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Thread: [RS 1.6a] My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

  1. #1

    Default [RS 1.6a] My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    EDIT: After trying with 3x recruit and 2x maintain, I tried 2x recruit with 2x maintain and it worked better for the AI.

    I recently started playing RS again, but I modified the EDU (for 0-turn) so that all units now cost double to recruit and double to maintain. I did this to address two problems:

    -Stack spamming by enemy AI later in the game, forcing you to fight multiple major battles every single turn. Now, the enemy can still raise stacks quickly as in 0-turn (allowing the AI to be more effective), but the number of full stacks possible is significantly reduced.

    -Ridiculous amounts of money in the treasury. When playing as Rome, after the first few turns I always ended up having so much money that I couldn't figure out how to spend it all (this is mostly because of the tax bonuses given in home regions and the high income from mines, but also from the fairly low unit costs in general in RS). Unless I simply gave it away or cheated using the console, my treasury would accumulate astronomically. I feel with 2x initial costs and 2x maintenance the economy is much more balanced, and if you want to field lots of legions (especially early in the game) then you'll need to pay attention to your economy.

    I've been testing this more expensive EDU file with RS on both BI and ALX, and I have to say I like it much better. It makes the 0-turn recruitment far more tolerable. The AI will still invade with multiple stacks and can still recruit defense forces quickly (leaving the challenge and advantages of 0-turn), but the increased costs seem to prevent the AI from throwing multiple full stacks at you every single turn.

    Also, the financial situation for the player now makes the game MUCH more challenging. With double costs the economy seems far more balanced. Militarily, I can't afford many a ridiculous number of legions, so I have to use the ones I have carefully. And regarding construction, I can no longer build whatever I want in every single city, which forces me to make tough strategic choices. Provided I keep military spending under control, I can afford to fund expensive construction projects in some cities but certainly not all at once. This ultimately acts as a real check on my expansion: If I recruit lots of legions to steamroll the AI quickly, then I'm not left with enough money to keep the conquered provinces under control with buildings and garrisons.

    Finally, the increased costs seem to slow expansion for both AI and player, which in my mind is a good thing.

    The EDU file with 2x costs and 2x maintenance is attached below (as export_descr_unit.txt). (The previous file that was 3x/2x is also available as export_descr_unit_3x2x.txt... but you don't need this if you just want the 2x/2x) Note that this is for RS 1.5b. Also, please note that this file is not officially sanctioned by the RS team in any way... it was strictly my creation for personal use and I'm offering it just so others can try it. To use it, you simply need to copy it over the old file in your "Rome - Total War/data/" folder. (Make a backup copy of the old file: "Rome - Total War/data/export_description_units.txt".)


    Quote Originally Posted by Tilorius Coilean Hibernus View Post
    I've just updated these files for RS 1.6a for anyone who wants them. I made the new ones from a fresh RS 1.6a EDU file because the EDU has undergone a number of changes since 1.5b (stat changes, price changes, etc). I took the stock 1.6a file and adjusted recruitment and upkeep costs accordingly, one for 2x,2x and one for 3x,2x same as TS's original idea.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...5&d=1272429186
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...6&d=1272429186
    Last edited by apple; July 25, 2010 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Congrats and thanks for presenting your modifs.


    BTW, I haven't seen abundance of wealth playing on VeryHard/VeryHard, although I am a starter - in RS.


    My only problem is : effect of ARMOR UPGRADES and EXPERIENCE is far too little on units - in all the major RTW mods, I've seen.


    Could you guide me, how to cope with this tiny modding issue? Is there a good forum or kit for this purpose?
    /I hope, it is also not illicit to amend some stats of RS for personal use./

    Thanx. ave

  3. #3

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I might give it a try, I always end up with too much cash.

    However I am concerned about the efect if would have on gameplay. It could affect the ability of smaller factions to survive early on in the game, as well as putting the Seleucid empire in the worst position possible.

  4. #4

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSlayer View Post
    I might give it a try, I always end up with too much cash.

    However I am concerned about the efect if would have on gameplay. It could affect the ability of smaller factions to survive early on in the game, as well as putting the Seleucid empire in the worst position possible.
    I see your concern. I am still exploring how it affects AI expansion and survival into the later game. Since unit costs are increased for all factions, however, the effect should be similar for all factions.

    One thing I'm playing around with is adding a tax bonus of around 25% for all non-player factions (you can't do this automatically, it has to be done by editing the EDB) to give the AI an income bonus over the player.

  5. #5
    Mulattothrasher's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I'm interested in this, Savage. Let us know how the late game works.

    I play 1 turn (when I have the rare time to play) and I have never won in 0 turn due to the sheer amount of battles per turn I would face by the middle of the game. It sorta became tedious, for me at least, to continue playing after that. If your EDU resolves this I will try out the 0 turn game for sure

  6. #6

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    After testing with 3x/2x costs, I tried 2x/2x and decided that it worked better. The 3x recruit cost seemed to discourage the AI from recruiting many units, but I think the 2x/2x achieves the right balance for the both AI military production and the player's economy. Still testing into the late game, but so far it's worked pretty well in the early and mid game.

  7. #7

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I agree. I find there are too many stacks and too much many later on. I'd like to try your x2 costs. Do you have a 1.5c version. I just installed the new version. Thanks.

  8. #8

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Quote Originally Posted by dfeal View Post
    I agree. I find there are too many stacks and too much many later on. I'd like to try your x2 costs. Do you have a 1.5c version. I just installed the new version. Thanks.
    Not yet. Just got a new computer and haven't played RS since. Based on the description of updates to 1.5c, though, there may not have been any changes to the EDU. In this case my file should work fine.

  9. #9
    Gerald The Herald's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Hmm, might try it.
    I personally find the financial situation as Germania to be quite reasonable in that I have just ENOUGH cash to spend. Then again, I'm playing as a 'Barbarian' faction so I might try it out on my Macedonian campaign, see how it works.

    @ Savage : I understand the "stack-spamming' problem with the enemy AI in the later stage of the game,especially with '0' turn recruitment, but I must disagree on having too much money as Rome in the early half of the game. I've heard that money's SUPPOSED to be in abundance in your home territories whilst your income will drop dramaticly once you start to expand.
    Just my 2 cents.

    Your friendly neighbourhood herald.


    No change in the balance of political parties can alter the general determination that no class should be excluded from contributing to and sharing responsibility for the state. - Gustav Stresemann





  10. #10

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I can attest to that fact about your income dropping as you expand. In my Roman campaign income was great until I started expanding into Gaul and Spain. I started recruiting legions and conquering new cities, yet with those new cities comes new territory that I have to upgrade with expensive temples and expensive troop garrisons. I am now running on a negative profit almost every turn, and only make a profit of about 25,000 as opposed to the 50,000+ before. It's very difficult, for me at least, to keep an empire running with that sort of money.

  11. #11

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Elodman View Post
    Congrats and thanks for presenting your modifs.


    BTW, I haven't seen abundance of wealth playing on VeryHard/VeryHard, although I am a starter - in RS.


    My only problem is : effect of ARMOR UPGRADES and EXPERIENCE is far too little on units - in all the major RTW mods, I've seen.


    Could you guide me, how to cope with this tiny modding issue? Is there a good forum or kit for this purpose?
    /I hope, it is also not illicit to amend some stats of RS for personal use./

    Thanx. ave
    The armor upgrades is because RS units have stats like 60 .. So that +1 bonus from armor doesn't help alot

  12. #12

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I tried this and here's my opinion about this sub mod: Very Challenging. I love the idea of playing the battles on Hard or very hard with this sub mod and every battle would count and be so important and crucial (which btw is what makes mods good mods) because fighting 5 battles per turn and not gaining any ground....gets boring to anyone, so hurray there.

    The problem with the mod is that its not balanced at all when it comes to your own faction.... Maybe we should play it in a different difficulty setting? because I couldnt build a single building...and barely had 2 legions at the beginning of the campaign (a single legion defending the north from brigands)

  13. #13

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    It's hard enough starting the game as the Seleucids with 5 enemies around you and no money to sustain anymore than 2 stacks while still upgrading cities. Surely this mod just kills any chance for this faction to survive?

  14. #14

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    @TheSavage : Why don't you adapt this mod to RS 1.5c? Maybe the EDU for 1.5c could be uploaded along with the others?

    Now, my personal opinion on this unofficial mod. I've been waiting for some time, (while monitoring the progress of RS 2.0, which my computer will probably refuse to let me play to it's full potential) a mod that changes the most annoying thing in RS 1.5 - the vast amount of enemy stacks in the late game. I see this is an attempt towards this direction, so I'm willing to try it, only if it were for RS 1.5c. It may create some balance issues, just as the above post pointed out, but it is also slightly more realistic - even great empires had difficulty training and maintaining a large armed force - except Rome, of course. Maybe the costs should stay the same, but the maintenance - 2x? Or increase maintenance just enough, not double it? Experimenting will do the trick

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian_Mossop View Post
    It's hard enough starting the game as the Seleucids with 5 enemies around you and no money to sustain anymore than 2 stacks while still upgrading cities. Surely this mod just kills any chance for this faction to survive?
    Well keep in mind that the AI is subject to the same increased costs. So even though you will be able to afford far fewer troops, the AI will also have far fewer troops. It's not really giving an advantage to the AI or the player. It's simply reducing the number of units (and stacks) that can be recruited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius-Augustus View Post
    @TheSavage : Why don't you adapt this mod to RS 1.5c? Maybe the EDU for 1.5c could be uploaded along with the others?
    When I start playing RS again I will definitely do something similar and keep adapting in this direction... I haven't played RS since 1.5c and just got a new computer and don't even have RS installed on it.

    If somebody wants to upload the EDU for 1.5c I'll try to modify it and upload when I have a chance. Or if somebody else wants to do something similar, be my guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius-Augustus View Post
    Maybe the costs should stay the same, but the maintenance - 2x?
    I thought about this, but the problem is that the AI seems to base its recruitment decisions primarily on the recruit cost... it doesn't really factor in the maintenance as much (if at all). So it can definitely change the balance to increase maintenance but not the recruit cost.

    Also, increasing the recruit cost as well allows you to solve some of the problems with 0-turn recruitment while still keeping the main benefits. The nice thing about 0-turn is that it makes up for the AI's lack of ability to plan many turns in advance by allowing it to field troops quickly. But when troops are so cheap, this means the AI can recruit 9 units in every city every turn, leading to endless stacks. By increasing the cost of the units, it still allows the AI (and the player) to recruit units quickly, but it's more costly... Ideally, if the AI is losing major battles every turn, then it will eventually lead to financial problems that prevent it from continuing to stack spam... That was my logic anyways.

    If you think about it, a legion should not be cheap to recruit. Raising a legion or multiple legions was a major expenditure that was done in anticipation of major campaigns. Recruiting 4 legions in a single turn should be a major expense... If you turn around and lose those legions, you shouldn't be able to afford to turn around and recruit another 4 immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by RS Fanboy View Post
    I tried this and here's my opinion about this sub mod: Very Challenging. I love the idea of playing the battles on Hard or very hard with this sub mod and every battle would count and be so important and crucial (which btw is what makes mods good mods) because fighting 5 battles per turn and not gaining any ground....gets boring to anyone, so hurray there.
    Some people apparently like fighting many huge battles every turn, but I don't, so I'm happy to hear that you experienced the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RS Fanboy View Post
    The problem with the mod is that its not balanced at all when it comes to your own faction.... Maybe we should play it in a different difficulty setting? because I couldnt build a single building...and barely had 2 legions at the beginning of the campaign (a single legion defending the north from brigands)
    I guess this just depends on how you play and how many legions you feel are necessary. Personally, I like the fact that you feel somewhat stretched even when playing as Rome... and that you can't afford to send a huge invasion force away to invade but still keep multiple legions on the border. But that's just me.

    As for the building, I was still able to develop somewhat well, but it's true that it can be difficult (sometimes impossible) to be building non-stop in every city. Personally, I like this... it forces you to prioritize and make strategic decisions. War is expensive, and it's realistic that you can fight a major war, launch major building projects at home, but sometimes not do both at the same time.

    Please use the edit button.
    /Maxim Victor
    Last edited by apple; December 28, 2008 at 03:47 AM. Reason: Tripel posting

  16. #16

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Good job....but if you play on the hardest dificulty in the campaing map and battle.......without your mod .....is really hard....Trust me.....and enoyng

  17. #17

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Can any of you report on the type of troops the AI produces? Does it make balanced armies with some elite units, some regular "levy", skirmishers + cavalry? Or does it recruit only the cheapest units en masse or only the best ?

  18. #18

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskandar View Post
    Can any of you report on the type of troops the AI produces? Does it make balanced armies with some elite units, some regular "levy", skirmishers + cavalry? Or does it recruit only the cheapest units en masse or only the best ?

    Well...as I noticed...The AI is unforseeable :hmmm:.When you first clash with it he seems to have balanced experienced troops (silver bars) and many cavalry.As you win against it he seems to "work" with improvisations (mercs) and "scraps" of cohorts (sometimes many ..cohorts of two people ).He barely use archers , though he has some skirmishers always.The onagers are very very rare seen in its ranks.He does very rarely field manoeuvres, and he flies or charge after you decimate its army with onagers.Sometimes , very rarely, he flies in the first second, if you got a very good general (8-9 stars) and 90% experienced troops(silver bars).
    All of these happens on H/H settings.
    Last edited by Flavius Maccus Opium; January 19, 2009 at 05:29 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    I've been using this too, its worked well for me. But i have got beyond 530 AUC in any of my games yet, so We'll have to wait and see.
    Para Todos Todo, Para Nosotros Nada. - Subcommandante Marcos
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. - Mark Twain

  20. #20

    Default Re: My EDU - 3x Costs, 2x Maintenance for Units

    In my experience it seems to produce the same types of units in the same proportions... just fewer.

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