XAI 3.4 For KGCM coming soon !

[Hunter_PT]

Hi Dave , one question are the Mongols playable ?I went to desc_strat file and put playable but the icon dont apears on the menu, to chose this faction thanks.

[xeryx]

@ hunter; That question actually has been answered, in Dave's forums. It would probably be better to find the answer there, as it might be faster.

You guys are very smart fellows thanks for all the hard work and ideas.... Ive just spent 40 minutes reading these campaign notes you've made instead of testing the new ai- Thats how much I love this time period and the strategies involved,.
I shall now go and give this beta a run... only on H/H though.. vh/vh is just crazy..
trading in my exciting Milan campaign for a new one-

Welcome Tharn,
Yes, the levels for the campaign do work, we have made many things variable for the levels. So find one that suits you. VH does get pretty crazy and aggressive. Not much room to breath that's for sure.

I tried a medium campaign to see how things were with it, and it has many positives as well, it is more laid back..which does lead to larger garrisons and armies. There is much more diplomatic interaction (intended this way) Diplomacy is a bit easier as well. So play it on whichever level you like best..I definitely would like to hear feedback on the first 50 turns.

BTW we should be able to have a Beta 3 ready for this weekend. Once Beta 3 happens, which basically aligns everything properly. Then we can take out time, on beta 3. I may make some improvements to the CAI as well during this time.

I am going over the CAI today, As it is too aggressive. I know! just remember, smarter is better.

[RantingHeretic]

Wow, so I finally get on a computer and submit my final thoughts for beta 2, and for some reason this ancient, archaic POS won't let me format anything resembling something readable, i.e. no breaks between different paragraphs or lines. I took it off and spared you guys the sight and trouble, it was ugly.

[Dave Scarface]

Hi xeryx!

I wanted to see if I could improve the diplomacy at the start by changing the starting faction standings. However even with my changes there are still many wars breaking out. Poland is one example, even though they start at war with Russia, they are soon at war with HRE and TO, even when they have no allies. It seems impossible to delay France and Scotland from attacking England. And also HRE are still at war on many fronts. Anyway here are my revised starting positions if you want to use them xeryx. I think improvements are still needed to the CAI instead. As I said earlier, ideally to start off with, a faction should not throw itself against more than 1 enemy until it has first built itself up a bit and made alliances. Also any faction that finds itself under attack on more than two fronts should sue for peace immediately. I would not expect to see any 1 faction continue to fight 3 or more enemies on its own. I hope that my feedback is of help to you.

Dave

[xeryx]

Hi xeryx!

I wanted to see if I could improve the diplomacy at the start by changing the starting faction standings. However even with my changes there are still many wars breaking out. Poland is one example, even though they start at war with Russia, they are soon at war with HRE and TO, even when they have no allies. It seems impossible to delay France and Scotland from attacking England. And also HRE are still at war on many fronts. Anyway here are my revised starting positions if you want to use them xeryx. I think improvements are still needed to the CAI instead. As I said earlier, ideally to start off with, a faction should not throw itself against more than 1 enemy until it has first built itself up a bit and made alliances. Also any faction that finds itself under attack on more than two fronts should sue for peace immediately. I would not expect to see any 1 faction continue to fight 3 or more enemies on its own. I hope that my feedback is of help to you.
But there will be a difference in diplomacy, from beta 2 to beta three..and it should be more balanced.

Dave

No problem Dave, I will use your settings. I have since adjusted the levels in the CAI, that affect diplomacy. The AI will seek peace when needed. I have been watching England, and they are doing ok. considering they are at war with 3 factions. The number of provinces, and the size of those provinces has a huge role there.

The Free Strength Balance is used in most of the military commands, it accounts for what you have available, and also the ally and enemies balances as well. It is the control, also you will see in many of the commands the there is a limit of no more than 3 enemies, but only when still Superior in strength. The only thing that really needs adjusted are the invasion thresholds, and diplomatic levels, and that is done. I am going to take a look at the final invasion process, and see if I can tighten it up some. I may change one of the invade immediate, to an invade start. It should be cake!

More than 3 enemies: I also agree Dave the the Ai should not pursue any more than 2 opponents, unless it has the resources to do so. Think Free Strength Balance, not more than 3 enemies. This allows large powerful countries to dominate, and smaller countries to build up and find allies. This is why I switched to the FSB instead of using the number of enemies, because those rules cause issues.

Matrix re-sequencing virus initiating 3.......2.......1

If the level you are playing seems too difficult or just not the speed at which you like to play the campaign.

You can lower the difficulty! (There are NOW, more difficulty levels then VH)

It is OK........The Matrix has been reprogrammed for difficulty, you will not fall! But you must..

Follow the white rabbit.....

And seriously, they do play different! You will find they are not "EASY" just progressively, "friendlier" a bit less aggressive. Trust me I know, it has been 2 years of playing on VH (sure felt "Easy" too me). We automatically hit it. Think of the levels like this, not in terms of Easy to VH but (normal to extreme)


Easy = should still give a challenging game, but there will be a "FRIENDLIER" environment, with plenty of diplomacy.

Medium = Still alot of diplomacy, a tad harder for Human Diplomacy. Ai is bit more aggressive.

Hard = Less Diplomacy, much less forgiveness in the world..Think before you act. AI is much more aggressive, because there are fewer ways to get forgiven.

VH = The most aggressive, which does lead to smaller stacks, but usually multiples or many turns of attack, and it is easy to piss off the neighbors. You might want to ally with the Pope on this level. BTW, there will be lots of war, excommunications.etc..

[xeryx]

Initial testing went fine, You MUST RESTART your campaign.

If you want easier diplomacy and such pick medium and easy..but they aren't that easy.

If you want lots of unforgiveness, and war, pick Hard and VH, there will be little reconciliation and peace fires, as compared to the medium and easy.

See the first post, I did not do a readme, I will do that tomorrow..Just go play and enjoy.

THE DL section is currently down, Click my signature logo and it is now available at Filefront. It is balanced, and you can feel comfortable with long campaigns now.

[Hunter_PT]

Hi David and Xeryx ,i made a good test to KGCM ,vh/vh with Denmark and with toggle fow on .I didnt interfere in game ,i made 50 turns with out the the script on, to see how well the ai was doing .I saw some problems that i think its easy to fix by you guys :1 crusades and jihads dont happend, 2 the factions most of the time when are bisieging a settlement in the next turn are bisieging again with out conquer for several turns , specially milain against HR, 3 The bridge of Ireland to scotland needs fix becouse the Irish and the English never went trough the bridge,both factions are at war and have multiple stackes and they are stuck in the islands becouse dont have boats and are bankrupt,4 the ai dont make siege wepons .the good things about ai now they protect very well the key citys ,good disenbarks ,move capytal city ,the ai navies are agressive now ,good mix of armies but missing siege wepons,Cai is agressive .Ohhhh I almost fergot the ai is sieging citys many times with the power of for ex: 3 to 5 or 3 to 4 wich is suacide.Here is a screen,most of the faction dont have more then 3 enemys only HR and France have 4.Feel free to ask any thing i will be glad to help if i can. See you guys

[xeryx]

For you guys that have Downloaded Beta 3,

There is a problem with the Descr_strat! Please use this one! I will go through them tomorrow.

Below is the File you need to use for XAI to work.(remove the (xeryx) when you place the file in the world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign folder)

I have corrected the Download, for now.

[xeryx]

Hi David and Xeryx ,i made a good test to KGCM ,vh/vh with Denmark and with toggle fow on .I didnt interfere in game ,i made 50 turns with out the the script on, to see how well the ai was doing .I saw some problems that i think its easy to fix by you guys :1 crusades and jihads dont happend, 2 the factions most of the time when are bisieging a settlement in the next turn are bisieging again with out conquer for several turns , specially milain against HR, 3 The bridge of Ireland to scotland needs fix becouse the Irish and the English never went trough the bridge,both factions are at war and have multiple stackes and they are stuck in the islands becouse dont have boats and are bankrupt,4 the ai dont make siege wepons .the good things about ai now they protect very well the key citys ,good disenbarks ,move capytal city ,the ai navies are agressive now ,good mix of armies but missing siege wepons,Cai is agressive .Ohhhh I almost fergot the ai is sieging citys many times with the power of for ex: 3 to 5 or 3 to 4 wich is suacide.Here is a screen,most of the faction dont have more then 3 enemys only HR and France have 4.Feel free to ask any thing i will be glad to help if i can. See you guys

OK Thank you Hunter PT, Now I want you to load beta 3, and test on Medium level Campaign.. Then, I want your observations.

I have noticed no siege weapons in the past, as well. I would assume Dave did this to help the AI not hinder it. But now maybe it is time to play with that value again Dave?

[pwf224]

I have withheld posting my opinions on the XCAI for KGCM until I did some significant testing of my own to formulate an educated and well formulated opinion about it. There are MANY positives that I enjoy. First, diplomacy seems to "work", and naval invasions are looking promising. I also know that you are working hard on getting blockades to be effective and coordinated, which I am excited for.

However, the puropse of a beta version is not to harp on the positives, but to point out the negatives and provide constructive feedback. I know this is what every mod creator wants, and I know that by not holding back my feedback will help you create the best CAI possible, as only XAI can provide.

My main concern with the new XCAI is that the AI is overly agressive on some difficulties that it is actually hurting itself. I have noticed, and it has been noted elsewhere in this thread, that the CAI makes some wonderful decisions in defense and offense. I believe there was an example relating to Hungary, the HRE, and Venice and the smart defense those factions put up in response to war. That really excites me. However, I believe that at times there are too many factions fighting too many wars to the point where even a human player would have trouble fighting. I have noticed many multi-front wars or wars against all neighboring factions which ends up hurting the AI factions as their armies are spread thin. I believe that constant warfare also severly hinders the AI growth since they will most likely put all resources to troop production and less to economic growth or general improvement of infasructure.

Ideally, I would like to see a CAI that can recognize that it is fighting too many wars and perhaps sue for peace, fighting only 1 war, maybe 2 if the factions are allied (ex: Moors v Portugal and Spain), but no more than that. This is not only historically accurate, as no nation would fight 3+ wars at the same time against all its neighbors, but it would help the AI focus its military strength on one front (bigger stacks, wars that make progress) and give it opportunity to build and improve, like the player would be doing. The end result is an AI that not only is building its cities up but is also throwing large stacks at its enemies in wars in which progress comes down to the victories on the battlefield.

While you have certainly fixed the issue of a passive AI, I believe that there is still some work to be done in the area of diplomacy. The AI should recognize that they are fighting too many wars so that they can concentrate on one enemy at a time, while building up. This would overall provide the human player with a real challenge. I believe that the difference in difficulty should really affect the way the AI treats the human player. If the AI becomes more agressive in general, than too many wars break out which actually weakens them and in some strange twist of fate, the game becomes somewhat easier for the human player because of the mass chaos.

If I have lost you in my ramblings (it is known to happen from time to time ), please pm me and I will try to explain it in a more concise manner. I have seen great things from XAI in the past, and there is alot of promise in the new CAI. If that one thing can be fixed (AI fighting too many wars at once), I believe that you will have the undisputed best CAI ever to be made for a total war game. I know that the XAI team can pull this off and I look forward to seeing the end product of a wonderful project.


pwf224

[Dave Scarface]

I have noticed no siege weapons in the past, as well. I would assume Dave did this to help the AI not hinder it. But now maybe it is time to play with that value again Dave?

I'll make sure I take another look at this before the release of KGCM 3.8.

Dave

[xeryx]

IMPORTANT: Has anyone had any sieges? Have there been any issues with fights on walls or units not defending the Cities/or Castles? On either defense or offense? I need to know this ASAP! Can someone please post some screenshots? Of a Siege Battle..

Yes, PWF224 and Dave, I will take a look at those rules (fighting more than 2 enemies), that are in there. I may need to increase the IP penalty for them. I will also look at more of a diplomatic solution! Thanks for the good words.

EDIT: I ask you guys to ponder this, and you need to think very carefully. If you just limit the number of enemies to 2 for any nations, then you limit the AI in a 2 dimensional way. For instance, when many large nations have invaded large areas and are beyond their means, It is the nature of the beast. Usually they cannot sustain a large war for long periods of time. We could use the world wars as an example. This is also when many smaller allies can pick them apart.With that being said, what you are asking is in the AI, and it is accounted for. I have revisited the existing rules, and modified them to help. But as I sit here and look at this AI and see all that it can do now, I see so much more potential, to making much better decisions. However, we do not have time for that right now. That will have to wait for that in the next AI.

[pwf224]

Yes, PWF224, I will take a look at those rules (fighting more than 2 enemies), that are in there. I may need to increase the IP penalty for them!

That sounds great, I know you guys can fix that problem, which is really the only problem with the XAI that I have noticed. You have certainly made the AI more aggressive, which is what everyone wanted initially, but I think that in fighting more than 2 factions, the AI is ruining itself. I will wait to test the new beta after these changes have been added in order to properly gauge how it affects the new campaigns. I have high hopes for this once that hurdle is overcome.

[xeryx]

On VH I just did a siege as the Byzantines, Vs. The Turks. The Turks defending a Huge City (Battle Generator)

I had some good infantry spears archers and flame throwers, it was basically a one on one match!

The Turks: Breakdown good mix of infantry..spears and heavy infantry with four Turkish archers, and 2 naftaun, All units deployed on the walls as where suppose too and fought on the walls the entire battle. I never got farther than the walls.

In fact the AI did so well, I was unable to breach the gate, so I was using the very tall siege towers, I was unable to get control of the gate towers as the AI poured reinforcements on the walls. Which in the end made my entire first wave take massive losses and retreat. The fight NEVER came close to making it to the streets.

I lost over 66% of my army and did not do but maybe 15% damage to them. In the end I retreated off the battlefield, and wearing a crown of shame. I have never been beaten this bad in a siege, ever. Next time I bring artillery for sure.

I will do a batch convert for everyone to see my humiliation..

[xeryx]

Well, I have worked on this way more than I should have, again. I have gone through the CAI one last time for this beta 4. Unless there are any outstanding errors, the CAI and BAI will stand as is. Only bug fixes, and adjustments if needed.

Just over the past 2 weeks I have spent about 80 hrs on this. I would say 20hrs conversion w/testing. The rest has been working on BAI and CAI. I don't have anymore time, to spend on this version. I already spent about half my vacation. So, it is smarter than before, and should give you adequate challenges.

But do not worry, there will be more versions

I know this was a quick turnaround on time, but since there is only a few giving feedback. I figured I would make this faster. I have posted Beta 4.
YOU MUST RESTART THE CAMPAIGN!

See the first post or Click on my Signature logo.

[Rhythalion]

Hey there, After chatting quickly in the Retrofit thread, i'm downloading KGCM and will try out your Beta 4

However.... i'm about to go away for a weeks holiday so won't get to give it a real good bash for a week typical huh! lolz. I see some good feedback already in this thread, so hopefully when i'm back I can contribute too.

By the looks of things this version will be "it" for a while anyway, so there is no rush. I've done a fair bit of testing for Lord of the Rings : Total War so hopefully can give you some useful feedback when I get to it.

[xeryx]

That would be outstanding!! Thanks Rhythalion.

What do we have left, please tell us.
We have yet to finish the Cavalry charge penetration increase. I have to incorporate, Dave Scarface's Settings into the desc_strat.txt
Fix any bugs, and any balancing that might remain.

All other changes from the Beta 4 feedback, will go into the last and final beta 5.

It is imperative that you guys really test it upside down and forwards. Also please be realistic with what we have achieved, and be realistic with things you may want changed. CAI changes take a long time to implement, and test. I welcome any ideas, you may have, but they may take awhile to get into future versions.

I am taking one day of rest, if you have any questions post them here. Thank you for all the great feedback..it wasn't bad at all!! There are always chinks in any armor. We just want to minimize them.

I need new tests run on sieges, there has been a report of men not fighting on the walls, and protecting the perimeter. The seem to just flee to the square. I have never experienced this, myself. Also the 3.2 XBAI thread has not shown this bug. If you guys could test offensive sieges today. If this bug exists, it must be squished. And if you run across it, please make sure you save it, so I can recreate it!! We will then reprogram it to behave. You can use Beta 2 to beta 4, for this test.

I still need reports though, about the sieges, screen shots are always good too. Anything you find odd..Please take a screen shot, and save the savegame. But you must say what version of the Beta you are playing. I look forward to your reports.

[pwf224]

I didn't have time to test siege battles last night, but I will certainly try to test a variety of sieges to try and find any/all bugs.

[THARN]

sheesh- Ive been away for a couple of days playing in my band and I come back to 2 more updates to the beta..lol
didnt even have a chance to give feedback on v 2.o

well ill give a brief one:
Milan H/H I spent the first 25 turns building and getting trade agreements with most everyone.
The Pope did ask for a couple of early crusades which kept others off of my back- I went to war with The moors over Cagliari- as I expected they wanted it really bad- the seige they put on me was a good battle/close but i kept the town.. now heres where something different happened. since I figured i couldnt keet the town- I do as I always have try and give it to someone who I want to get into a war with my current enemy and to help my relations with them..
this was the first time I couldnt give that damn town away.. other factions said no-!! I couldnt believe it. Including Sicily!!
I finally gave it to the Norweigens who accepted... Its funny too because the Moors still havent attacked cagliari for another 20 turns..i thought they would have.

I then focussed my attention to the north and HRE becasue they would not accept a ceasefire.
I luckily took Bern and the town north. the battles were prett good actually- the men stayed on the castle walls until i knocked then down with catapults. when I charged through- the hre army left the walls and headed for the square. they almost tricked me into losing my general because 2 of thier spearmem swept around and almost caught me off guard- i ran my general away from them and pelted them with arrows until they turned back- by then it was too late i took the square.
the town north- was different -I caught it with a low number of units but he did manage to get another army nearby- so when i attacked it was a matter of getting in and to the square before his other army could make it with the full force into the town..
a few turns after this I was attacked by France at Bern- France is a Super power by turn 50.
HRE has been crushed quite a bit since it was at war with no less than 5 factions (some part due to excommunication) so I offered a cease fire and trade rights and they accepted.
Venice is always lurking and It seems the the AI are actually playing a bit more human like..
I am seeing more merchants- it could be the area im in im not sure.
50 turns isnt enough to find many faults with it- i guess ill jump to 4.0 and restart.

I do have to tell you though that I had about 100-150 points for defense to all of the gates for towns and castles/
they've always seemed a bit too frail... really. huge iron gates knocked in that quick doesnt seem right.

[brousell]

Hi

I have found that on seiges if you attack the enemy outside of a castle when they are assulting the walls i.e with ladders and towers, then they seem to get stuck. And once the towers and ladders are in place and the fighing at the foot of the wall has finished the AI doe'snt seem to distribute the troops according, like deploying it's forces half and half to storm the walls again, it's seem to prefer to group the men up at the bottom of one whilst not using the other to it full potential.

I have only noticed this if I venture outside during a siege.

sorry for such breif feedback, I have'nt had much time.