Bayonet- That important?

[Godless Pickle]

Was the bayonet that important in hard combat in the 18th century europe? I would think it would be easy to club a guy then stab him. They were more used latter in the century, but in the Empire tw time frame....

[BritPatriot1815]

IT IS ABSOLUTLY IMPORTANT!!! The British army is built on the bayonet (Not literly, just figure of speech), stabbing someone with a bayo in the stomach will burst their stomach killin' 'em. You don't have to fix bayonets but it'll give ya the edge in hand 2 hand combat

[driecken]

Indeed, during this time the British still charged with bayonets fixed after usually only 2-3 volleys, and generally it was pretty effective.

[Shacklock]

Pax Brittania! (Spelt wrong woooo)

[BritPatriot1815]

Indeed, during this time the British still charged with bayonets fixed after usually only 2-3 volleys, and generally it was pretty effective.

We're THE masters with the Bayonet!!!

[Captain Jin]

Considering the bayonet is still issued to the infantry over three hundred years after it's development would be a clue at it's usefulness. And I can tell you that it's more effective and useful in the past, then now.

[Strattios]

You bet it was. The British and even more so, the Hessian bayonet charges were the most feared weapons the US soldiers faced. That is, until we realized that the British charged without thinking. Then we'd have them charge some militia that were withdrawing and blast those redcoats point-blank with vollies from our continentals. The British were like bulls who got a good look at their own uniforms. They didn't even listen to their commanders when charging. The commmander could see the US waiting for them and would be like "wait, they want you to attack!". A real moment.

[HordeOfDoom]

I'm thinking bayonets will have more of an intimidation effect than actual destructive one. If oyu go charging headlong into organized resistance, you'll get slaughtered on the way in; but if you charge a beaten and disorganized enemy, the bayonets will cause them to rout.

Fear of steel was more powerful than the steel itself.

[schoenkoenig]

The bayonet's primary value was as an anti-cavalry weapon, since a horse isn't about to charge a dense wall of infantry bristling with bayonets.

Nor, for that matter, are humans.

[BritPatriot1815]

I'm thinking bayonets will have more of an intimidation effect than actual destructive one. If oyu go charging headlong into organized resistance, you'll get slaughtered on the way in; but if you charge a beaten and disorganized enemy, the bayonets will cause them to rout.

Fear of steel was more powerful than the steel itself.

Thats when discipline comes in, the British army has always been a well disciplined force, thats how our bayonet charges were so effective. As for the resistance, a charge would be to finish 'em off.

TIP for ETW: Research bayonets straight away when possible, in battle fire a desired amount of volleys & go in with the bayonet. This'll get your units elite quickly (hopefully). You of course don't need to this

[arkeologen]

We're THE masters with the Bayonet!!!

So were we Swedes

[Razor]

Was the bayonet that important in hard combat in the 18th century europe? I would think it would be easy to club a guy then stab him. They were more used latter in the century, but in the Empire tw time frame....

In the second half of the 17th century bayonets saw the daylight. After several upgrades the bayonet could be fixed and stayed fixed while being able to fire. That's why by the early 1700s the pike was put aside by regular armies (except for only a few because of their archaic-minded generals who wanted to keep the pike for some reason...). Now I'm not sure when the rest of the European armies had a ring bayonet, but I was pretty sure that already at the start of Empire TW the ring bayonet was invented, so why still including the bayonet upgrades in Empire if they were already the standard? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Btw, it would be much easier to stab someone than club someone. A unit standing in formation with a fixed bayonet pointing forwards against a unit who can only club soldiers to death is somewhat comparable to having a Greek phalanx formation with spears sticking out vs. a barbarian unit with clubs. Now who would have more chances of winning?

[Nik]

You bet it was. The British and even more so, the Hessian bayonet charges were the most feared weapons the US soldiers faced. That is, until we realized that the British charged without thinking. Then we'd have them charge some militia that were withdrawing and blast those redcoats point-blank with vollies from our continentals. The British were like bulls who got a good look at their own uniforms. They didn't even listen to their commanders when charging. The commmander could see the US waiting for them and would be like "wait, they want you to attack!". A real moment.

What battle was that?

[BritPatriot1815]

You bet it was. The British and even more so, the Hessian bayonet charges were the most feared weapons the US soldiers faced. That is, until we realized that the British charged without thinking. Then we'd have them charge some militia that were withdrawing and blast those redcoats point-blank with vollies from our continentals. The British were like bulls who got a good look at their own uniforms. They didn't even listen to their commanders when charging. The commmander could see the US waiting for them and would be like "wait, they want you to attack!". A real moment.

The British army isn't stupid enough to charge into an armythats ready to receive a charge straight away at the start of a battle (thats the American army ), a charge wouldn't be a general order, a charge would be decided by the regimental/battalion/company commander, if he decided the time was right, he screams out my second favourite word "CHARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (Tea is my No.1), a charge would be perfered after a small firefight.

TIP No.2-If you was a unit thats taking it hard on ETW, if it's possible, order them to "Fall Back". Thats not a military term for " IT, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!", it means walk backwards facing the enemy while firing at will.

[Nikodemus]

not really, aleast according to Peter Englund´s "Poltava"

according to him, around 80 % of all casualties were done by musket and cannon fire in this era, it´s a hollywood misconception that Infantry would charge into the fray with bayonets lowered, screaming wild murder.

the shock were far more important, seeing as most infantry hand to hand engagements at this time didn't really happen as we usually think i(Braveheart style); when the charge actually did take place, the opposing side were (for the most part) so demoralized that they ran at the sight of it but it does exists accounts of infantry even standing fast in a line vs a cavarly charge; firing at just the right time to stop the oncoming onslaught of horse, man and sword dead in its tracks

gee, i wounder who those guys were...:hmmm:

[Venetian-Prince]

Haha the ol bayonet, Hey Brits does Killiecrankie ring a bell? Proud Jacobites charging down extremly steep slopes to cut down the redcoats as they struggled to put thier cork bayonets in.

Masters? Bah. Not a match for a Targe, Claymore and a dirk.

If any army is going to face Highlanders, ya you need bayonets, clubbing em aint gonna do anything.

[BritPatriot1815]

Haha the ol bayonet, Hey Brits does Killiecrankie ring a bell? Proud Jacobites charging down extremly steep slopes to cut down the redcoats as they struggled to put thier cork bayonets in.

Masters? Bah. Not a match for a Targe, Claymore and a dirk.

If any army is going to face Highlanders, ya you need bayonets, clubbing em aint gonna do anything.

Don't forget though we returned the favor at Culloden, one of my favourite battles, tell ya what if there're any wacko Jacos (lol) in ETW I'll wipe the floor with their blood from musket, round-shot & grapeshot fire (And the bayonet)

[[SVK]Jakob]

Funny how the Brits think that they were the masters at the bayonet, when in reality the Brits favored defensive volley fire.

Its actually the Russians that are so famous (or imfamous) for their bayonet charges.


"The bullet is an idiot, the bayonet...a fine fellow" ---Suvorov

[Venetian-Prince]

Culloden was a mistake. Should never have fought on open ground against cannon and on boggy ground, charging was suicidal. if you ever visit the battlefield you'll see how boggy it is.

Yeah i agree with Jakob, the Hanoverians dominated with defensive volley fire and then advanced (cautiously) with bayonets charges.

(BTW Jakob this is jacobite from SVK)

[Markas]

Culloden was a mistake. Should never have fought on open ground against cannon and on boggy ground, charging was suicidal. if you ever visit the battlefield you'll see how boggy it is.

I've visited Culloden and got my foot stuck in the ground it's not the place to charge even now. I think the biggest mistake was the failed night attack that left troops exausted.