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Thread: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

  1. #1
    Aetius's Avatar Vae victis
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    Default A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?


    What would have happened had Germany won the war? For starters, the most philo-Semitic nation in Europe, Germany, would have remained so. Six million Jews would not have disappeared, as Hitler would have remained a failed artist and nothing more. The dynasties would have survived, which means there would have been no communism with its 20 to possibly 100 million victims. Hungary would not have been chopped up by Romania and Slovakia and Yugoslavia would not have become the unnatural federation it became. The Ottoman Empire would have lumbered along, Iraq would not have been created, nor would’ve Israel, Lebanon or Jordan. Russia would have joined the modern world–eventually. The world would have been led by England, Germany, France and the United States, and Africa would have never become the slaughterhouse it is today.

    Despite all its horrors, the Brits insist there was a moral case for fighting WWI, but they would say that, wouldn’t they? Britannia did not wish Germany to spread her wings. But that was manifest destiny, pure and simple. So Hitler came to power because of the Versailles Treaty, and I guess you know the rest. Woodrow Wilson, a well-meaning man but criminally responsible for Jimmy Carter-like naivete, has a lot to answer for. Oh yes, I almost forgot, there would never have been a man called Mussolini lording it over the most pleasant land of Europe. Finally, socialism, the great cancer that has befallen us, would have remained a dream among hirsute intellectuals on the Left Bank of Paris. The struggle between good and evil that was WWII would never have taken place.

    Even in the far Orient, things would have been for the better. Japan was the only combatant nation that achieved its aims by joining the Entente. It gave her a free hand to pursue her ambitions in Asia. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese would not have been slaughtered, and Mao would have remained a chainsmoking peasant, unknown outside his village. There never would have been a Vietnam War. Sure, Churchill said the Germans are either at your throat or at your feet, but that was just war rhetoric. The Kaiser was a civilized man, as were the Germans, and had the Allies humored him and allowed Germany to pursue her destiny, we would today be living in a far, far better place.


    Do you agree with this article?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    NOthing wrong with the fact that WW1 was won by the right side, but how it was handled afterward was poor. Manifest destinty is a justification for tyrants.

  3. #3
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Na, WWI was won by the right side; it would serve a good lesson to teach Germany iron-fist diplomacy would not work everytime.

    However, how Allies dealed Central Power after the war kindly spoiled the result.

  4. #4
    Lord Consul's Avatar Armchair intellectual
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Germany should have "won" WWI. Without the American intervention, the ongoing stalemate would have forced both sides to compromise, or so I think...
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  5. #5

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    What if Germany threated the allies as bad as they treated her? Stage set for WW2.
    Ugly as the north end of a pig going south

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    Lord Consul's Avatar Armchair intellectual
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    I doubt Germany would achieve such dominance, since the UK and France would not be "defeated" - instead, it would end in a stalemate.
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    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    I don't exactly know although at least a strong German Austrian Mittleeurope would have been a nice bulwark against communism. I personally blame that skinny Wilson for this see what you did when you didn't reelect me!
    according to exarch I am like
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    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

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  8. #8

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    I fail to see how Germany was more 'wrong' than the other side in the war.


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  9. #9
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post

    What would have happened had Germany won the war? For starters, the most philo-Semitic nation in Europe, Germany, would have remained so. Six million Jews would not have disappeared, as Hitler would have remained a failed artist and nothing more. The dynasties would have survived, which means there would have been no communism with its 20 to possibly 100 million victims. Hungary would not have been chopped up by Romania and Slovakia and Yugoslavia would not have become the unnatural federation it became. The Ottoman Empire would have lumbered along, Iraq would not have been created, nor would’ve Israel, Lebanon or Jordan. Russia would have joined the modern world–eventually. The world would have been led by England, Germany, France and the United States, and Africa would have never become the slaughterhouse it is today.

    Despite all its horrors, the Brits insist there was a moral case for fighting WWI, but they would say that, wouldn’t they? Britannia did not wish Germany to spread her wings. But that was manifest destiny, pure and simple. So Hitler came to power because of the Versailles Treaty, and I guess you know the rest. Woodrow Wilson, a well-meaning man but criminally responsible for Jimmy Carter-like naivete, has a lot to answer for. Oh yes, I almost forgot, there would never have been a man called Mussolini lording it over the most pleasant land of Europe. Finally, socialism, the great cancer that has befallen us, would have remained a dream among hirsute intellectuals on the Left Bank of Paris. The struggle between good and evil that was WWII would never have taken place.

    Even in the far Orient, things would have been for the better. Japan was the only combatant nation that achieved its aims by joining the Entente. It gave her a free hand to pursue her ambitions in Asia. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese would not have been slaughtered, and Mao would have remained a chainsmoking peasant, unknown outside his village. There never would have been a Vietnam War. Sure, Churchill said the Germans are either at your throat or at your feet, but that was just war rhetoric. The Kaiser was a civilized man, as were the Germans, and had the Allies humored him and allowed Germany to pursue her destiny, we would today be living in a far, far better place.


    Do you agree with this article?
    You only state stuff that presumably wouldn't happen, however what would have happened should Germany have won might be worse.
    You can't say one or the other would be better, because the other is pure conjecture.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maraud View Post
    You only state stuff that presumably wouldn't happen, however what would have happened should Germany have won might be worse.
    You can't say one or the other would be better, because the other is pure conjecture.
    Precisely my guess. There are many many things that have been caused by World War I but we can't just say that that's only due to the Allies being the winning faction.
    In turn, let's just guess that the Central Powers won World War I - how couldn't that have led to very bad things in turn? In any case, people living in a post-WWI Europe with the Central Powers being the victors would probably start off with the very same dialogue inversed: "Well, it would certainly be a far better world if the Allies had won World War I."
    As Maraud has said already, we can't decide which outcome is or would be the better one - simply because we can't get past pure conjecture due to lacking knowledge of "the other outcome".

  11. #11

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post

    What would have happened had Germany won the war? For starters, the most philo-Semitic nation in Europe, Germany, would have remained so. Six million Jews would not have disappeared, as Hitler would have remained a failed artist and nothing more. The dynasties would have survived, which means there would have been no communism with its 20 to possibly 100 million victims. Hungary would not have been chopped up by Romania and Slovakia and Yugoslavia would not have become the unnatural federation it became. The Ottoman Empire would have lumbered along, Iraq would not have been created, nor would’ve Israel, Lebanon or Jordan. Russia would have joined the modern world–eventually. The world would have been led by England, Germany, France and the United States, and Africa would have never become the slaughterhouse it is today.

    Despite all its horrors, the Brits insist there was a moral case for fighting WWI, but they would say that, wouldn’t they? Britannia did not wish Germany to spread her wings. But that was manifest destiny, pure and simple. So Hitler came to power because of the Versailles Treaty, and I guess you know the rest. Woodrow Wilson, a well-meaning man but criminally responsible for Jimmy Carter-like naivete, has a lot to answer for. Oh yes, I almost forgot, there would never have been a man called Mussolini lording it over the most pleasant land of Europe. Finally, socialism, the great cancer that has befallen us, would have remained a dream among hirsute intellectuals on the Left Bank of Paris. The struggle between good and evil that was WWII would never have taken place.

    Even in the far Orient, things would have been for the better. Japan was the only combatant nation that achieved its aims by joining the Entente. It gave her a free hand to pursue her ambitions in Asia. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese would not have been slaughtered, and Mao would have remained a chainsmoking peasant, unknown outside his village. There never would have been a Vietnam War. Sure, Churchill said the Germans are either at your throat or at your feet, but that was just war rhetoric. The Kaiser was a civilized man, as were the Germans, and had the Allies humored him and allowed Germany to pursue her destiny, we would today be living in a far, far better place.


    Do you agree with this article?

    The article is idiotic in that it tries makes a clear conclusion based on nothing more than prophecy and creative thinking. How can the author make the ridiculous claim we would be living in a 'far, far better place'? Is he or she possessing of a inter-dimensional transport? Would the people of Czarist Russia suddenly become happy subjects? The Austro-Hungarian Empire united and strong with a sudden reversal of the ethnic tensions tearing her apart?

    Please give me the e-mail address of the author so I can give them my critique.
    Last edited by Markas; December 18, 2008 at 06:15 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    1. Tsarist Russia's collapse was inevitabel and had been viewed as such since the 1870s (Hobsbawm, The Age of Empire)
    2. Austro-Hungary was imploding, look at where the war started. The balkans would have become ever more unstable and Austria could expect the same treatment that the near-eastern (to use the term of the time) states had delivered to the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans had been in decay for centuries, the middle east would probably be more unstable than it is today.
    3. Socialism was already a major force in Europe prior to WWI, look at the rise of the Labour party in britain at the expense of the Liberals.
    4. The British and French empires would not survive defeat, just as Germany and the Ottomans lost all of their empires. Even if the British Empire was not carved up at the peace table, the Indian independence movement would gain massive ground in the wake of Britain's defeat, probably ending the British Empire. The dominions would have looked elsewhere for a powerful protector.

  13. #13
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    i think the moral outcome of WW1 really wouldnt have been good either way. kind of a silly argument although it is interesting to address the aftermath of the other side winning. i started a thread a little while ago about WW1 never happening, probably would have had similar consequences

  14. #14

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    It probably wouldn't be a better world if Germany won WWI. It would certainly be different, but better?
    The real problem was how the situation was handled after the war, particulalrly the neglect of Britain and France's armed forces and the reluctance of their respective leaders to stand up to Hitler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plautus View Post
    We did ate child during ww1. Really. Did you knew that? And Adolf Hitler still live and has his hq somewhere in south america

  15. #15

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    But what if Germany had won in 1918 ?
    I don´t think that Germany would have threaten the allies as hard as they did to them, but even with moderate peace terms - very likely France would have started a second world war just for revenge.

    After four years of fight - all countries suffered too huge losses (human and economical)
    So there would be growing independance movements in their colonies, the US would still be the most important country , because it´s the only one which isn´t completely ruined.
    And Russian Empire has still turned to the Soviet Union.
    =======================================

    With a short war that had ended in winter 1914 the european powers would remain the leaders of the world and had maybe created a better world:

    With only few casualties and less economical decline there wouldn´t be the communist regime in Russia.

    The colonial powers can concentrate on their colonies to build them up - economy, infrastructure, ...
    Slowly, but with the years passing by even the natives will become more and more rights.

    But there would still be the conflicts between the monarchists and the socialists - and it´s very unclear how this would have ended ...
    Last edited by Xerrop; December 18, 2008 at 02:52 PM.

  16. #16
    nce_wht_guy's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    The article is idiotic
    I'll tell ya whats idiotic, the Kaiser! Somebody should put him on a roll.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerrop View Post
    With only few casualties and less economical decline there wouldn´t be the communist regime in Russia.
    A Russian Revolution was guaranteed to happen due to internal instability, the Tsar had nearly been overthrown in the aftermath of the Russo-Japanese war
    The colonial powers can concentrate on their colonies to build them up - economy, infrastructure, ...
    Slowly, but with the years passing by even the natives will become more and more rights.
    No way. The great power used their colonies as feeders of the raw materials they did not produce. The materials were sent to the industrialised homeland and the manufactured goods were sold back to the colonies. Industrialising the colonies was not just undesirable from economic terms but potentially disastrous as the colony would no longer need it's masters.

  18. #18

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maraud View Post
    You only state stuff that presumably wouldn't happen, however what would have happened should Germany have won might be worse.
    You can't say one or the other would be better, because the other is pure conjecture.
    Exactly.

    And as previously stated, its the foolishness that occured after WWI that caused all the events that followed, as previously stated. Whats to say that if Germany hadn't won they wouldn't of imposed a simillar Versailles treaty upon the loosers?

  19. #19

    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    A Russian Revolution was guaranteed to happen due to internal instability, the Tsar had nearly been overthrown in the aftermath of the Russo-Japanese war
    You are right with that - but maybe the other european powers would have sent bigger expeditionary forces and so the "Whites" could have restored their power.
    But nobody can say this for sure.

  20. #20
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: A better world if Germany and Central Powers won WWI?

    Quote Originally Posted by nce_wht_guy View Post
    I'll tell ya whats idiotic, the Kaiser! Somebody should put him on a roll.
    lol i forget where i heard that before, i think it was family guy but a "lol" for this post

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