Traits and Ancillaries's game balance report

[Suppanut]

As far as I recalled, there is a way to cap 1 ancillaries per turn but need to depend all ancillary triggers through trait triggers like what EB do. But this method will radically change both traits and ancillaries file which is somewhat I don't like to do due to I must add amount of new traits that almost equally to amount of ancillaries in ancillaries file along with their triggers.

[htismaqe]

I wish I could play EB with XGM's unit roster.

[Suppanut]

Due to EB method is to radical for XGM, but fear not, I will looking for another way to do about balancing them. But it will need sometimes as now I working on traits, let's me finish traits first.

[Suppanut]

After think again and again, I decide to put htismaqe proposal on cap 1 ancillary per turn into action as I think this would be useful in the future but I must spend at least 1 month to do it along with other modification before next released.

[Suppanut]

To me it looks like it is too easy to gain epithets. I had a general gaining two epithets, Graecus and Germanicus after the same battle against a joined German-Mac army. Where is the fun in that?

There are many measure I must take to fix too easy to gain epithet.

1) Harder to gain(change condition along with deflat chance/inflat threshold)
2) Cut them down but I can't made up my mind to do it by myself. Here is the list of trait with epithet and their epithets.(not include ethnic related traits which I'm not plan to cut them)

Epithet list
XGM
tChakravatin, Chakravatin
tShahanshah, Shahanshah
tGrand_Sufet, Grand Sufet
tGreat_Malik, Great Malik
tTrue_Diadochus, the True Diadochus
tImperator, Imperator
tHigh_King, the High King
tSupreme_Overlord, the Supreme Overlord
PhlegmHumour, the Cold-hearted
BlackBileHumour, the Morbid
YellowBileHumour, the Angry
Inbred, the Idiot
Handsome, the Handsome
Ugly, the Ugly
LameFromBirth, the Lame
Lame, the Lame
BlindFromBirth, the Blind
Blind, the Blind
DeafFromBirth, the Deaf
Deaf, the Deaf
Insane, the Mad
GoodCommander, the Mighty
GoodAttacker, the Attacker
BadAttacker, the Foolhardy
GoodDefender, the Defender
GoodAmbusher, the Cunning
GoodSiegeAttacker, the Conqueror
GoodSiegeDefender, the Defender
GoodInfantryGeneral, the Infantryman
GoodCavalryGeneral, the Horseman
GoodRiskyAttacker, the Lucky
GoodRiskyDefender, the Steadfast
GloriousFool, the Glorious
TragicHero, the Tragic Hero
Feck, the Profane
RomanHero, Magnus
Brave, the Brave
Coward, the Lily-livered, the Coward
VictorRomanVirtue, Magnus
VictorOthersVirtue, the Conqueror
BattleScarred, "Scarface"
LostEagle, Infortunatus
RegainedEagle, Signifer
CapturedEagle, of the Eagles
Genocide, the Butcher
Drink, the Drunkard
Arse, the Perverse
Girls, the Womaniser
Slothful, the Fat
Gambling, the Gambler
Upright, the Honest
Miserly, the Mean
Perverted, the Foul
Anger, the Wrathful
Lewd, the Lewd
Liar, the Liar
DeceiverVirtue, the Cunning
Talkative, the Gossip
AuthoritarianRomanVirtue, the Harsh
Authoritarian, the Harsh
NonAuthoritarian, the Kind
Just, the Just
HarshRuler, the Cruel
KindRuler, the Good
gTaxTyrant, the Tyrant
ArchitectSkill, the Builder
EconomicsSkill, of the Golden Touch
NaturalPhilosophySkill, the Thinker
PhilosophySkill, the Philosopher
InspiringSpeaker, the Orator
Negotiation, the Golden Tongue
SpyMaster, the Cunning
AssassinMaster, the Killer
AssassinCatcher, the Fortunate
GoodBuilder, the Builder
GoodEngineer, the Engineer
PublicAtheism
, the Faithless
PublicFaith, the Pious
Pious, the Holy
Sacrilegious, the Blasphemer
ReligiousAscetics, the Hermit
Nonviolence, the Healer
Nonkleptocrat, the Keeper
Karma, the Worm?, the Wormlord!
ApicianRomanVice, Corpulentus
GamesFanRomanVice, the "Editor"
RacesFanRomanVice, the Charioteer
*DramasFanGreekVice, the Playwright, the Thespian
SedentryLifeNomadVice, the Trodder
Berserker, the Bloodyhanded
Warlord, the Great
BarbarianHuntingSkill, the Master Hunter
BarbarianCraftandArt, the Guild Master
BarbarianOralTradition, the Sage
BarbarianWarriorSkill, the Hero
BarbarianBardicSkill, the Bard
Cuckold, the Cuckold
gGreat, the Great
gCognomen_Africanus, Africanus
gCognomen_Germanicus, Germanicus
gCognomen_Gallicus, Gallicus
gCognomen_Britanicus, Britanicus
gCognomen_Parthicus, Parthicus
gCognomen_Graecus, Graecus
gCognomen_Aegyptiacus, Aegyptiacus
Nikator, Nikator
Soter, Soter
Epiphanes, Epiphanes
Euergetes, Euergetes
Poliorcetes, Poliorcetes
Philadelphus, Philadelphus
Keraunos, Keraunos
Philoromaeus, Philoromaeus
Barypos, Barypos
Philopator, Philopator
Philometor, Philometor
Zabinas, Zabinas
Theos, Theos
Dionysos, Dionysos
Physcon, Physcon
=120


XC only
tMegas_Strategos, the Megas Strategos
GoodOrganizer, the Master Organizer
BadOrganizer, the Disaster
WarriorWife, the Husband
Conqueror_of_Rome, Conqueror of Rome
Conqueror_of_Pella, Conqueror of Pella
Conqueror_of_Antioch, Conqueror of Antioch
Conqueror_of_Alexandria, Conqueror of Alexandria
Conqueror_of_Carthage, Conqueror of Carthage
Conqueror_of_Nisa, Conqueror of Nisa
Conqueror_of_Amasia, Conqueror of Amasia
Conqueror_of_Gergovia, Conqueror of Gergovia
Conqueror_of_Teutoburgum, Conqueror of Teutoburgum
Conqueror_of_Bactra, Conqueror of Bactra
Conqueror_of_Thospia, Conqueror of Thospia
Conqueror_of_Mariaba, Conqueror of Mariaba
Conqueror_of_Sparta, Conqueror of Sparta
Conqueror_of_Roxolani, Conqueror of the Roxolani
Conqueror_of_Gallaecia, Conqueror of Gallaecia
Conqueror_of_Seutopolis, Conqueror of Seutopolis
Conqueror_of_Pergamum, Conqueror of Pergamon
Conqueror_of_Taxila, Conqueror of Taxila
Conqueror_of_Britannia, Conqueror of Britannia
Conqueror_of_Numantia, Conqueror of Numantia
Conqueror_of_Sarmizegetusa, Conqueror of Sarmizegetusa
Conqueror_of_Seleucia, Conqueror of Seleucia
Conqueror_of_Athens, Conqueror of Athens
Conqueror_of_Avaricum, Conqueror of Avaricum
Liberator_of_Persepolis, Liberator of Persepolis
Liberator_of_Ecbatana, Liberator of Ecbatana
Inhuman, the Evil
SavageHellenisticVice, the Savage
EspritDeCorps, the Invincible
AntiEspritDeCorps, the Weakling
=34
If anyone have suggest on which traits not worth to have epithet please give your suggestion.

[Scutarii]

The two organizer ones seem fairly minor, not enough for an epithet....

[htismaqe]

OK, so I broke down and installed 5.8.13 this morning and fired it up, determined to ignore my dislikes.

In the 4th turn, I had a family member come of age in Athens.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, you read that right. He gained 5 ancilliaries instantly upon coming of age.

I'm gonna keep playing though.

[Roman Warlord]

GoodCommander, the Mighty
GoodAttacker, the Attacker
GoodDefender, the Defender
GoodAmbusher, the Cunning
GoodSiegeAttacker, the Conqueror
GoodSiegeDefender, the Defender
GoodInfantryGeneral, the Infantryman
GoodCavalryGeneral, the Horseman
GoodRiskyAttacker, the Lucky
GoodRiskyDefender, the Steadfast

These all can be easily gained by one general who is part of your main fighting force.

[CaesarVincens]

I've rarely had a general gain any of the command trait epithets, (one "the mighty" I think). I'd start by looking at one and two level traits with epithets, then three level, and finally, traits with more than three levels.

[Scutarii]

OK, so I broke down and installed 5.8.13 this morning and fired it up, determined to ignore my dislikes.

In the 4th turn, I had a family member come of age in Athens.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, you read that right. He gained 5 ancilliaries instantly upon coming of age.

I'm gonna keep playing though.

Happens to me all the time, Athens special building is so overpowered... I've taken to avoiding putting FM's in Athens, just the one governor there, he's my resident super-FM.

[Roman Warlord]

Ceaser- I have one general who is rotating though those names most battles.

[Scutarii]

So, tie them to a higher level of trait: instead of GoodDefender being "the defender" make it GreatDefender.

[Suppanut]

Epithet that show is the from the most recent trait that received point and already across the threshold of level that give epithet.

So if you have epithet from traits A and B and C. If trait A is just received its point then their epithet will show up replace the others. This is the reason why your epithet is rotate like child's play of musical chair.

I can stop their rotation by modify their trigger a bit in next release.(In fact not a bit as I already plan some radical change for all trigger.)

I will try to depowered Athens in next released too.

[CaesarVincens]

So, tie them to a higher level of trait: instead of GoodDefender being "the defender" make it GreatDefender.

It already should be, those are from vanilla afaik, and the epithet is given with the last level of the trait tree.

[LucretiusTC]

It seems to me that the problem with those super-Generals and super-Governors is only related to those Factions who have an relatively easy access to the Academies and Special Buildings. When you think about this game on the campaign map there are Factions like the Seleucids, Scythians and Sabaeans who have to deal with much longer distances between their settlements. For instance you might have one Seleucid Family Member in Hecatompylos and he has to rule 3 settlements (including Zadracarta and Apamea) and fighting against the Parthians and Bactians too. His nearest Seleucid collague might be in Isthakhr or Susa, and it would take at least 3 turns to get him in Apamea.

In that kind of cases I would prefer to have a General/Governor who has at least a capable for his job (+3 command, + 3 management) rather than superior General (+5 command) or superior Governor (+5 management). I mean those cases when there is only one Family Member available in the large area, and there are no any academies nearby.

About those epithets I think we could cut down these from 6 to 3:
LameFromBirth, the Lame
Lame, the Lame
BlindFromBirth, the Blind
Blind, the Blind
DeafFromBirth, the Deaf
Deaf, the Deaf

Despite those epithets there have been great military leaders who have become One-eyed like Hannibal Barca (c. 217 BC in Italy) and Antigonos Monophthalmus (aka Kyklops; the founder of the Antigonid dynasty), and the later times conqueror Timur Lenk was a lame.

If there are too many retinues available in Taxila, then Suppanut might have to choose between the major and minor retinues, and maybe cut down those who are too similar or secondary for the gameplay.

Then in my recent Sabaean campaign I noticed that there was a very negative retinue "Pyromaniac" (-3 from law, +3 to unrest, -3 influence), and because of that I decided to keep that Family Member outside of the city.

Luc.

[Suppanut]

It seems to me that the problem with those super-Generals and super-Governors is only related to those Factions who have an relatively easy access to the Academies and Special Buildings. When you think about this game on the campaign map there are Factions like the Seleucids, Scythians and Sabaeans who have to deal with much longer distances between their settlements. For instance you might have one Seleucid Family Member in Hecatompylos and he has to rule 3 settlements (including Zadracarta and Apamea) and fighting against the Parthians and Bactians too. His nearest Seleucid collague might be in Isthakhr or Susa, and it would take at least 3 turns to get him in Apamea.

In that kind of cases I would prefer to have a General/Governor who has at least a capable for his job (+3 command, + 3 management) rather than superior General (+5 command) or superior Governor (+5 management). I mean those cases when there is only one Family Member available in the large area, and there are no any academies nearby.

About those epithets I think we could cut down these from 6 to 3:
LameFromBirth, the Lame
Lame, the Lame
BlindFromBirth, the Blind
Blind, the Blind
DeafFromBirth, the Deaf
Deaf, the Deaf

Despite those epithets there have been great military leaders who have become One-eyed like Hannibal Barca (c. 217 BC in Italy) and Antigonos Monophthalmus (aka Kyklops; the founder of the Antigonid dynasty), and the later times conqueror Timur Lenk was a lame.

If there are too many retinues available in Taxila, then Suppanut might have to choose between the major and minor retinues, and maybe cut down those who are too similar or secondary for the gameplay.

Then in my recent Sabaean campaign I noticed that there was a very negative retinue "Pyromaniac" (-3 from law, +3 to unrest, -3 influence), and because of that I decided to keep that Family Member outside of the city.

Luc.

Thanks, Luc. Now on my way of cutting trigger from Taxila. On Pyromaniac, I just give not sane requirement and add randompersent > 99(at bottom of possible chance).

Something you must known for Pyromaniac is almost every faction could have it as requirement are from temple of forge and have some fire obsession.

[Suppanut]

I will release Ethnic Traits version 2.0 at the end of this week which mean it would break savegame completely which roughly have these features.

Ethnic Traits module 2.0(yes, break savegame completely)

Main feature
- Many new traits and ancillaries from XC, included whole set of unique ancillaries(+150 more)
- Sort text files for other modder friendly
- Clean-up files by removed unused traits and ancillaries as well as triggers from files
- Revised bonus and threshold of traits. Now many of good traits have some negative side in them.
- Revised ethnic module
- Rebalance ancillaries and traits and reduce trigger chances
- Mentor system, now ancillaries will influence what traits your character gains in the same way as academy do
- Ancillaries weight system, Now ancillaries will have weight and would prevent character to gain ancillaries once retinues stock is overweight.
- Reduce special building and education comes of age ancillaries triggers down to the bottom
- More garrison scripts
- Deflat epithets, now it hard to gain last level traits that have epithets
- More on tax and governing issue now there are different kind of traits up to your tax setting and faction
- Vice from imperial title, differ via culture and title under hidden "DoomedOfEmpire"
- More emphasis on the Loyalty feature with more traits and ancilliaries that affect loyalty.
- Leadership bonus from faction leader to effect overall faction's generals.
>Management: +-corruption
>Influence: +-bribe cost&loyalty

Stat Issue
- Management should harder to gain from traits
- deflat influence spam in traits
- specialization of character on command or management by stop self perpetuated once others of attribute is more than 5. I may take other measure to archive it too.

Rework and Fix
- rework on health and supply traits
- impermanence traits' bonus fix
- Rework education system, now you could change the school for your children
- Rewrite Incarnation and Karma module
- Harder to gain the Great + some new cognomens
- add random factor to reduce chance to gain ancillaries from special buildings to the bottom

New Traits&Ancillaries
- rework on gamefanromanvice
- Add Satrap trigger to parthia, seleucid, britons
- Carthage Government
>Tribunal of Judge(famous 104 to monitor generals loyalty) as normal ancillaries(not office) to monitor general with too high command(-1 command, +2 to law, +100 cost to bribe)
>Leader of Popular Assembly who increases influence and management
>Trade Union Leader who increases trade (+5%) and public order.
- Meritocracy(just+Battle)&Favouritism(unjust+battle) traits
- new greek cities and Illyrian traits
- Olympic traits

For those who can't wait, you could see them in XC version which I already released(which more complicated XGM version).

Htismaqe, please prepare to playtest this module.

[Suppanut]

Here is updated on rebalance ancillaries and traits as I promised with all these features.

Ethnic Traits module 2.0(yes, break savegame completely)

Main feature
- Many new traits and ancillaries from XC, included whole set of unique ancillaries(+150 more)
- Sort text files for other modder friendly
- Clean-up files by removed unused traits and ancillaries as well as triggers from files
- Revised bonus and threshold of traits. Now many of good traits have some negative side in them.
- Revised ethnic module
- Rebalance ancillaries and traits and reduce trigger chances
- Mentor system, now ancillaries will influence what traits your character gains in the same way as academy do
- Ancillaries weight system, Now ancillaries will have weight and would prevent character to gain ancillaries once retinues stock is overweight.
- Reduce special building and education comes of age ancillaries triggers down to the bottom
- More garrison scripts
- Deflat epithets, now it hard to gain last level traits that have epithets
- More on tax and governing issue now there are different kind of traits up to your tax setting and faction
- Vice from imperial title, differ via culture and title under hidden "DoomedOfEmpire"
- More emphasis on the Loyalty feature with more traits and ancilliaries that affect loyalty.
- Leadership bonus from faction leader to effect overall faction's generals.
>Management: +-corruption
>Influence: +-bribe cost&loyalty

Stat Issue
- Management should harder to gain from traits
- deflat influence spam in traits
- specialization of character on command or management by stop self perpetuated once others of attribute is more than 5. I may take other measure to archive it too.

Rework and Fix
- rework on health and supply traits
- impermanence traits' bonus fix
- Rework education system, now you could change the school for your children
- Rewrite Incarnation and Karma module
- Harder to gain the Great + some new cognomens
- add random factor to reduce chance to gain ancillaries from special buildings to the bottom

New Traits&Ancillaries
- rework on gamefanromanvice
- Add Satrap trigger to parthia, seleucid, britons
- Carthage Government
>Tribunal of Judge(famous 104 to monitor generals loyalty) as normal ancillaries(not office) to monitor general with too high command(-1 command, +2 to law, +100 cost to bribe)
>Leader of Popular Assembly who increases influence and management
>Trade Union Leader who increases trade (+5%) and public order.
- Meritocracy(just+Battle)&Favouritism(unjust+battle) traits
- new greek cities and Illyrian traits
- Olympic traits

[Suppanut]

Spoiler warning for Ethnic Traits 2.0!

1) Now tax policy is changing with mixed filling of people about it. Such as...

When you ask those romans about tax policy those romans will tell you that low tax is at best demogouge and at worst is effeminate wimp while high tax is the TRUE! ROMANS! But when you ask others their reply would be different such as most of easterner will think low and moderate tax is kindess of benevolent leader at best and too soft at worst while too high tax would think their leader as effecient admininstrator at best and harsh at worst.

So now fiscal policy for governors will more flexible than before as outcome will different.(But city without governor still the same, tax as high as long as they not riot.)

2) Faction leader now effect on other generals under him if he is excel in management then other generals will not able to do the red tape. and if your faction leader is so high in charisma then your general would have high loyalty and harder to bribe. But if your leader is low on these issue then all thing would be reversed, low management will allow your general to corruption and low influence would cause your loyalty crisis to your faction.

3) Now most traits with management will stop gain or grow if command attribute is too high(>5) this also the same with command if management attribute is too high(>5). To gain both attributes to higher than 6 are still possible but need higher effort and help, and yes, with some price in character flawed to pay.

4) I have done many measure to stop problem of ancillaries rampant. Not only trigger now drastically reduct as well as some more specific condition to give, now ancillaries will also have weight which when ancillaries weight is too high then there would no longer spawn on character unless you transfer some ancillaries to other characters. Although family's friend is the most precious family legacy(as now they are extremely hard to gain) but sometimes you must let's them go apart to their ways or let's them rest in peace for good.

5) Once you faction gain special leader's title then it would be mean the new eras has come to your faction, end the age of humble after your faction is big enough to call THE! GREAT! EMPIRE!, and then your faction will doom to fall. New eras will good at first 3-4 generations but then it will gradually fallen and end up doomed as all dynasty in the history. So you should kept a series of good and young leaders to made your fall slower and able to end your game with happy-ending. On how they fall will up to what title you gained.

[Suppanut]

Anyone who try ET2.0 please report problem you encounter as well as game balance when play with it for future rebalance.