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Thread: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

  1. #2041

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    Why not? They could create some kinds of "penal battalions" like the Soviets did. Penal battalions are good as "cannon meat". Of course morally I don't support this idea, but it was practical.
    It would be a waste of resources and hands to work in factories not to mention equipment,etc. Maybe in the Soviet army but not the German one. They had a sense of quality btw.



    Come on, China was fighting against Japan and not on European Theatre.
    Yes but you said the 'Axis' before which includes all Axis countries.

    Was there a single Chinese soldier fighting Axis in Europe? No.
    No but there were Mongols, Siberians, etc.

    And Brasilian contribution to Allied victory in WW2 is minimal, virtually none.
    No not true and there are a lot more countries than that. Brazil helped in equipment, patrolling the seas for U-boats and the merchant navy therefore it was a naval and economic contribution. Wow you just contradicted yourself with the above link.

  2. #2042

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Yes but you said the 'Axis' before which includes all Axis countries.

    Ok. I said "the Axis" but I meant Romania, Italy, Hungary, etc. - those who fought on the Eastern Front (also small Slovakian forces).

    Edit:

    And this is another disadvantage of that comparison of losses posted by Guaporense on that forum. On the Soviet side he counts all losses (also suffered against Germany's allies) - on the opposite side he counts only German losses (not entire Axis).

    No but there were Mongols, Siberians, etc.

    They were all citizens of the Soviet Union not citizens of China. Russians were not the only nationality in the USSR.
    Last edited by Domen123; May 24, 2010 at 02:33 PM.

  3. #2043
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    By the end of the war Germany was sending poorly equipped old men and children to frontline units.
    Ever considered that by then Germany was defeated by attrition? The best trained and most fit soldiers were long gone or so few in numbers by then that the army had no other choice. Even then these boys and old men did manage to inflict heavy casualties on the Allies and Soviets...

    Untill the invasion of Russia where Hitler out of the blue decided to massively expand the armed forces, which resulted in a general drop in combat efficientcy per division, the German army was the best fighting force on Earth.
    The only thing that really saved Russia was the thousands of miles her troops could retreat. If not for this major advantage then Moscow before Winter could well have been a reality...
    Last edited by Holger Danske; May 24, 2010 at 05:46 PM.

  4. #2044

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    The only thing that really saved Russia was the thousands of miles her troops could retreat.

    I know. In 1941 Soviet army performed very poorly. Cadre Red Army (cadre, frontline units - I'm not talking about Strategic Reserves and units formed later or transported to the frontline from Siberia) was defeated faster than both the Polish cadre army in 1939 (and Poland had no Strategic Reserves) and the cadre French army in 1940 (France had no Strategic Reserve too). They were practically gone by the mid July of 1941. Defeating the cadre Red Army also cost the Germans less casualties than defeating the French army in 1940 or even the Polish army in 1939. Despite the fact that the cadre Red Army (even without all of those reserves) was much bigger and much stronger than the Polish army in 1939 or even than the French army in 1940.

    The Red Army lost thousands of tanks and thousands of aircrafts during the first days of the German invasion (!).

    What saved Russia were miles to retreat and huge reserves to send to combat.

    And also improvements in terms of quality of command.

    If not for this major advantage then Moscow before Winter could well have been a reality...

    Let's think about it - if Poland surrendered without resistance in 1939 (like Czechoslovakia) or became Hitler's ally (Hitler wanted Poland to join the Anti-Comintern Pact), then Hitler wouldn't have had to divide Poland with Stalin (the pact from August 23rd wouldn't have been necessary).

    And then he would have launched his invasion on Russia from Poland's eastern border - Moscow would have been much closer.

    So Polish decision to resist Hitler (instead of surrendering or becoming his ally) largely contributed to saving Russia.
    Last edited by Domen123; May 24, 2010 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #2045

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    Edit:And this is another disadvantage of that comparison of losses posted by Guaporense on that forum. On the Soviet side he counts all losses (also suffered against Germany's allies) - on the opposite side he counts only German losses (not entire Axis).

    I don't think that Germany's Allied contributed all that much to Soviet losses not to mention many of those nations had soldiers within the German Army like the Slovakian SS so even at that no.


    They were all citizens of the Soviet Union not citizens of China. Russians were not the only nationality in the USSR.
    Obviously what do you think I said and btw Mongolia was a satellite Soviet state not really part of the USSR in a way.

  6. #2046

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    I don't think that Germany's Allied contributed all that much to Soviet losses

    As far as I know they did - at least Soviet losses in combat against them were also bigger than their own losses.

    Losses against Finland are also included in those Soviet figures.

    Here something on losses of Germany's Allies:

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...87012&start=15
    Last edited by Domen123; May 25, 2010 at 12:46 AM.

  7. #2047
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Domen, I think you're forgetting that one Finnish soldier was worth ten Soviet soldiers, and that's a scientific fact.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

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  8. #2048

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by justinius View Post
    I don't think that Germany's Allied contributed all that much to Soviet losses not to mention many of those nations had soldiers within the German Army like the Slovakian SS so even at that no
    Sorry for nitpicking but I can't remember any Slovak SS units being formed unless you meant Slovak forces fighting on the Eastern Front

  9. #2049

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    The Axis army on the Eastern-Front was quite multi-national:

    Russian info on captured POWs:

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...7012&start=165

    The information ı 2

    About captured, freed from a captivity both directed home, and formation of national parts as of February, 1, 1947

    1. IN TOTAL captured it is freed - 1419449
    From:
    a) It is freed and directed home - 1362784
    b) On formation of national parts - 56665

    {note:
    (1. Nationalities
    2. In total
    3. from them it is transferred on formation of national parts
    4. from them it is freed and sent home
    }
    ......(1.)........…………..(2.) ...……… (3.)..... ………… (4.)
    Germans ……………785975………14…………... 785961
    Romanian …………. 96605………..20374………. 74231
    Hungarians………… 216011………21765 ……… 194246
    Italians …………….. 21076..……….- …………… 21076
    Austrians ……………82077..………1…………..... 88076
    Czechoslovaks………62120..………7768………… 54352
    Yugoslavs……………19289 ..……..2484………….16806
    Poles ………………. 55387..………1934…………. 53435
    Spaniards……………72..………….. - …………... . 72
    Dutchs……………… 4230..…………- …………... 4230
    Jews……………….. 3604..………. 1225…………. 2379
    Frenchmen…………. 20961..………1…………..... 20960
    Belgians……………. 1687..………. - ………….....1687
    The Turk…………… 104..………… - ………….....104
    Swisses ……………. 169..………… -…………..... 169
    Swedes…………….. 31..…………. - …………..... 31
    Norwegians………… 63..…………. - …………..... 63
    Englishmen………… 31..…………. - …………..... 31
    Americans…………. 68..…………. - …………..... 68
    Luxembourg……….. 1538..………. - …………..... 1538
    Danes ……………… 361..………… - …………..... 361
    Bulgaria……………. 248..………… 85 …………...163
    Greeks……………… 25..………… - …………..... 25
    ? …………………… 754..………… - …………..... 754
    ? …………………… 2857..………. - …………..... 2857
    Estonians *………….499..………… - …………..... 499
    Brazilians……………3..…………… - …………..... 3
    Latvians *………….. 149..………… - …………..... 149
    Russian *…………..196..………….. - …………..... 196
    Moldavians * ……..2838..………… 7 …………..... 2831
    ? ………………….1865..………… 992 …………..... 873
    Gipsy………………. 54..…………. 4 …………..... 50
    Bukovinians *……..56..………….. - …………..... 56
    Lithuanians * ……… 77..…………. - …………..... 77
    Finns………………. 1963..……….. - …………..... 1963
    bessarabians *…… 38..………….. - …………..... 38
    Albanians………….. ..5..…………. - …………..... 5
    Argentina…………….1..…………. - …………..... 1
    Iran………………….1..…………… - …………..... 1
    Portugueses………… 1..…………… - …………..... 1
    Byelorussians *……..58..………….. - …………..... 58
    Southern - Americans 1..…………… - …………..... 1
    Not deciphered…….. 38301..………. - …………..... 38301

    TOTAL:……………. 1419449…….. 56665 ……… 1362784

    Temporarily acting as chief GUPVI the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR
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  10. #2050

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    11 people actually voted FRANCE?!

    "He who wishes to be the best for his people, must do that which is necessary - and be willing to go to hell for it."

    Let the Preservation, Advancement and Evolution of Mankind be our Greater Good.


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  11. #2051
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Yes they voted France.

    It's about the soldier, not the commanders.

  12. #2052

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    The Axis army on the Eastern-Front was quite multi-national:

    Russian info on captured POWs:

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...7012&start=165
    It is kind of funny that according to those figures Soviet Union was able to capture more Frenchmen then Finns. Domen i thought you could stand by your figures. If that is the case how come these figures give total of 1963 Finns captured, while your figures give 3000 Finnish captured alone in Vyborg–Petrozavodsk Offensive? Or did those captives just disappear? Just to offer you a tip of info. The so biased Finnish sources you like to attack again and again without any real case what so ever, give total of 3 402 Finnish casualties as captured. The explanation between the Soviet figures and Finnish is that the Soviets only counted the prisoners that actually reached the prison camps, which seems wasnt the case with many Finns.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; May 25, 2010 at 05:36 AM.

  13. #2053
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Those Frenchmen, always surrendering all over the place.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

  14. #2054

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    A Polish soldier never surrenders.

    Oh man they're awesome.


  15. #2055

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    As far as I know they did - at least Soviet losses in combat against them were also bigger than their own losses.
    So that just means Soviets suffered a worst ratio but you must know that Axis allies were not all that important in Russian territory especially in the later stages of the war as you imply. Stalingrad minus the Romanians would not have done much and was more of a bad thing for the Germans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janek View Post
    Sorry for nitpicking but I can't remember any Slovak SS units being formed unless you meant Slovak forces fighting on the Eastern Front

    No many Slovaks volunteered in the SS like the Hlinka Guard and the Freiwillige Schutzstaffel for example.

  16. #2056
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Actually justinius, take away the Axis satellite armies, and the whole Stalingrad campaign would have been impossible. Read my article in my signature, Hitler assigned Allied armies to hold the flanks.

  17. #2057

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysimachus View Post
    Actually justinius, take away the Axis satellite armies, and the whole Stalingrad campaign would have been impossible. Read my article in my signature, Hitler assigned Allied armies to hold the flanks.

    Yeah but we're talking about their martial prowess against Russia and as you can see the Soviets destroyed them and overall they did not fight well unless you are talking about the Azul division,etc. which is what Domen is implying (that they fought well and contributed a lot to Soviet losses)


    Btw I knew they were holding the flanks that's why I brought them and Stalingrad up and the reason they were holding the flanks was that were deemed of questionable quality which Domen opposes.

  18. #2058
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    So who were the best soldier of WW2?

  19. #2059
    ♔hammeredalways♔'s Avatar Darthmod Moderator
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    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    as I have said previously I think it is impossible to make such a wide, and sweeping statement with any real degree of realism or conviction, if the question related to specific fighting units it would probably be possible.

    I think the non German axis units were ill equipped and trained to fight the battles that raged around them once the Russian counter-attack was launched is probably a better description than questionable quality.

    There are several Slovaks with the Knights Cross and I am unaware of Slovak SS formations, there were of course Slovaks fighting in the Waffen SS which is a different statement.

    Let us also not forget the last, and fanatical defenders of the Bunker were SS Charlemagne, French chaps
    Knight of the binge-drinking-Kebab-shop-vomiting-taxi rank-punch-up? 32nd degree

  20. #2060

    Default Re: Who were the best soldier of ww2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔hammeredalways♔ View Post
    There are several Slovaks with the Knights Cross and I am unaware of Slovak SS formations, there were of course Slovaks fighting in the Waffen SS which is a different statement.
    How is the Waffen SS not an SS formation? Waffen means armed SS so fighting SS.

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