Singular events that might have changed history

[seraph]

Can we come up with singular events in history that, if something even slightly different had happened, would have changed the entire course of history?

One example would be the battle of Granicus during Alexander's invasion of he Persian Empire. There was no doubt that the Macedonian army would win, since the Persian's Greek mecenaries took almost no part in the battle at all, but during the course of the battle almost every Persian flung themselves at Alexander, hoping to kill him and stop the Macedonian invasion in its infancy. And they almost succeeded, if Cleitus hadn't saved Alexander from getting his head sliced off. There was a very real chance of Cleitus not reacting in time and Alexander been decapitated here, and if Alexander had died all of the subsequent history of the ancient world would have been radically differently. The Macedonians might still attack the Persian empire, but none of Alexander's general had any ambitions beyond perhaps conquering up to Egypt (that is assuming the Macedonian empire would have remained whole and entire). There would have been no Gaugamela, no East-West cultural synthesis, no Macedonian empire, the degree of Hellenistic influence in the East would have been markedly decreased, the West would not have inherited the concept of the 'God King' from the East and perhaps most importantly, Rome would probably have not inherited Hellenistic culture. The entire course of human events would probably have changed beyond recognition.

[Xyston]

Yes I agree. Besides, if Alexander had been killed at the Granicus battle there would surely had been an uprising in greece and the situation would had gone back to something like what it was before the time of Filip II.

I know of one important event. When Jesus had been arrested, the roman governor offered to realese him or another prisoner whose name I can't remember. The people chose the other guy and so Jesus was crusified. What had happened if Jesus had been set free?

[Steeven]

Thermopylae: If it wasn't for the Spartans and allies, the Persians could walk right through Greece without fighting against a full organised army, like the one at Platae.

[Mabus]

Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. This event started WW1. The Bolsheviks don't overthrow czars, no communism. Without the treaty of Versailles (sp), Germany isn't forced into a depression, no WW2. No holocost, thus no state of Israel, thus less unrest in mid east, thus no 9-11. Without WW2, no nuclear weapons, or American superpower. Without US superpower and no communism in Russia, no cold war.

[therussian]

French Revolution. No reign of terror, no Napoleon, no Republic. Maybe a constitutional monarchy, but still a monarchy. One of the biggest events in world history

[imb39]

Originally posted by Mabus@Mar 19 2005, 04:54 PM
Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. This event started WW1. The Bolsheviks don't overthrow czars, no communism. Without the treaty of Versailles (sp), Germany isn't forced into a depression, no WW2. No holocost, thus no state of Israel, thus less unrest in mid east, thus no 9-11. Without WW2, no nuclear weapons, or American superpower. Without US superpower and no communism in Russia, no cold war.

Nah... Austria was gunning for Serbia. True, it was gifted a casus belli (in their eyes) but war was coming.

Personally I would go with the Norman invasion of England (I'm a Brit, go figure...). The fusion of Anglo-Saxon culture with Norman culture has created a marvellous language. The fusion of cultures created the beast that went on to conquor 1/4 of the world's surface. No mean feat for such a small country!

Other crucial events, which have an enormous impact on the modern world would be the American War of Independence, the Punic Wars won by Carthage (no Latin languages). Alas very Eurocentric...

[Ingrimmsch]

If Cartaghe had won the war and wiped out the Roman, i guess we d be praying to some version of Baal and Melquart and Christianity d never be thought of

[imb39]

Originally posted by Ingrimmsch@Mar 19 2005, 06:33 PM
If Cartaghe had won the war and wiped out the Roman, i guess we d be praying to some version of Baal and Melquart and Christianity d never be thought of

Not necessarily. Like Carthage, Rome was polytheistic. It could be argued that if Carthage built up its empire around the Med. then they would eventually have captured Palestine, etal. Given this, then they too could have adopted Christianity eventually.

[Blaven]

Originally posted by imb39@Mar 19 2005, 12:39 PM
Not necessarily. Like Carthage, Rome was polytheistic. It could be argued that if Carthage built up its empire around the Med. then they would eventually have captured Palestine, etal. Given this, then they too could have adopted Christianity eventually.

What he said. The most important thing that would've occured had Carthage conquered Rome would be that the languages of Europe would be radically different: there would be no Romance languages, since Latin would've most likely been confined to Rome and the surronding areas, if not completely extinguished in time. Without the Romance languages, modern English would be much different. There could've possibly been a new, Punic languages group, that would've been descended from Phoenician spoken in Carthage, or perhaps the Iberians, Gauls, and other people that were eventually assimilated by the Romans would've preserved their languages instead.

[imb39]

According to an educationalist, Vygotsky, your mother tongue essentially dictates the way you solve problems. Something I personally believe in, I may add... Anyway, back to the point I wanted to make... Latin languages have dominated the world. They, along with Germanic languages are part of a scientific revolution that took off during the renaissance period. It is possible that this sort of revolution might not have occured at all and scientifically we would not be as 'advanced' as we are now. Witness that China invented both gunpowder and paper yet the real, if you forgive the pun, explosion, seems to have occured in Europe. Latin science, whilst behind the much of the rest of the world in many ways overtook and now is the driving force. If the one thing that the Roman's were brilliant at - it was reverse engineering and adapting ideas. Perhaps this is a valuable side effect of that language... Of course I could be wrong...

[Seleukos]

The Sultan, on his favorite mount and with an iron mace in his hand, placed himself at the head of his proud Janissaries. These 12,000 men were the finest infantry in Europe, perhaps in the world. The trumpets blared and the Janissaries advanced at the double. This time there was no wild rushing attack. As they advanced these superbly disciplined troops maintained perfect ranks.

Mehmed led them right to the edge of the most. As his men passed by he shouted encouragement and promises of rich rewards. He told them that the first man to reach the top of the wall would be given a province and made rich beyond his highest dreams.

The first rank of Janissaries halted just short of the walls and launched against the defenders a deadly hail of arrows and bullets. The second rank jogged through these men to the base of the walls. While some hacked at the planks with axes, others fixed ladders, and still others strained to pull the defenses down. The third rank charged up and began to scale the walls. Each ladder was placed with care and precision so it could not be easily toppled. The Byzantines fought back grimly while behind them church bells commenced a clamorous pealing to Heaven for a miracle to save Constantinople.

Meanwhile at the Blachernal one of those events occurred that can only be listed under Fortunes of War. At the point where the single wall of the suburb joined the triple land wall there was a small sally-port called the Kerkoporta. This had been left open and unguarded by a company of Byzantiness who had sortied against the Turks' left flank. A Turkish soldier saw this and he and some fifty comrades rushed through the gate into a small courtyard. The only exit was up a narrow stairway to the battlements. The Byzantines outside soon realized what had happened and raced back through the gate, barred it behind them and began to fight the trapped Turks. This was a situation that could have been contained if another disaster had not occurred.

Just as the first faint glow of dawn began to lighten the furious scene at the Mesoteichion, Giustiniani was wounded. Historians differ about the details - a shot pierced his breastplate, or an arrow transfixed his gauntlet, or he suffered two heavy blows from a Turkish soldier. Whatever happened there is no doubt this brave, able and utterly exhausted soldier was wounded. It was the final blow that broke his spirit.

Bleeding profusely and in great pain, Giustiniani ordered his bodyguards to help him from the battle. Constantine rushed over and urged his commander not to desert his post. But Giustiniani pleaded he needed medical attention and finally the emperor gave him a key to a nearby gate of the inner Wall. Giustiniani's men opened the gate and carried him into the city. When the Genoese troops realized their commander was leaving, they panicked. Before the gate could be closed and locked behind Giustiniani the Genoese began to crowd through it. Only the Emperor and his Greeks remained at the ramparts.

From across the moat where he still sat upon his mount with mace in hand, Mehmed saw this confusion. To exploit the situation he immediately ordered a reserve orta of Janissaries into the fray. This detachment of some thirty men was commanded by a giant named Hassan.

With his sword in one hand and his small round shield on his arm, the giant ran forward at the head of his men, clambered up a ladder, and in a few moments had hacked his way to the top of the palisade - the first man to achieve this feet. There was a great roar of triumph from the Janissaries below - Hassan had won the coveted Sultan's prize. A dozen of Hassan's men managed to gain the ramparts with him. The Greeks counterattacked, finally managing to topple the giant over the wall. On the ground below Hassan groggily rose to one knee as half a dozen arrows thudded into his body. He fell back dead.

But Hassan had shown the Janissaries that strength and valor could win the day. They attacked the walls with renewed determination. The twelve companions of Hassan still held their ground above. Swiftly more and more Janissaries forced their way up to join them. In a short time the Greeks were outnumbered fifty to one. Stubbornly they gave ground.

Meanwhile Constantine had galloped to the Blachernal. Something there was seriously wrong. From the highest turret overlooking the city fluttered Turkish flags. The Turks trapped in the courtyard had fought their way up to the battlements. Now hundreds of Turks were streaming through the Kerkoporta.

Constantine galloped back for reinforcements, hoping to rally the Genoese. But by now his Greeks had been forced back almost to the still open gate through which Giustiniani had retired. Many panicked Greeks were crowding through the gate. At the same time Janissaries were scaling the face of the Inner Wall. Already some could be seen above on the battlements. They were waving their swords and shouting down to their companions outside, "The city is ours!"

The situation was hopeless. Constantine’s advisors begged him to save himself, but his only comment was, "I will stay with my men". Constantine resolutely tore his royal purple cloak from his shoulders, drew his sword and charged the fray at the gate. There, it must be presumed, he died like a common soldier.

It is believed that in that last fight, Constantine earned a great respect not only from his men, but from the Janissaries as well. Stories, after the battle, were told of the great Roman leader who did not run, but fought with his men and died bravely. It is said the Mehmed was so impressed with this, that only Constantine’s crown was removed from his body and he was given a proper burial. This was not a custom for the Turks, leaders and soldiers usually found themselves nailed to the walls of the city or beheaded and sitting on a tent pole.

If this would not have happened, Constantinople would not have fallen. If Constantinople never fell than the amount of influence and technology brought by the Byzantines would have continued. Thus, changing European and western Asian history.

[SovietDoom]

The battle around Vienna between the Austrians and Turks. If the Turks won and assimilated the artisans, craftsman, and scientists of Austria, they could have done on to a domination of Europe, or at least mantained their hold over the Balkans, and prevented a huge decline.

[Romanos]

to me the most important would have to be if Hitler had never come to power it could have change the world also not to mentchin stop World War 2 of happening also German may have never become again a World power and also saving millions of people of dying. :whistle

[Ó Cathasaigh]

If the Alamo defenders had been captured instead of killed. Perhaps Texas might have remained part of Mexico and the United States would not have annexed it. Thus leading George W. Bush to being President of Mexico.

[qnzkid711]

If Teutoburg Forest ambush did not work(ie Varus not marched into enemy territory completely blind and immobile), Rome would not have stopped it's conquest of Germany. Varus, or some other general, would have gone deeper and deeper and thus possibly altering the Rhine being the border of Romance to Germanic language. Also if the Roman's had conquered far enough the wild Germanic tribes on the north might have been subdued and stopped the future of aggressive Barbarian movement unto Roman territory thus the west would not have been overcome.

[VILenin]

What if Trotsky had taken power in the USSR after Lenin's death and the man of steel was exiled? I think that the USSR would still exist today and most of the world would live under some form of communism. I think that the Nazis would have been defeated more easily if Trotsky would have been our leader. There would have not been any purges of the officer ranks, and we would not have had a professional bureaucrat with practically no military experience trying to direct the war effort. Stalin made some very poor decisions in the war that cost us dearly. And the Nazis might never have even risen to power because Trotsky would have provided more assistance to the German Communists. Imagine if a communist revolution would have succeeded in Germany during the 1930s. The rest of mainland Europe would have become communist, and I don't think the US and UK could haved defeated the USSR and Germany in a war.

[Mehmed II]

What if Trotsky had taken power in the USSR after Lenin's death and the man of steel was exiled? I think that the USSR would still exist today and most of the world would live under some form of communism. I think that the Nazis would have been defeated more easily if Trotsky would have been our leader. There would have not been any purges of the officer ranks, and we would not have had a professional bureaucrat with practically no military experience trying to direct the war effort. Stalin made some very poor decisions in the war that cost us dearly. And the Nazis might never have even risen to power because Trotsky would have provided more assistance to the German Communists. Imagine if a communist revolution would have succeeded in Germany during the 1930s. The rest of mainland Europe would have become communist, and I don't think the US and UK could haved defeated the USSR and Germany in a war.

How do you expect an un industrialized Ussr and Germany to win a war against the Us and Uk? I'd say it's Stalinism that has saved Ussr's butt.

[EmperorUnderdog]

Skip to "SUMMARY" at the end if you are pressed for time, its only a few sentences... if you have time, read the whole thing for an explanation if you disagree strongly.

All these answer are really good, but, although the Alamo is an important event, we would have annexed Texas by the 20th centuryat the latest. I guess I'm forced to go far back, because later events had their roots in those before them. i.e., the Borman Invasion ultimately winds up creating 20th century events. The French, English rivalry that develops in the Middle Ages, the eventual ris of Napoleon affecting the world on a global scale as we were in the very earliest stages of the Industrial Revolution, the alliances before, during and after the defeat of Napoleon and the need for countries facing assimilation by France, i.e Germany, gave rise to the concept of Nationalism; a people unified by common language, history and borders. The last time history had seen any form of Nationalism, but it was flawed in many ways... sure Latin became the common language, by everyone couldn't read and write etc. Also, Rome's population was comprised of almost as many slaves as citizens, maybe more (figures are inconsistent)... you get the idea... one could arguably say when man used to fashion stone tools, or the discovery of fire... so I'll stay in the context of written History. I guess I have two events, and one of the is a split decision. I think, before you can look at events, yo have to strip everything to the bone and see the lowest common denominator in all eents and move forward. Man needs food, shelter and clothing to survive... and all his action are primarily based on these 3 things... including the need to produce offspring.

The first, for so many obvious and non-obvious reasons is the death of Jesus Christ. Why? Having had a great influence before his death, that grew exponentially upon his recorded death as a martyr (he may or may not have died... but that is irrelevant). His death and his teachings gave the people under the foot of Rome a hope of something better, in this world or the next. ALthough the debate exact combination of events forming the catalyst for his decision are disputed (opportunist, divine vision to put the cross on his armie's shield before the battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312 AD...etc.), when he came to power, he first stopped the mass persecution of Chritsians that had gone on since 70 AD when they took Jerusalem, and then shortly before his death, legalized Christianity and made it the State Religion of Rome. Primarily, Constantine as other after him in the middle ages saw the great benefit christianity could be to rule one's kingdom or empire... cutting to the chase... Christianity did unite and strengthen Rome, but then became her downfall... I feel Christianity took a lot of power away from the Emperors that they had without it... Rome falls as a result... the empire scattered into many shards, Christianity brings Europe together again and solidifies once more under Charlemagne, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, which originally set out to succeed where Rome had failed and unite the world under the H.R.E.... but we know that never happened either. What does happen? Islam becomes the next great religion, built like Christianity, upon Judaism, and Christianity with a twist of Allah thrown in... voila. The church becomes the core, the blood that keeps Europe together and eventually control and dominates her, keeping people in darkness fro science. Christianity also saved all knowledge of the past 1000 plus years that would have been lost under the torch of the Viking hordes... eventually, civilization is preserved by Christianity... the greatest irony ever because Christianity destroyed civilization first TheEuropean kings now maintain control and order under the Feudal Sysem dictated at its core, by the church. The king is king because God wills it... the divine right of kings... this first Crusades of Jerusalem affect the future in so many ways, the conflict of East against West, Islam against christianity is born... ultimately, the world would be a safer place had it not been for the crusades, wich was, essentially at it's heart, an event motivated by the greed of the Vatican to control the Silk Trade, producing wealth to finance the spread and control of Christianity over the world. "God Wills It" was their motto under Pope Urban II and those three words eventually kill more people than anything else in history, and continues to do so today. The birth of Christ, who came as the Bible says to "save the world from sin and damnation" (not verbatim) and ironically causes more sin than anything else because those ideas become corrupted by greed and power. Jesus to Christiany to Feudalism to Holy Wars... As a result of war, under Jesus, twisted by twisted minds, weaponry and warfare grow exponentially. ALthough there are some ancient examples of the weapons I'm about to name in China and Rome... the Middle Ages produces the crossbow. This weapon is an evolutionary leap forward in warfare that is metaphorically the single celled orgainism that one day becomes the atomic bomb. The crossbow, made popular bu European warfare changes war forever. In the beginning, the bow was still a better weapon, but the concept of a crossbow is what matters most... unskilled or hardly skilled peasants, for a fraction of the price can now kill opponents worth much more gold and possessing of much greater skill. The concept of cheap soldier killing better soldiers from a distance. This is the birth of mechanized warfare. Science and technology combined to mete out efficient and cost effective death.... that evolve again by applying gunpowder to the concept of the croosbow's trigger mechanism. The rest yo all know I'm sure.

The second greatest event, the one that counters the stranglehold of the church on civilization is twofold. The printing press and the subsequent Enlightenment. I'll stick with invention here and say printing press, built in Germany in 1450 by Johannes Gutenberg. Ultimately this invention becomes the great equalizer of class struggle. This invention gradually makes knowledge cheaper to copy and disseminate. Also it makes it much more accessible to all classes (eventually) and is cheaper. Knowledge is the greatest defense the mind has against oppression. We are communicting on this message board, although far removed and compunded with other inventions, thanks to the printing press. While knowledge also eventually spawns through a chain of many events, Nazi Germany, more good has been done from knowledge than bad. ANd also, Nazi Germany is coming from the other side, religion and the church. Essentially if you follow Nazi Germany to its roots, it stems from the birth of Christ, twisted ad infinitum to become its complete opposite.


SUMMARY

2 events that had the most profound effects on history:

1 (Negative) The death of Jesus Christ (because of man's eventual total corruption of the teachings of arguably, history's most influential and benevolent man, leads to have the greatest net negative impact upon history).

2 (Positive) The invention of the Printing Press. (empowers man to equalize the oppression stemming from #1, Jesus' Death) The roots of modern knowledge. Knowledge is civilization's great equalizer against oppression, corruption and control.

thanx for your valuable time reading this guys, what do you think?

[GeneraL_ScienCe]

Originally posted by Corporal_Hicks@Mar 19 2005, 08:32 PM
If the Alamo defenders had been captured instead of killed. Perhaps Texas might have remained part of Mexico and the United States would not have annexed it. Thus leading George W. Bush to being President of Mexico.

LOL :lol

I vote for this one.

-ScienCe!

[dgoodman]

The history series "What If?" is full of these counterfactuals and is written by some of the top historians. Check them out if this type of historical thinking is your thing.

With that said, the Assyrian seigw of Jerusalem and the diesease that stopped it from suceeding, was probably the most important event in terms of it's impact. Many scholars think that at that time, around 750BC, the Jewish faith was not nearly devealoped fully. If Jerusalem was taken, the Jews would not have been able to develop Judaism into a truely monothiestic religion and would not have been around to influence Christianity or Islam. The world would be totally different.