Discussion and Announcements

[DimeBagHo]

They look great Seleucos. I will probably put them into an updated version of 1.2 tonight. At the moment I'm working on getting a set of sprites organised.

[DimeBagHo]

The updated file for version 1.2 is now available. The only changes are a few corrected typos, the addition of a set of sprites for the new units (which might help performance on some machines), and the new unit and info cards for the Syracusan quinquireme from Seleucos.

If you already have V1.2 you can install this update over the top.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

Ok... this is a little embarrassing for me.
When I saw that version 1.2 had come out I rushed to contribute by Syracusan Quinquireme cards without testing them first... and there was a small oversight in layers. Some of the columns supporting the catapult tower were classified as background, and so do not appear in the game. I have, however, corrected the problem, and so here are the fixed versions.
The 2 files can be copied to their respective UI folders.

[DimeBagHo]

Another update of version 1.2 is available, with the corrected cards for the Syracusan quinquireme. The cards are the only change, so again if you already have V1.2 you can just install this updated version over the top.

[Borsook]

Hi. I've never been too keen on playing greece, but I got to hand it to you, this is really well done. Hats off.

[DimeBagHo]

Now that the unit roster is more-or-less set I've been looking at ways to fill out other aspects of the Greek Cities faction. In particular I've been looking at possible ways to impliment either "great achievement" goals, or missions.

I had hoped that I could do this sort of thing witrh scripting, but that looks like a dead end. You can start up a script automatically at the start of a campaign, but the player can't save or load while it is running, and there is no way to restart it after loading from a save.

I think I might be able to hijack the advice system to implement missions though. Roughly the way it would work is that the strat advisor would pop up and tell you what the mission is. On completion they would pop up and tell you that the mission is done. The reward would be collected by hitting "show me" (via a show-me script). I still need to study the advice triggers more to see if this is really practical.

I have already implemented one "great achievement" style goal through the character traits system. The way it works is, if a general wins a great victory in Europe then he gets a "Victor in Europe" trait, and likewise for Africa and Asia. If he gets all three then he gets a "Legendary Conqueror" trait, and "the Great" added on to his name.

Some other possible great achievements that I have in mind (these could be done through the advice system or the trait system) are: (1) Unification of Greece; (2) Liberation of former Greek colonies; (3) Re-unification of Alexander's empire.

Any other ideas?

[DimeBagHo]

Thanks Borsook. I love hoplites, but when you have nothing but hoplites to work with it can get a bit boring. I think I fixed that problem *wink* .

[DimeBagHo]

Yet another update for V1.2. At the start of a campaign Greek generals were getting the old style of cavalry. I have updated desc_strat.txt to make sure they get the new version. The update is compatible with earlier versions of V1.2, but it will not make any difference to a campaign that you have already started.

[Leonidas123]

How about a new skin for the armored hoplites? I mean come on we all know that the current skin is kind of...plain. I think if you do for armored hoplites what you did for hypaspists, then this mod will be perfect.

[Leonidas123]

One more thing, Dimebag. You said earlier that you were going to put an arcani-like group in for the greeks. I read about a Spartan assasin group called the Krypteia and i think this would be a good name for the greek arcani.

Just a suggestion. Keep up the awesome work.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

Krypteia was actually a phase in the training of young Spartans, when they roamed the country, sleeping during the day and assassinating Helots during the night (this training practice was reviled by other Greeks as barbaric. The Spartan ephoroi (ruling council) repeatedly declared war on their Helot slaves, so those assassinations could be morally sanctioned as combat kills). All Spartans were trained in night combat tactics and covert missions.

[DimeBagHo]

Thanks for the suggestion Leonidas. The Krypteia do sound very close to what I was thinking (minus the whole bit about murdering helots in their sleep). The unit is unlikely to be much like Arcani apart from the improved hiding skills - probably closer to heavy peltasts in stats, with bonuses against elephants and chariots.

I want a unit whose primary weapon is surprise. Maybe surprise and fear...

[Leonidas123]

I appologize for my lack of intelligence about the Krypteia. I just heard of them in the book Gates of Fire and thought they were an assassin group. I was just throwing ideas out there man.

[Leonidas123]

Another idea for you Dimebag is possibly putting Spartan squires in the game as a kind of light infantry. There is a skin out right now for Helot slaves, but unfortunately they suck.

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Hi all
or add Spartan cavalry


But IMHO MGM 1.2 is perfect like it is. Adding too much thing would make it less "minimal"...
MGM is supposed to be a correction of the GCS? right? some kind of things that should have been in the vanilla version, right?
I say: do not develop it further.
BUT
develop a whole new mod, bigger which would use the MGM, some kind of Drakon's Hellenic World with better textures, units...
this to separate the "minimal" version from a "big mod" that changes a lot things in the game:
cause as it is now, I guess that 90% of the community could use it and make mods ON IT.
But if it grows too big, it would become too specific :crying

just my 2 cents of €

[Leonidas123]

I think that is a great idea. Turn "minimal" into "major" and perfect the greeks.

but hey i think mgm os awesome already so whatever dimebag does is sure to be awesome.

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Originally posted by Leonidas123@Apr 2 2005, 03:01 AM
I think that is a great idea. Turn "minimal" into "major" and perfect the greeks.

but hey i think mgm os awesome already so whatever dimebag does is sure to be awesome.

yeah, I agree
dimebag's work is great. We are just suggesting things (as he asked for it )

[Seleucos of Olympia]

I have to agree with Drakon. MGM is an elegant mod, but its very elegance lies in its minimalism. I am all for a maximal Greek mod, with all the proposed (or just imagined) features, but in my opinion it should not be at the expense of MGM v1.2, which delivers just what most people expected from this mod. You still have my support for whatever grandiose project constitutes the next step.

@Leonidas123 – I didn’t mean to insult your intelligence. None of us have perfect knowledge of ancient historical units (not even professional historians can make such a claim), we all just read what comes our way and try to fill each other’s blanks. The young Spartans training in the Krypteia do come close to DimeBagHo’s original specifications for a covert unit, so your suggestion was a good one.

[DimeBagHo]

I agree Drakon - the main attraction of this mod is that it fits into vanilla RTW very smoothly.

I've been looking at the possibility of using the advice system to implement missions or great achievements. I think it could be done, but I also think that it would be quite intrusive and that it would change the feel of the game a lot. So that idea isn't going to make it into future versions of MGM. Might be a good idea for a "major" Greek mod.

Instead future versions of MGM are going to focus on more subtle improvements. Other Greek factions will be brought into line with the changes made to GCS (the new general units, naval units, and so on). The character trait system will be further greekified. The only new unit I'm planning to add is the Krypteia.

Something else that might be fun to add is a provincial campaign that starts at a later date with all of the factions already significanty teched up and heavily armed - so people can match up the GCS against Rome's finest without having to play through 100, or more, turns first.

[DimeBagHo]

As for a major Greek mod - I'm having a hard time thinking of something that would be worth doing. Other periods are already covered by other mods (like Troy, AoH, and TS-TW). RTR and EB are both (in different ways) re-working all of the factions to make them more realistic. If I re-worked the GCS to make it more realistic within a largely unchanged vanilla RTW then it would probably wind up looking too much like another Macedon/Seleucid faction.

That leaves the possiblity of a mod that is just MGM with some added game-play features like missions and great achievements.