HundredYearsWar 0.99 - General Discussion

[Fabbe]

Looks great

My problem is when I start the mod, the original game comes up. I have no past experience with mods in this game, so any help would be aprreciated.

[Condottiere SOG]

This mod is excellent! I am very satisfied with its construction. There are xml files I would modify. I would also flesh out the EDU units.....ie give them a more attributes. It is visibly appealing to see that you have not removed swords from pikemen. Halberdiers and other non-pike units do not need phalanx capability, they are better off without. mounts file needs work. Crossbows are not realistic. What we are told about crossbows now days are as inaccurate as the musket mythology. Accounts from period authors elaborate on this. At 100 yards, a bolt could bury itself into a fully armoured man. It would pass through men with less competent armour. Unfortunately this cannot be duplicated by the game. The longbow did not outrange the crossbow, it outperformed it. Longbowmen could release up to 12 arrows a minute whereas a crossbowman could loose 4 if he were well trained. It is also why the musket took prominence. When the longbow disappeared, Englishmen, as well as others, still relied on the crossbow as well as the musket for their respective ranges. in some cases, it was a matter of personal preference. There were many specialized proficient crossbowmen whom could have been considered snipers at the time and they are mentioned in history. The English would have lost all those heralded battles if they had met their opponents with 'honour'. That is also stated in the annals.

Character movement is too low. John of Gaunt led a 'chevauchee' that covered over 750 miles in three weeks. He is responsible for decent French people to this day having a restlessness in their hearts about the English. I have changed that to 720(for named characters in the game per the six months which was average figuring in 4 miles a day. Captains get 630.

I have begun modifying this mod to my preference. I am overjoyed this mod has come about.

One itchy matter, both France and HRE were quite wealthy at this time. Enough that it showed when nobles gathered either on the battlefield and court. It does not show in-game. Starting funds and kings purse are severely under-rated, for all factions..........I understand that giving them less money makes the game harder. It is hardest to beat a foe with some sustained ability.

A+

Thank You!

[theStig]

Units have not recieved attention yet, since I simply do not have the time to mod, and might not ever come back to modding.
As for France: it should be hard, torn by rebellion and internal conflict between nobles, and most of all poor.
As for movement speed: 750 miles per 3 weeks is unrealistic, that's 250 miles per week, roughly 34 per day, that's 50 km per day. Not done.


Furthermore, I do not trust period authors, the only reliable source is non-existant.

[=NF= Vasileios_the2nd]

The longbow did not outrange the crossbow, it outperformed it. Longbowmen could release up to 12 arrows a minute whereas a crossbowman could loose 4 if he were well trained.

What Stig said. We have not yet modded the EDU and generally the battles yet. Still, giving longbowmen a decent rate of fire is a nice idea.

The English would have lost all those heralded battles if they had met their opponents with 'honour'. That is also stated in the annals.

As you can see, we have tried to limit the cavalry use in English armies. Maybe we will limit it even further. The main idea behind the English is to be forced to really rely on longbowmen to win a battle. We want them to not be able to meet their opponents with "honour", as you said.

Character movement is too low. John of Gaunt led a 'chevauchee' that covered over 750 miles in three weeks. He is responsible for decent French people to this day having a restlessness in their hearts about the English. I have changed that to 720(for named characters in the game per the six months which was average figuring in 4 miles a day. Captains get 630.

Character movement seems okish atm, but maybe it changes again in the future. Biggest problem with giving family members a lot marching points is that you loose possibilities of open battles. Most battles already are sieges. If you give them incresed movement, you will end up playing only sieges..

One itchy matter, both France and HRE were quite wealthy at this time. Enough that it showed when nobles gathered either on the battlefield and court. It does not show in-game. Starting funds and kings purse are severely under-rated, for all factions..........I understand that giving them less money makes the game harder. It is hardest to beat a foe with some sustained ability.

As you know, a poor economy, unfortunatelly is almost the only way to go, to make your game really hard to play. Lots of money will make HRE and France killing machines. This would ruin the balance we want to have on the map. But I have a few thoughts on this. Hopefully next release will be more balanced for France at least.


And thank you for your kind words

[Feste]

Looks great but the icing on the cake would be Scotland.

[DragonsWarrior]

im back computer finaly worked the mod is great only 1 prob why are the names of the citys and castles not under the settlement. instead there to the left which is abit annoying but nevm although definatly a great mod played and improved

[=NF= Vasileios_the2nd]

Looks great but the icing on the cake would be Scotland.

We are thinking of this..

why are the names of the citys and castles not under the settlement. instead there to the left which is abit annoying

We are not getting the same behaviour. Maybe you have changed something in your vanilla files? Noone else has reported this, and none of us have changed it :hmmm:

[theStig]

It appears that Vas does not share eye-candy with the fans, he's a very bad PR-man

He made these, and believe me, he is going to put him in ... unless he wants to find my boot up his backside:


They're captain-models and we will make sure that Vas will make many more nice things

[Lysimachus]

Will they be battle models as well?

[Carlton Banks]

cool mod

[theStig]

Will they be battle models as well?

mmm, might be an idea. I personally don't really like the current models. But we don't want to give Vas too much work

[Lysimachus]

If that is the case can captains be given the appropriate animations? For example,it would seem strange if the german captain was flinging around his Zweihänder like it's some long sword.

[=NF= Vasileios_the2nd]

Damn you Stig. You ruined my fun! Jk, I completely forgot to post them here.
Alex Coles, the strat models need really a lot of work to be done on them yet. The most important thing I want to work on is the animation.
After I finish the strat models, maybe I will try to put them in battles too. But that is definitely not a priority. And I am starting to be time pressed.

Also, to all of you:
We are, more or less on holidays (Oam is already, and I will be from 28/12/08 till 4/1/09 or something), just in case you wonder were we have disappeared again!

Keep the nice ideas and suggestions coming!
*cheers*

[klok]

any news?

[on a mountain]

No, I have just come back from vacation. Sorry!

Vas and I will be working on mercenaries, Wales, and Flandres for the next weeks. Should be out soon if everything goes alright.

[Lysimachus]

So you mean Welsh and Flemish mercenaries, or factions? You know, i'd kill for better Burgundian units because their roster is a bit lacking.

[Condottiere SOG]

Units have not recieved attention yet, since I simply do not have the time to mod, and might not ever come back to modding.
As for France: it should be hard, torn by rebellion and internal conflict between nobles, and most of all poor.
As for movement speed: 750 miles per 3 weeks is unrealistic, that's 250 miles per week, roughly 34 per day, that's 50 km per day. Not done.


Furthermore, I do not trust period authors, the only reliable source is non-existant.

It comes from Desmond Seward, an authority on this period. It is registered in historical annals. You can find this information at Historical Societies in London. Which is where he received the information. John of Gaunt's men were on horseback. It is not unrealistic. Sala-ah-Din moved 250000 men from Badhdad to Jerusalem in weeks. Beyazid Yilderim took 100000 men to Rhodes in less than two months from Rum. John of Gaunt kept a ledger.

we are talkng about six month turns-at ten miles a day that is 1800 miles. I was being conservative.

What I am saying, is that if you walk/hike from Paris to Angouleme, it will not take 2-3 years. I think TWC guestimations on travel speed for this time period is based on CA and nothing else. I have had plenty of time for traveling, by car, foot and horseback and I could do better. If a person could make it on foot from Paris to Poitiers on foot in less than a month, than multiply that distance by 6 and you have realistic traveling rates. That is history for me.

[on a mountain]

Thanks for the wisdom Condottiere.

The problem is one of gameplay, I would think. Do we really want to have deadly chevauchées, able to reach any siege in time to relieve it? I personally am against it.

Between versions 0.7 and 0.8 we have increased movability of units quite significantly. This has improved gameplay tremendously, but brought the eternal woe of a larger number of sieges with it, which I wanted to avoid (I like my field battles).

However.

I see the point, and recognise the importance the chevauchées had in their pure destructive power (essentially they were pirate raids, like the Garonne valley chevauchée, I forget who led it, but they fell over the land like the vikings, and returned with more plunder than they could carry). So I am thinking that we might give generals and their bodyguards a larger movement capability, in order to simulate the fast chevauchées. As soon as they are incorporated into an army, obviously they slow down.


Alex Coles: they will be factions. We desperately need sth to keep the deadly HRE in check in the north, as well as the english. I haven't yet managed to win as the french, they are ridiculously difficult (which makes it quite fun, really)

[Henry of Grosmont]

It comes from Desmond Seward, an authority on this period.

No disrespect, but Seward is considered more of a belletrist nowadays.
Biased belletrist, mind you.

It is registered in historical annals. You can find this information at Historical Societies in London. Which is where he received the information. John of Gaunt's men were on horseback. It is not unrealistic. Sala-ah-Din moved 250000 men from Badhdad to Jerusalem in weeks. Beyazid Yilderim took 100000 men to Rhodes in less than two months from Rum. John of Gaunt kept a ledger. we are talkng about six month turns-at ten miles a day that is 1800 miles. I was being conservative.

Hmm. We don't believe that Henry V sent 5,000 seek home from Harfleur. Although this number exist in historical annals. After careful research in England, France and Holland, historians found that the maximum would be 2,000. Medieval armies weren't trained to cover 20 miles per day, the way Roman legions did. It's a fact. Look at the Black Princes' Occitaine chevauchee. The chronicles praised his ability to cover 25 miles at some point. Also, people seem to forget that the vast majority of them (if not all) were mounted.

What I am saying, is that if you walk/hike from Paris to Angouleme, it will not take 2-3 years. I think TWC guestimations on travel speed for this time period is based on CA and nothing else. I have had plenty of time for traveling, by car, foot and horseback and I could do better. If a person could make it on foot from Paris to Poitiers on foot in less than a month, than multiply that distance by 6 and you have realistic traveling rates. That is history for me.

True, but it took a couple of months (three and a half, If I recall it right) to Henry, Earl of Derby to travel from Avignon to Boulogne, where he took ship home. And he had just a small company with him. Don't forget that armies weren't just soldiers. The baggage trains, carpenters, masons, etc.
Just my 2 cents.

[on a mountain]

Let's try to not derail this into a realism debate.

We have to focus on what is playable.

No matter who is right or wrong, or how reliable the sources are, I guess that the working model to give generals the ability to move very fast (and no one else) is quite a sound one - even on a historic basis.

Like Rufats says, most - if not all - men in chevauchées were mounted (from cheval, french for horse; in spanish and portuguese a chevauchée is also known as cavalgada but without necessarily carrying the same wartime connotations)