, regulations or whatever, imposed from outside.

    I don't have a living will, but I certainly would not want to continue existence as Terri Schiavo had the last 15 years, even (especially) making the totally improbable assumption that she was at all conscious. I would certainly not want my body kept functioning just because you say it should be, when I had expressed my wishes against such.

    The fact is, many (most) do not accept your proposition that Schiavo was a functioning human being who was only disabled. Instead, she was in a persistent vegetative state without the capacity for autonomous thought. From that point of view, it is reasonable to ask who pays for the care of this body, and who has the responsibility and decisionmaking capacity over it. To my mind, the husband, as next of kin, trumps other family, friends, Congress, and you, as the final arbiter.

    While I totally disagree that the Schiavo case has anything to do with abortion, I do note some (non-intersecting&#33 parallels. A fetus in the first trimester does not have a human body or a human brain. It cannot live on its own, and it cannot think. It is not a human being. You want to claim a first trimester fetus is a full human that is merely "disabled", because it lacks the abilities "to feel, to think, to survive outside its mother". I note that even a rock could be construed to be a disabled human being based on this definition.
    That's strategic ambiguity right there.. Morble pretty much wrapped it up I guess? Aww man!

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