Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Clarus/Caelinus

[Sir James the Good]

Let it be known that I oppose this notion of invading Africa.

[Lord Kal]

I opposed it in a speech yesterday and I have yet to hear a convincing argument against the reasons I cited.

[Normanknight47]

Of course my plan is not an invasion. We go in take out there ports and any thing Militarily useful to them and get the hell out. A true invasion is impossible with our current situation. This by the way will cripple there Navy and would make the western Mediterranean our playground then we can proceed with the long overdue pacification of the North without fear of Carthaginian counter attacks. And avenge our fallen brothers killed by those Gallic barbarians

[Selifator]

And how would you do that? The walls of Carthage are widely known to be great and strong, stronger than the walls surrounding Rome. We would need to capture Carthage, which will be difficult, and then hold it long enough to destroy all important buildings. Also, this will certainly cripple the city for our uses when we would invade it later on. For if you think that there are any serious military operations outside of Carthage itself, you are being quite ignorant. Those cities will only serve a purpose if we take and hold them, and raiding Carthage is too much for a small raiding force.

[Snowball]

There will be no "raiding" in Africa,we are not pirates. After we have taken the punic isles this republic needs rest before we continue!

We must disband our men, we must develop our cities! then we may build up for further expansion, IF there is reason too.

Do not mistake my mindset, i am not against war, but i am against war when it is not advisable to do so. And we must honor our treaties and promises, there is no honor in acting like the Carthaginians, or the Gauls for that matter, who hold no treaty, respect no promise.

To sum up, it is my opinion, and it was the opinion of this senate at the time we invaded Sicily, that after Sicily was taken, and the Punic islands were taken, with the exception of Syracuse, that we would consolidate our new gains, develop and disband the men, who have served and done their duty to the Republic.

I am still of this opinion. any talk of operations in Africa is premature at best, and idiotic at worst.

[Normanknight47]

Niger turns to Cealinus

First all who said we should hit Carthage itself? I meant her other Ports and strong holds. Dont put words in my mouth Caelinus I do that just well without your help

And then to Clarus

Secondly how dare you compere a Roman to a Barbarian Clarus If I were not above such petty name calling I would report you to the courts for conduct unbecoming of your rank . Further more this is totally justified they employ pirates against us why should we not do the same?


Make no mistake my fellow Romans we have just wounded the beast as I said such an Operation would cripple it for years by the time they recover we can then take there newly rebuilt lands. As you can see the gains are much more then the loses

[Snowball]

Senator! you should watch your words, you must not have heard me properly, i did not compare us to them, i merely mentioned that we should not make it so that we COULD be compared to them.

It seems many of you Optimates wish to wage undiscriminated war against anyone, no matter our relations with them! It is as if treaties do not matter, and while i hope i am very mistaken in this view, if it IS true...Then comparing you to barbarians is fitting.

This discussion is over, as i said before, planning ANYTHING for Africa is totally out of the question right now.

Marcus sits down.

[Normanknight47]

OCC: may internet may fail any time I wont able to post till tommorw btw

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Marcus Appuleius Saturninus stands, exasperated. He waits standing until there is quiet enough to hear him speak.

Senators! I have had enough. Already, weeks have gone by (RP of course) and yet, we have sat here, talking, shouting, raving about everything that comes to our minds. There has been talk of Gallic invasions, attacks on Epirots, and invading Africa. What is this madness?! I ask you, senators, who with a right man makes a plan that will be enacted in 5 years time like proposed by Numerius Furius? Who knows what will happen in five years? How can you plan so far ahead without have clue of what will happen in between?! The Curia has been a mess lately. We have gone from topic to topic, and only once sitting long enough on one to make a concrete decision. This is soon becoming a waste of a term! I will not tolerate this!

Marcus breathes heavily, takes a deep breath and shouts:

From now on, I shall be heavily enforcing the power of the Nota Censura. At the moment the topic shall be focussed purely on how the invasion of the Punic Isles shall be conducted and NOTHING ELSE!! If anyone strays of topic, he will be given a warning. Straying again, will result in the Nota Censura. Mark my words, senators, I will not accept the transformation of this term in a waste of time!!

There is silence as Marcus finally sits down, sweating from exertion.

[Philos Sophos]

Gaius enters the senate,sits down and whispers to a senator.

"Could you tell me what are you talking about here.It's my first day in the senate..."

[Normanknight47]

Again 1st off not against war? hahahaha you could have fooled me you immediately attacked my proposal just because other nations might think us Barbarians! well wake up counsel "Quisque est Barbarus Alio"

[Xavier Dragnesi]

OOC: This is me being the random senator Octavius just talked to

Well, discussion has been ranging all over the place, from Gaul, to Greece to Africa, and the Censor just threw a tantrum about how off topic it is, and is now issuing punishments for digressing.

[Selifator]

Oppius walks to the new senator, hoping that he might speak to him before raving Optimates start again.
"Good-day brother, it is good to see a new face here. I am Oppius Aulus Caelinus, one of the Consuls, right now we are trying to set the senate onto a subject to discuss. As the Censor has told you, the Senate has been without purpose for the past weeks, in no small part due to the Optimates."

[Normanknight47]

OCC:btw i was writing be4 you posted that Xavier

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Again 1st off not against war? hahahaha you could have fooled me you immediately attacked my proposal just because other nations might think us Barbarians! well wake up counsel "Quisque est Barbarus Alio"

I am watching you Numerius Furius. I will not tolerate direct insult to the Consul. I'm quite sure the main reason for him attacking your proposal is that it is way too far fetched. I ask you, how do you plan 5 years into the future? If you can give me a good answer to how you can guarantee the working of a plan that will happen in 5 years, then I will support your motion and pull others with me.

[Normanknight47]

OCC: lol when did I say my char was raving is that all of been thinking


well this IS a FORUM is it not? I simply presented a plan. Well any who let us get back to business at hand what are plans for the punic Ilses dose the Counsul wish to add any to the current?

[chaplain118]

Turnus leans over to Gaius

The Populares control the Senate this term, they speak of invading the Punic Isles, Corsica and Sardinia only. However, many of us, the Optimates, believe the Punic Isles should not be the end of our conquest. That's basically the gist.

He turns to the senate floor

Senators, let's consider, shall we, of our current predicament.

You would oppose the raising of a new legion, but pray tell. How can we take TWO islands with ONE legion?

You would oppose the building of a fleet for other oversea invasions, but how else would we ferry our troops to the Punic Isles.

You claim the sea festers with the ships of Carthage, yet our merchants, farmers, and various sources cannot see those ships. The sea lanes look clear. Yet you claim Punic ships prowl there.

How strange.

[Snowball]

Dear Rutulus, we conquered Sicily with one legion, the only difference now is that it will require more time. And we are not talking about making a war fleet to ferry then to the Islands, just boats to carry them over.

Going to Africa would require war ships as well as transport ships.

[Normanknight47]

OCC: I was making the other post b4 I saw Xavers challange please disregard it sorry

Niger smiles at this challenge

Simple after the Operation againts the punic Ielands we will have a surplus of funds wich will be enof to make the force. It should number 3-4 Hestiai 2-3 Pricepes and 1-2 Triari wich should be traind in rome or a city more to the North for quick relocation should any unforseen consiqunces arise like for exemple a Gallic raid

Second if we are able to we should make one or 2 Trireme Fleet in Rome to transport the troops to Sicily.


Third we send in our agents and scout any possible targets. In the event that there are no places suitable for the raid we can re route them north to Pacify the region instead. At the time most agreeable with the Consul of that term.

There is more i can add but those are the major concerns I believe

[Normanknight47]

Oh and I forgot we can use the ships used for the Islands Operations. There even cheaper