Notes after playing...

**Kiba1177** · November 06, 2008, 06:03 PM

I've tried most factions (Martell, Greyjoy, Tully, Stannis, Stark, Lannister, Joffrey, Arryn) and all I can say is that this mod is -amazing-. I've only completed two campaigns (Greyjoy and Stannis) but then again, only had it two days. However, I've come across a few things here and there, I think some may be on purpose, or just because this is a beta but I'm not sure. I'm just including them to help, I still love this mod and they are hardly game wreaking. A note, I have the patch and the text thing.

1. Princesses - Were they removed on purpose? I haven't encountered any, nor seen any emerge when girls become of age. Women are still married of course, but I haven't been able to do any "marry faction heir to princess" type things, which was always fun in the vanilla - though I understand why they might not be in.

2. Alliances - A lot of people say that they are strong and stay, so it could be on my part though I can't think of ANYTHING that would alter this from what its set to. Unlike what its said, I've seen the alliances break a LOT.
On my Greyjoy campaign, I was aligned with Joffrey and with the Lannisters, and I was fighting the Tully's head on. I was of course, also in a war with the Starks.After capturing Riverrun, (killing Marq Piper), and slaying the Blackfish in a battle they offered me a ceasefire, and for 6400 dragons I accepted. I then took on an alliance, as I hardly had the firepower to take them on right now. However, the Stark's were mad, and cancelled there alliance with the Tully's.

Another time, was when I was the Martell's, aligned with both Renly and the Tyrell's (and stannis, but that hardly matters) I engaged in a war with the Tyrell's and Renly broke his alliance. I've only seen Joffrey and the Lannister's break once, but the Tyrell/Renly, and the Tully/Renly are very weak to me, and break a lot.

3. Detailed Battle - Often when I win a battle, I'll go into detailed view and the game will crash. Just a note, never occured in Vanilla.

4. Lannister - When Kevan died in battle against the Greyjoy's, Jaime became heir. I don't know if theres a way to fix this, or if its just the game engine but I just thought you might want to know.

I'm sorry if these seem like complaints, I love the game and am just trying to help out. Thanks!

**Kiba1177** · November 07, 2008, 03:23 PM

Another rather irritating bug, my recent file (On turn 67 I believe, if not more) I saved, Stannis campaign if it matters. When I try to load it, it goes to one of the pictures, with the quote at the bottom then shifts to another screen blank without a quote - then the game reaches an unspecified error and exits.

**stormbringer951** · November 08, 2008, 03:45 AM

Can you send us the error log?

**Kiba1177** · November 10, 2008, 01:26 AM

There was none. Im using 1.2 if that matters, but my computer at least, gave no option to view details. It was totally bizzare, I'd load and you'd see one of the (awesome!) pictures with a normal quote, then out of no where another picture would come up (quoteless) load about one second, then crash. The autosave (-exactly- the same thing, same minute and everything) was fine much to my relief. The save name was "St" if that has any relevance. Sorry I couldnt get the log.

**Unbowed** · November 22, 2008, 05:17 PM

Well, after loitering on the forum for about a month (hey, you guys are so intimidating, with your almighty modding prowess) and having played the game to almost exhaustion for about a week, I thought I might as well finally pitch in my suggestions. Seeing no point in creating another thread for these, I just hi-jacked this one; community spirit and all.

1. A big factor that limited my playtime with the Stannis faction was the shadow spawn ability. Yeah I know he's the weakest faction (even though a fast expansion can basically neutralize that), but the ability to slaughter almost anything on the map every turn is a little too unnervingly easy; too far in the murky realms of unbalancing the game into the players hands. Maybe limiting their accessibility (I’m sure even melisandre would struggle to pump out that many shadow children at that rate), although I do agree with their potency. I just feel it's a power that can be too easily abused during moments of weakness (i.e wanting to smash Medieval's ai into the dirt repeatedly)

2. Tyrion Lannister. Those words suddenly bring to mind a manipulative fiend, with at least a shred of decency, and most of all, courage. Yet, he is an utterly terrible general in the game, seeming to compare him with the foulness that is Janos Slynt. He by no means has to be a mighty general, but a few more administrative traits can't surely go amiss?

3. The Starks position is far too separated from the main action zones, except perhaps the riverlands, which is in no way a close neighbour to the North. I quickly grew tired of claiming rebel settlements, and being completely safe due to the buffer that is the Tulleys, and with me not wishing to attack them, my campaigns quickly became futile and almost tedious. In my opinion, the North needs more competition; unfortunately a problem that cannot be easily solved. The addition of the Freys that has been suggested is reasonable, and would be a diverse power to play in the struggles of westeros, but still too detached from the Starks. Perhaps making the Boltons a separate, or maybe emergent faction could spice up the North for the player. The current solution of making the Dreadfort a rebel settlement is no where near as satisfying as having the Bastard himself come crashing down upon Winterfell with all his insane glory. That idea also being far more canonical

.

4. Now, I know it is in no way accurate, but I also believe that every faction should be able to claim the kingship, though perhaps limiting it with the factions mainly swearing fealty to others. House Martell should definitely have this option, as they are not exactly loyal to any cause at the start of the war, and a Dornish king does seem exquisite.

Well I believe that is it now, but I’m sure more ideas will come to me sooner or later. Do not take the idea that I’m requesting these changes to be made for the first release, as that would hardly seem fair, but perhaps for later releases, when the team has more experience and the game has more options.

By the way, thanks for making an awesome mod, slaughtering that fool Robb with King Theon and a pack of raging Iron Men made my day.

(phew that was long for a first post)

**DaedalusV2.0** · November 22, 2008, 11:53 PM

Eh, I have a few answers,
1: Hmm... I've not noticed Stannis getting too many Shadowbabies, and I thought we had some really, really nasty traits programmed in in the event of overuse... If you got lots of them and didn't notice Stannis turning into an utter failure of a leader, you must have been very, very lucky that game or you've experienced a bug.
2:We know, we know! Tyrion is one of quite a few generals who's stats are not completed, along with pretty much the whole Arryn faction and a few people down in Dorne. In future versions, expect Tyrion to be a very able administrator with popularity issues

3:So don't hang around in the north like that! Go burn down the Iron Islands and kill off the Lannisters. Also, you have a military access treaty with the Tullies for a reason- help them out for goodness' sake! Hanging around the North is as boring and silly as it would have been in the books.
4: We've pretty much just given it to the factions that had kings in the novels. That said, I agree with you! Martell and Arryn should have the option too, though I'd argue against it for the Tullies, Tyrells and Lannisters who are already beholden to kings.

Thanks for the praise! No doubt my wonderous amazingly attention-grabbing flavour text helped contribute to your enjoyment. Now then, to stop slacking off and write that essay...

**Unbowed** · November 23, 2008, 07:11 AM

Hmm, when i was experimenting with Stannis, I basically managed to wipe out both Joffery and Renly's factions, without gaining any negative traits. I don't know if this is based just on my one game, if so, then I'm sorry for brining it up.

As for the North, well I did do that eventually, it's just no army ever ventures into the North from other factions. My point was that having some competition up there might make the Stark game more challenging. Sweeping down in bloody swathes without retribution is one of the ways I don't like to play the game.

I wasn't aware of the unfinished traits, so I apologise, and I was beginning to wonder why a few generals seemed so poor in the game. Joffery might get a few more plays in game now that evil dwarf is going to get spruced up.

And finally, thanks for agreeing with me.

(Oh yeah, and can you only claim Kingship with your original faction leader? I don't know if this is just me, but during a few games with the Iron Islands, with Balon dead, and a far greater general in Euron leading, the kingship was never offered to him.)

**stormbringer951** · November 23, 2008, 08:05 AM

1. Stannis negative traits aren't in yet. Aeoleron didn't get round to coding them AFAIK.

2. Many characters are completely incomplete.

3. Greyjoys will be coded to attack with naval invasions a bit more. And we need Lusted's BAI and the updated CAI, if we haven't got them. I'm not sure....

4. Agrees with Daedalus. Those beginning allied with kings will get no option, I'm afraid. Sorry.

**Unbowed** · November 23, 2008, 11:15 AM

1. That would probably explain it, thanks for the heads up.

2. Hmm, I used to mod quite often, but I haven't regularly for about a year and a half now. If you wish, in the near future I may offer you some help with the coding i.e. traits and ancillaries; whatever I can do to make the final release day come sooner.

3. The Grejoys becoming a little more aggressive would help a lot I'm sure. But may I ask, in the "hypothetical" future releases, do you intend to add more factions to the fray? By no means am I trying to pressure you, as the current setup is still enjoyable, but maybe it is an option to consider once that first release is up,

4.
I know this mod is based on the War of the 5 Kings, which does entail only 5 kings

, but I currently feel the option should be more open. The total war series is about changing history, and that does include the history of Westeros. Lets say that Joffery's family was eliminated by Stannis in the books (and option that is available in play), why can it not be a possibility for the Lannisters to claim a crown; I do not see Tywin readily bowing to rule under Stannis, when his armies are far superior. Even in the books Mace Tyrell is readying his army to march for Kings Landing, and when he arrives there, I highly doubt he is going to allow Cersei off after her manipulation of the Queen. Renly is already vanquished, why should the Tyrells make do with just a lordship? The Tullies are still rebellious despite their kings’ death, would they really settle for lordships if they had the martial power? I already strongly feel Dorne should have the ability, their loyalties lying with no one, and the Arryns perhaps. Maybe it isn't canon, but realistically, these events are likely to happen. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe limit their use with certain factions. They already have requirements, why not make these factions only have the ability once enemy forces have destroyed their King, or their King declares open war against them. I don't know if that is possible, however I'm sure there are ways around it. I'm still not suggesting them for a first release, but it should be an avenue open for venture. That is my opinion really, and I'll drop it after this post if I receive another firm no, but if your considering the wall and Dany in these hypothetical releases, surely kingships should be provided too.

**stormbringer951** · November 23, 2008, 11:24 AM

2. Freys may be added once we've got version 1.0 out the door.

4. We may need to recode the AI not to apply for kingship if their allies are kings. Also, not to have two kings allied. And not to be allied to two kings at once. This is where I wish that protectorates were done much better.

**Unbowed** · November 23, 2008, 12:02 PM

2. Freys would be a good start, and i'm sure a number of backstabbing, manaical players would rejoice with them (me included), but their are a large number of other factions that in the end, are just as vital to the war. The Bolton's however are just as important. Roose's planning began only a while after the games beginning. The Battle of the Blackwater was his turning point, and that isn't too far off.

4. What is your exact problem with vassels, the weakness of the alliance? Lusted's ai does a lot to fix that. Otherwise, I've never really modded that part of the game, prefering to ride off of some other peoples noble work

.

I'm sorry for peppering you with questions, given the teams current status, and I respect the effort your putting into the mod at the moment.

**stormbringer951** · November 23, 2008, 04:30 PM

Vassals are just badly scripted in TW. Nothing to do with Lusted's. Just the way they've handled it sucks.

**Kiba1177** · November 24, 2008, 01:15 AM

This is a great mod, but it you do bring up good points. However -

1 - If the bloodline of Joffrey was destroyed, the Lannister's would have no basis for kingship. Other factions all have legitimate reasons (or try to) the Stark's bringing back the King in the North, the Greyjoy's are just aiming for the isles, Renly was bloodlined to Robert, as is Stannis, and Joffrey is (thinks at least) the son of Robert. Dorne, I could understand - and the Arryn's were once kings themselves. I do, however, think Tyrell should be able to opt for king. Lannister and Tully is just no, though.

2 - I like the idea of adding in the Frey, but Bolton is just silly. They would get massacred by the North in like, two turns. That, or it would split the North so far that the Starks couldn't expand. In later versions, we may see the dragon queen come in as a Mongol type, and I think it'd be cool to have like, the Others come, if you don't donate to the watch (by the way, do you get anything for donating to them? I've found it a waste now, and never do it)

3 - Could start script Tyrell to hate Joffrey and Stannis, and Tully to hate Greyjoy, Lannister Greyjoy and Stark, and maybe Renly. Would probably stop alliances to the kings?

**Unbowed** · November 24, 2008, 02:08 AM

1. If the Joffery bloodline was lost, Tywin would still not bow to one of the other lords. He would at least try to raise Jaime to the status, through Cersai's queenship, or by force of arms. If you say the Arryns were once kings, and may deserve kingship, all of the major houses in Westeros (almost) descended from kings before the Targaryen invasion, and I'm pretty much certain Lannister honour would provide at least some incentive for Tywin to claim kingship. The Tyrells I do feel strongly about, and Dorne for that matter, but I'm still a little uncertain on the Tullies, they seem a little too passive at times.

2. If the Bastard of the Dreadfort was equipped with a large enough army, mainly horse if we're keeping to the books, he could easily obliterate large parts of the North before Robb's army managed to reach them. This would require an excellent ai system, yet could make the North more of a contest. In almost every game I've played the Starks just sit in the North, quickly taking Flint's Finger, until I personally come and assault them.Maybe this will be resolved with Lusted's ai, I dont know.

3. That might work to begin with, but before long alliances would start to seep through the cracks. Stupid ai never does as it's told.