Citys instead watch towers!

[Monthy]

Hi,

I start my experience with TW from RTW some time ago. After a few campanies i was try an incredible awsom mod - XGM:

home page:
http://homepage.mac.com/abradbury/XGM/index.html
readme:
http://www.wmwiki.com/hosted/xgm/xgmreadme.html

In this mod instead watch towers generals can build citys! It's of course only icon on the map but it's look wery good. It's simulate colonization of new conquered lands. Perhaps this new "citys" could give som extra incom?

And second thing, do You consider to mark on the map most importand trade routes like silk rout or amber rout? That will give also extra incom bonus.

[The Englishman]

Constructable cities? That's interesting indeed.

[Walkman810i]

In this mod instead watch towers generals can build citys! It's of course only icon on the map but it's look wery good. It's simulate colonization of new conquered lands. Perhaps this new "citys" could give som extra income

I've played XGM few months ago too but I do not recall that the citys gave any additional income or any other kind of bonuses (edit: yeah you are right, it's only a picture that does the same as watch tower). I am not sure if it can be represented like that with the MTW engine.

About the special trade routes.... that's a good idea

[Hengest]

Yeah if you read the stuff in our preview we have mentioned that Agriculture vs Urbanisation is a feature of the techt ree. In Urbanisation you can develip your region with assets or resources that work in the same way as farmland changes the loom of the landscape, or how trade resources are marked on the map. The symbols will add growth, tax and other economic benefits to your region.
We also mentioned that the silk routes will be on the map.

[Basileos]

Yeah if you read the stuff in our preview we have mentioned that Agriculture vs Urbanisation is a feature of the techt ree. In Urbanisation you can develip your region with assets or resources that work in the same way as farmland changes the loom of the landscape, or how trade resources are marked on the map. The symbols will add growth, tax and other economic benefits to your region.
We also mentioned that the silk routes will be on the map.

One of the systems of DotS on wich i'm very proud of.

I will give you an example of my specific research faction, the moors.

Say you have conquered Murcia in Spain with the the al-Murabitun. Murcia region has nice silk resources and fertile lands. Cordoba, like Zaragoza and Toledo, are "cultural cities", so it won't be bad to make Murcia a "Agricultural city". you might want to build some buildings representing fields with fruit. If you have developed your city further, you can build the "Qanat" building.A "Qanat" is some sort of Arabic and/or Andalusian sort of Aquaduct. So you need a qanat/ aquaduct in order to construct the "irrigation" building, and it will be this building that will generate much income and population growth and maybe even trade for your settlement.

Around 1145, the second taifa period in spain has begun. but in 1160, almost all islamic provinces has been conquered by the Al-muwahidun (almohads). Historicaly, theyt moved their capital from Marrakesh to Sevilla. So as the player, you might chose to make Sevilla a "Cultural city". After you have developed your city a bit, you have the option to build "islamic schools","madrasas" and "translation schools", wich might provide happiness and income to the city and might give some titles and ancilliaries to the generals in that city. You will again be able to build the "Qanat", but this time not for building "irrigation", this time you need the aquaduct for providing water to the "hammam" (arabic bathhouse) building.Also cultural cities will be more able to build larger mosques than in agricultural cities.

[Basil 11]

One of the systems of DotS on wich i'm very proud of.

I will give you an example of my specific research faction, the moors.

Say you have conquered Murcia in Spain with the the al-Murabitun. Murcia region has nice silk resources and fertile lands. Cordoba, like Zaragoza and Toledo, are "cultural cities", so it won't be bad to make Murcia a "Agricultural city". you might want to build some buildings representing fields with fruit. If you have developed your city further, you can build the "Qanat" building.A "Qanat" is some sort of Arabic and/or Andalusian sort of Aquaduct. So you need a qanat/ aquaduct in order to construct the "irrigation" building, and it will be this building that will generate much income and population growth and maybe even trade for your settlement.

Around 1145, the second taifa period in spain has begun. but in 1160, almost all islamic provinces has been conquered by the Al-muwahidun (almohads). Historicaly, theyt moved their capital from Marrakesh to Sevilla. So as the player, you might chose to make Sevilla a "Cultural city". After you have developed your city a bit, you have the option to build "islamic schools","madrasas" and "translation schools", wich might provide happiness and income to the city and might give some titles and ancilliaries to the generals in that city. You will again be able to build the "Qanat", but this time not for building "irrigation", this time you need the aquaduct for providing water to the "hammam" (arabic bathhouse) building.Also cultural cities will be more able to build larger mosques than in agricultural cities.

woop!
I really cannot wait to play as the Moors, actually...

[Basileos]

woop!
I really cannot wait to play as the Moors, actually...

It does not sound bad huh?

[Basil 11]

It does not sound bad huh?

no lol
I am actually planning to make Cordoba my capital instead of Sevilla when I conquer al Andalus, but, just out of interest, which city had a higher population in 1080 (as I realise that Cordoba's golden age has passed by 1080)? :hmmm:

[Basileos]

Well, ofcourse Cordova had the highest population as one of the bigest city of Europe with some 250000 citizens at it's hight (10th-11th century). Around the 12th century the might of Cordova was in decline. There are no numbers known, so i estimate the population some 100000-200000 people.The capital of the Almoravids even after they conquered Al-Andalus was Marrakesh. But when the Almohads conquered Al-Andalus, they choosed Sevilla as their capital, instead of Cordova.Cordova had i think a higher population than Sevilla in 1170, but i can't say that certainly as there are no population numbers known.

[Basil 11]

Well, ofcourse Cordova had the highest population as one of the bigest city of Europe with some 250000 citizens at it's hight (10th-11th century). Around the 12th century the might of Cordova was in decline. There are no numbers known, so i estimate the population some 100000-200000 people.The capital of the Almoravids even after they conquered Al-Andalus was Marrakesh. But when the Almohads conquered Al-Andalus, they choosed Sevilla as their capital, instead of Cordova.Cordova had i think a higher population than Sevilla in 1170, but i can't say that certainly as there are no population numbers known.

100000 - 200000?
wow - I never new it was bigger than Constantinople, actually...
And, again, thankyou for informing me with a wealth of historical knowledge!

[Stephan]

i always thought baghdad was the biggest city i read somewhere it had more than 1 million inhabitants

[Basil 11]

i always thought baghdad was the biggest city i read somewhere it had more than 1 million inhabitants

I doubt it had more than 1 million - especially by 1080, but it may have had in the Golden Age of the Caliphate... :hmmm:
Meanwhile, I am not sure on this - Basileos or Coppernickers could definitely give you a much better answer than me...

[Giorgios]

100000 - 200000?
wow - I never new it was bigger than Constantinople, actually...
And, again, thankyou for informing me with a wealth of historical knowledge!

I'm pretty sure it was smaller than Constantinople... didn't twelfth century Constantinople have a population of about half a million?

[spanish_emperor]

Baghdad had a higher population than Constantinople sometimes and sometimes Constantinople had a bigger population (this includes after 1080). It depended on the time frame.Of course after the mongols destroyed the city this changed.

[Brammius]

I read that on it's heigth Constantinople had 300000 inhabitants but that was way before the timeframe. And Basileos said that Cordoba was once the most populated city in Europe, so saying Bagdad had more can be right, but it isn't a city in Europe .

[Giorgios]

I read that on it's heigth Constantinople had 300000 inhabitants but that was way before the timeframe. And Basileos said that Cordoba was once the most populated city in Europe, so saying Bagdad had more can be right, but it isn't a city in Europe .

I think, though I could be wrong, that Constantinople's population was massively swelled in the late eleventh and early twelfth centuries by floods of Orthodox Christians fleeing the Turkish and Pecheneg invasions of Imperial territory, producing a the highest population seen in the city since before the plague of 542, of between four and five hundred thousand.

[helmersen]

Now thats a lot of peeps!

[Basil 11]

I'm pretty sure it was smaller than Constantinople... didn't twelfth century Constantinople have a population of about half a million?

I would have thought 500,000 was a bit exagerated... :hmmm:

Now thats a lot of peeps!

You are certainly right there, whatever the exact figures!

[Basileos]

I think, though I could be wrong, that Constantinople's population was massively swelled in the late eleventh and early twelfth centuries by floods of Orthodox Christians fleeing the Turkish and Pecheneg invasions of Imperial territory, producing a the highest population seen in the city since before the plague of 542, of between four and five hundred thousand.

It does make some sense what you say, but the 7th and 8th century were also the most darkest of early medieval byzantium. constantinople was besieged 3 times,the balkan was devastated by avar and slav hordes while asia was almost depopulated by the devastation of the byzantine-sassanian wars and the population of the city shrank by plagues,the shortage of food and by the much lower incomes who were caused by the depopulation of most byzantine provinces. it is possible that the population of constantinople has shrunk to 50000-100000 in the 8th century.the state was also almost bankrupt by then.the emperors didn't build any new buildings, but restored them like Basil I massivly did.

Certainly, the riches of Constantinople are a bit exaggerated, especcialy at this time. also byzantium as the conserver of ancient knowledge is also exaggerated.most manuscripts were in the hellenic cities of antioch and Damascus while the ancient manuscripts in the other territories were lost by plundering and wars.those manuscripts were lost after the arab invasion with the value of arab science greatly increased by this.at a certain point science was much more valued by the arabs then by the byzantines.also the library of Alexandria was destroyed with all their texts. byzantine scholarly was also at a very low point at this time, with the ancient system of roman school system and education being much better preserved in the west then in the byzantine east.
but the 8th century was a backpoint. with the famous Leo the mathematician and the patriarch photios old texts were copied and comentaries were written.the education system again revived and the population in the provinces and in the city grew once more.

the fall of constantinople in the 8th-9th century coincided with the rise of cordova.

[Carl Edward]

I just keep getting more and more exciting about this project. I'm completely blown away by the amount of effort being put into this. Very awesome. Keep it up devs!

Sincerely yours,