Roman legion formations?

[ray243]

I know the EB2 team managed to recreate certain formation. However, what about the romans famed triangle formation, or the tortise formation?

Is it possible?

[Ludens]

The tortoise formation is still in the game, IIRC, so it will be used. The Roman wedge however is not, and in any case we don't know exactly how it worked: were the wedges made out of small groups of legionaries or entire centuries?

[Dafuge]

You can't say that because I doubt a whole Cohort made a Testudo formation like how it will be done.

[Pinkkiller]

why wouldn't the whole cohort make tortoise formation? :hmmm:

[sirfiggin]

the wedge formation made like a saw at the front: it broke the enemy line and as long as it kept moving it could slaughter light infantry. It defeated Boudicca

[Dafuge]

A Cohort of 240 men doing the Testudo?

Be serious, a century of 80 men would probably to do it, like the wedge.

[ray243]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the romans used more of the wedge formation as compared to the tortise formation?

In an open battle, there seems to be no advantage in using the tortise as compared to the wedge.

[Dafuge]

Yes, I believe Romans would have used the wedge formation, probably in sieges ur if surrounded on three sides, in either case to push through enemy position and either roll up the flank or in the siege case, to break through the defenders.

The tortoise or testude formation was used in sieges when the defender had archers on it's walls. The Roman would approach using testudo, then break formation when at the gates or wall. They would then enter through a gap made using artillery, break through the gape, scale the wall or cover the egineers whilst they do they're work.

[ray243]

Which means it is more useful to have the wedge formation than the tortise formation?

I thought that in Shogun total war, there is a wedge formation for infrantry?

[BritPatriot1815]

There was but it'll be great to see the Romans do it on EB2

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It is impossible to mod in new formations. M2TW does not have an infantry wedge formation, therefore EB2 cannot have an infantry wedge formation.

The testudo may be possible to add, since it is still in the codes of the engine, but it may not even be added. It was a rarely used formation, only used during sieges.

[2-D Ron]

It is impossible to mod in new formations. M2TW does not have an infantry wedge formation, therefore EB2 cannot have an infantry wedge formation.

The testudo may be possible to add, since it is still in the codes of the engine, but it may not even be added. It was a rarely used formation, only used during sieges.

Can't you take the code that makes the Cavalry do Wedge and add it to the Roman Cohorts?

[ray243]

Or better yet, create the Roman legions as a cavalry unit, then edit the stats and allow them to behave like a infrantry unit.

[Dafuge]

Well the wedge formation would be totally unrealistic as I believe they wouldn't have one man at the front, rather a strip of maybe 4 or 5 of the most brave men who volenteered, so I would rather not have it, or have it, but wrong and bever use it.

[Ludens]

Can't you take the code that makes the Cavalry do Wedge and add it to the Roman Cohorts?

No, it is hard-coded. That means it is part of the core-engine (the .exe file) that cannot be readily altered. Also, distributing changed .exe files is effectively piracy, and thus illegal.

Or better yet, create the Roman legions as a cavalry unit, then edit the stats and allow them to behave like a infrantry unit.

It's possible, but I suspect that you cannot remove all cavalry effects by changing the stats. Anti-cav units would also get a bonus against legionaries, for example. I also found the wedge to be pretty useless in R:TW. Maybe it's different in M2:TW, but I guess that it will only lead to your legionaries dying faster.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The wedge formation (the one in RTW for cavalry) has a hardcoded bonus against cavalry and IIRC some kind of negative against other unit types. It may be possible to give legionaries this formation but it is completely impossible to changes the boni/mali.

[avesta]

the wedge formation made like a saw at the front: it broke the enemy line and as long as it kept moving it could slaughter light infantry. It defeated Boudicca

Somebody here has watched battlefield britain: boudicca's revolt

[Hellenes]

No, it is hard-coded. That means it is part of the core-engine (the .exe file) that cannot be readily altered. Also, distributing changed .exe files is effectively piracy, and thus illegal.

It depends on the country...oh and there are sites that are standing for decades perfectly clean and legal that distribute freely loads of NODVD exes....
As I see it as long as the said exe does not circumvent copy protection...its legal...

[peanut]

As far as i know wedge formattio for infantry was widely used in imperial era. If whole cohort could form such formation like saw with 2 "teeth" i am able to imagine 5 cohorts on the front in wedge and 5 behind them in rectangular. that should look like the one that defeated boudikka and slayed so many men...

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

I did some research on the Roman 'wedge' formation based mainly on RAT message threads and also using late Roman authors such as Vegetius and Mauricius - the following quote is from a post I made over in the IBFD forums some time ago:

The Pig’s Head

This offensive formation, referred to as the ‘caput porcinum’, is often or traditionally represented as a wedge of densely-packed men who charge and pierce an enemy battle-line. It punctures a hole through these men and shatters their cohesion thus allowing the rest of the main line to advance into and dissolve the whole line. It has an iconic status in ancient or fantasy fiction matched only by the charge of the cavalry into infantry lines.

Recently, however, discussion has shown that the ‘wedge’ isn’t a wedge as such and does not charge as a solid mass into a defensive line like an armoured arrow head. In fact, Vegetius is very clear as to the purpose and shape of the ‘caput porcinum’: it’s main aim was to concentrate a dense column of troops wider at the rear than at the front so that an immense volume of missile weapons could be concentrated onto a narrow frontage of the enemy line, thus weakening it so that when the formation made contact it could penetrate it easily. So in this sense, we move from a triangular outline to a trapezoid one or even a rectangular one, like a French infantry column attacking a British line.

Pompeius Magnus has done a magnificent job of illustrating how such a formation can be achieved in IBFD in the following thread -

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=106375&page=2

To re-cap Pompeius Magnus’ key points: order the formation to advance through the attacked line or unit so that it will penetrate it and then put them in guard mode so that they attack on all fronts from within the enemy formation. Very effective.

The full post can been read here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142738

My understanding of Roman military doctrine is that the infantry 'wedge' or cuneus is distinct from the cavalry wedge and resembles more a trapezoid. The saw formation on the other hand or 'forfex' which resembles the teeth referred to above is a defensive receiving formation designed to break up an incoming assault of masses of barbarian warriors. A formation easily set-up in the formation phase of the battle.