Land-bridge between italy and greece?

[AqD]

Hey ExRM devs! Have you guys considered to add a landbridge between italy and greece? I saw it in Chivalry mod and it may be suitable for RTR too, considering that Romans had much more interests in greece than poor gallic regions.

[Jamey]

I certainly haven't thought about it before now.

I think it would definitely help Epirus, which occasionally tries to send forces from Apollonia to Italy by land (yes, through other factions' territory). I'm not opposed to the idea. It's certainly worth exploring to see how it affects the AI's behavior. :hmmm:

[Quinn Inuit]

Interesting idea. It would help the Epirus AI a lot, but it might cause some bizarre moments if Macedonia invades. But you're right that it would cause them to expand more historically.

Alternatively, we can lead them down the Dalmatian Coast by putting two provinces (Liburnia and Dalmatia) there instead of just the one we have currently.

[Jamey]

Interesting idea. It would help the Epirus AI a lot, but it might cause some bizarre moments if Macedonia invades. But you're right that it would cause them to expand more historically.

Alternatively, we can lead them down the Dalmatian Coast by putting two provinces (Liburnia and Dalmatia) there instead of just the one we have currently.

I like Dalmatia the way it is (it's one of the few places you can control most of a coastline through one province). I like the landbridge better than the idea of adding more provinces in Illyria, a region which we're deemphasizing anyway.

Another interesting side effect of making Illyria rebel is that it will reduce Roman trade early in the game (no trade with Delmatia in the Adriatic until someone conquers it). I hadn't thought about that until now.

[Quinn Inuit]

Oh, good point. I hadn't thought of that, either.

I still like the idea of leading the AI down the coast, but you're right that it doesn't make much sense to add a region to an area we're deemphasizing. Ok, let's go with the landbridge.

[HouseOfHam]

So, where would this landbridge be, between Tarentum and Appolonia?

[Jamey]

So, where would this landbridge be, between Tarentum and Appolonia?

I was thinking between Ariminum and Apollonia. We need a really long landbridge.

I presumed that Tarentum/Apollonia was the desired location. I'm not 100% sold on the idea, but I'm definitely interested in seeing how it changes the AI's behavior. My biggest concern would be that Rome would be funnelled into Greece/Macedon instead of fighting with Carthage. I do expect it to help Epirus, which currently tends to do odd things because of its divided territory. The AI is just too dumb to keep a bireme in port for shuttling units between the two sides of the Adriatic.

[Delvecchio1975]

I think it could be great: Rome invading Greece before conquering all of Western and Northern Europe. I just hate the recurring sight of the red boot combined with Charlemagne's empire. It would also bog down Macedonia or Greece - whoever gets the upper hand, giving Thrace, the Sarmatians and the Germans a better shot at developping before getting steamrolled from the south ...

[Arnold Legion]

Anything that will slow the development of factions into super powers 'early' in the game will be a massive help. I'm at 223bce and Macedon is one town off the top of the map, the Ptolemies are riding camels on the steppes! I admit though I'm using the previous version of ExRM, but if you lot have not hammered the usual suspects I presume this scenario still holds true?
So, yes go ahead and try out the land bridge.
Don't know enough tech' to suggest its placement, though Tarentum/Apollonia sounds the best bet.

[Quinn Inuit]

Anything that will slow the development of factions into super powers 'early' in the game will be a massive help. I'm at 223bce and Macedon is one town off the top of the map, the Ptolemies are riding camels on the steppes! I admit though I'm using the previous version of ExRM, but if you lot have not hammered the usual suspects I presume this scenario still holds true?
So, yes go ahead and try out the land bridge.
Don't know enough tech' to suggest its placement, though Tarentum/Apollonia sounds the best bet.

It's gotten better in the most recent version, but I don't think we're going to have a real fix for that until the next version.

For the record, I think we still have this situation in better shape than it was in RTR6G or PE, but I know there's room for improvement.

I think it could be great: Rome invading Greece before conquering all of Western and Northern Europe. I just hate the recurring sight of the red boot combined with Charlemagne's empire. It would also bog down Macedonia or Greece - whoever gets the upper hand, giving Thrace, the Sarmatians and the Germans a better shot at developping before getting steamrolled from the south ...

Heh, well put. And you have a good point about the Central European factions needing the development time.

I was thinking between Ariminum and Apollonia. We need a really long landbridge.

I presumed that Tarentum/Apollonia was the desired location. I'm not 100% sold on the idea, but I'm definitely interested in seeing how it changes the AI's behavior. My biggest concern would be that Rome would be funnelled into Greece/Macedon instead of fighting with Carthage. I do expect it to help Epirus, which currently tends to do odd things because of its divided territory. The AI is just too dumb to keep a bireme in port for shuttling units between the two sides of the Adriatic.

I'm going to do that just to surprise everyone. You're going to hit end turn and find yourself attacked by the Iberians on turn four...in Paestum.

That's why I made Epirus prefer_naval--I was hoping they would be able to handle the geographically disperse territories. Oh, well.

[florin80]

The ai reactions aside, aren`t you afraid that with this landbridge in place you`d be getting more of a Risk game kinda feel?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...k_game_map.png

[Quinn Inuit]

That's always a concern with landbridges. I think the benefits of this one outweigh the drawbacks, though. The AI just seems to need its hand held here.

[Jamey]

The ai reactions aside, aren`t you afraid that with this landbridge in place you`d be getting more of a Risk game kinda feel?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...k_game_map.png

That's always a concern with landbridges. I think the benefits of this one outweigh the drawbacks, though. The AI just seems to need its hand held here.

I think Quinn is right. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need any landbridges because the AI would be able to use ships competently. To put it politely, CA did not create an ideal AI.

As I said, I'm not 100% sold on this idea because I'm concerned about Rome expanding into Greece and Macedon instead of Sicily. I'll wait and see how the AI behaves before passing judgment. I'm willing to live with landbridges to fix the AI. Any human player who prefers to not use them can instead build ships. We could also probably provide map files without the landbridges in place if there's a lot of desire for that.

[Delvecchio1975]

I'm a complete mod illiterate, and I know how to remove a landbridge. If it gives a silly effect, it's easy to take out ...

[Arnold Legion]

Well I is more illiterate than wot you am. So do tell, dear boy!

[Delvecchio1975]

well, in my personified hacker lingo i'd say: "there's a picture of a map somewhere in your RTW folder. Open it in Photoshop or Coreldraw or something. Not Paint. Paint no good. it looks very colourful coz it's got all the provinces in a different colour. and the sea is so blue it hurts your eyes. You'll see on this map that where there's a landbridge the province pixels touch each other (in a non sexual way). copy a sea pixel and make sure those province pixels stop touching each other (it's disgusting). save the map. run the map reset .bat thing. And that's all there is to it."

If you don't understand what i just said, i can TRY to clarify it. But that's how it works in my head.

[florin80]

It`s not map_regions.tga that he needs to modify, but map_heights.tga. From the folder data\world\maps\base.

[Delvecchio1975]

exactly! it's so nice to have people around who know what they're saying.

[AqD]

Hmmm u get it wrong. Land-bridge is not a built-in type but a special hack in RTW map. Read this if you want to do it yourself: Land-bridges

[Arnold Legion]

Thanks for that information you lot.
adq, I've printed the instructions and I'll poke around and see what I can do.
I'll make a copy of the original map and keep it safe. just in case.