To represent new factions

[Principe Alessandro]

Hy I am a fan of DOtS and I love the way that you take to create this mod but I have some doubts about the non presence of the Teutonic Order in the game.

Why don't represent the Order as a vassal of the HRE or of the Papacy?

And also I know that will be the Mongols in the Steppe but why instead create a faction that can change from the Kipchaks-Pechenegs-Golden Horde?

Excuse for my english
And finally your future mod is the greatest of the tw series

[Copperknickers II]

Hy I am a fan of DOtS and I love the way that you take to create this mod but I have some doubts about the non presence of the Teutonic Order in the game.

Why don't represent the Order as a vassal of the HRE or of the Papacy?

And also I know that will be the Mongols in the Steppe but why instead create a faction that can change from the Kipchaks-Pechenegs-Golden Horde?

Excuse for my english
And finally your future mod is the greatest of the tw series

Both of those are under consideration. However for the Teutonic order as a vassal, we cannot have any more factions without taking another out, and they are not top on our list of priorities. That does not mean they won't be included through clever use of coding, mind you.

[Principe Alessandro]

Both of those are under consideration. However for the Teutonic order as a vassal, we cannot have any more factions without taking another out, and they are not top on our list of priorities. That does not mean they won't be included through clever use of coding, mind you.

Thank you, I appreciate your great works

[J_O_E]

Both of those are under consideration. However for the Teutonic order as a vassal, we cannot have any more factions without taking another out, and they are not top on our list of priorities. That does not mean they won't be included through clever use of coding, mind you.

could you please shed some light on how you will represent the Teutonic Order?

will they be rebels, or will they be represented by the papacy

[Azim]

Both rebels and the Papacy are being considered. We might just represent them through the HRE as well.

[Golo_1]

Representing the T.O. by the Papal States its a good idea, the idea is to stand independent forces in a specific area, to ensure game balance and challenge, in this case the baltic, where a T.O. represented by the HRE could unbalance the game. Rebels are not a long term force, the Papal States can represent the Holy Orders, as an "emergent faction" for example that a Papal army spawns at the prussian province with the priority of taking that province, thats the "how the T.O. was founded", anddd it would be a nice add if as the same way the Crusader States spawns at Jerusalem region after a succesful crusade, so does a Papal army representing the Templars, at cyprus for example, to not push the holy lands forces too much.

I feel too much pressure under the islamic factions in the east, just 2, against 4 orthodox, 1 pagan (mongols) and the emergent Crusader State, it would balance the "region" adding the Abbasids, it could be trade by the Cilician Armenia.

One more thing, about the emergent factions, if the campaign starts at 1080, even with 2 year per turn, if you are going to "spawn" those factions in their real date, it wont be actually dinamic, for example about the T.O., the reason of that order is to help the catholics against the threat of Lithuania, when can Lithuania (player or AI) become a threat for Poland? not in 1253 (when it could historically emerge), but just a few (at max) 20 turns after start, same with Portugal, an idea for those emergent is use the same as with the crusader states, when Poland losses a particular province, the T.O. emerges, when the Castillan-Leon captures a particular province, Portugal emerges.

One last thing, if this is going to have a good diplomacy AI, then something needs to be done with kingoms extentions, in all the good mods (eg. SS) the AI is "good" so when ur at war is at the most with 2 factions by their initiative, therefore being any up to 4 provinces faction, is an easy game for the player, and we dont want that lol, thats why im never ever the HRE, i play most T.O., KOJ, etc.

[Hengest]

The problem with the TO as the Papal states is that they weren't neccessarily friends of Rome, if any Catholic faction attacked the TO vassal as part of the Papacy that would trigger say Poland or Lithuania at war with the TO... which is not really ideal. There are merits for having the HRE represent the TO, although these could be tricky too.

If we can represent it through regional tech tree and units then that could be a solution...

[Prince Vinc]

Teutonic Order is a powerfull support of the Pope,with the Crusades and Hungarians period,but after the Teutonics have many troubles with Poland,catholic Kingdom.The pope become in this times a judge between Poland and Teutonic Order.

[Hengest]

But you agree it would be best represented as a part of the HRE?

[Basil 11]

But you agree it would be best represented as a part of the HRE?

I personally think that this is the best solution, as it would represent the movement of the German people into Eastern Europe under the protection of the HRE, plus the order and the empire had close ties...

[J_O_E]

im not sure about representing them with the HRE would be best idea because Poland or Lithuania would be be very quickly get getting into wars along the German border and not the Baltic

[Basil 11]

im not sure about representing them with the HRE would be best idea because Poland or Lithuania would be be very quickly get getting into wars along the German border and not the Baltic

hmmm... yeah - plus Lithuania historically expanded mainly East, as opposed to West... :hmmm:

[Monthy]

But you agree it would be best represented as a part of the HRE?

I do not agree with this point.
TO of course was Germans but they true plan was to cut itself in the middle of pagan tribes their own country! That same they want to do in the Hungary but King noted their plan and exile them.

Remember that HRE was consisted of principalities.
Later large families have assumed their own country:
Habsburg family estabilish Austria
Hohenzollern created Prussia.

I think thats the good idea is to make very good relations beetwen HRE and TO but not alliance. War with TO should decrese relations with HRE. When TO was in war with Poland HRE nerver join it. HRE

of course, threaten but never join.

[Gwyn ap Nud]

Hm... Having them as a part of the Papacy makes it impossible for them to get in trouble for overextending... It's hard, isn't it?

[ZiegenPeter]

Will this mod start about 1225? Because otherwise the team doesn't need to bother with that. THe Teutonic Order wasn't active in eastern europe before.
By the way: Why is sweden in DotS?

[Walkman810i]

Nope, the mod starts in 1080. Imho Sweden is an interesting and overlooked faction that can add some spice to the game. Just my opinion...

[Copperknickers II]

Why is Sweden in? Because noone else has it, and it has the capability to expand and become a great late game faction. It is often underestimated.

[Principe Alessandro]

I think that the best way to represent the order is to incorporate this in the Papal State, because to the inactivity of the Order in the expansion and because first appear another order the Livonian Brothers of the Sword

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonia..._Confederation

Terra Mariana (Land of St. Mary) was the official name[1] for Medieval Livonia[2] or Old Livonia [3] (German: Alt-Livland, Estonian: Vana-Liivimaa, Latvian: Vidzeme) that was formed in the aftermath of Livonian Crusade in the territories comprising the present day Estonia and Latvia. It was established on February 2, 1207 [4] as a principality of the Holy Roman Empire[5] and proclaimed by pope Innocent III in 1215 as a subject to the Holy See.[6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monasti...utonic_Knights

Early in 1224, Emperor Frederick II announced at Catania that Livonia, Prussia (with Sambia), and a number of neighboring provinces were Reichsfreie. This decree subordinated the provinces directly to the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Roman Empire only (as opposed to being under the jurisdiction of local rulers).
At the end of 1224, Pope Honorius III announced to all Christendom his appointment of Bishop William of Modena as the Papal Legate for Livonia, Prussia, and other countries.
As a result of the Imperial Bull of Rimini and the Papal Bull of Rieti, Prussia came into the Teutonic Order's possession. Under their governance, woodlands were cleared and marshlands made arable, upon which many cities and villages were founded, including Marienburg (Malbork) and Königsberg (Kaliningrad).


I think that historical is better to represent the monastic state as a subject of the Papacy and also for gameplay reason, I state incorporated in the Papacy is minus aggressive, a Teutonic Order led by the HRE isn't historically correct for the aggressive politics against Poland.
The Teutonic State was created only to spread christianity not for espansion against other christians.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...ate-of-Prussia

The pope installed the Teutonic Knights, a crusading order that reported directly to the Papacy, as rulers of the area. Under their governance, woodlands were cleared and marshlands made arable. Many cities and villages were founded upon those lands, including Marienburg(Malbork).

[Gwyn ap Nud]

The problem is, is that once the Papal States do capture some territory, in my experience they turn really aggressive, and with their Papal Guard spearmen, they destroy the other italian factions early on.

[Golo_1]

Represented by the Papal States seems to be the "realistic/balanced" best option, having a passive T.O. facing mainly Lithuania and if a Catholic faction wants a T.O. they could buy if or have a system to quickly request reconciliation with the Pope, AI factions very little times get excomunicated and for that what about innabilitate the crusading against catholic lands.