GRAND PREVIEW

[Henry X]

Guess so

[polak966]

well, all our progress was being made at the RTR forums, and when those crashed I guess things just dissolved. Maybe if the forums come up again someone, but it would need to be someone very charismatic, to get things going again.

[Alkidas]

Any plans regarding the Investiture Controversy? Rebellions of the nobility allied with the pope against the Kaiser? Diplomatic negotiations between the pope and Kaiser? And generally about the independent-minded nobles having a questionable loyalty or sometimes forming alliances with foreign powers against the king/Kaiser? This would also be a way to balance the factions, since this might weaken the larger factions, such as the HRE, France and England (I believe England has some kind of internal problems in Kingdoms, although I haven't played it so I don't know exactly). The problem is that such rebel German lords would still have to belong to the HRE, since HRE would exist even if the emperor had no power.

[Hross]

Simple answer: yes.
I can't tell you much until we develop more.
We are however planning to overhaul Guilds, and we are giving at least one 'guild' or 'league' to each major faction. HRE will get at least one.
We are also discussing the aspect of Guelph versus Ghibelline either via traits or through the Advisor button which could trigger scripts.

[Pope_Fred_I]

Reformation, anyone?

[Pope_Fred_I]

Oh and...I'll gladly offer my services...I have practically no modding skills (I'm a scripting n00b, but other than that I'm useless), but I'm a total history nut with regards to most of the Catholic factions in the game...drop me a PM or something if you want to discuss further...

[mavisakal]

So where is the mod? or where will? maybe where was?

[Hross]

UPDATE:
We have removed Teutonic Order States and replaced them with Burgundy

[everybody's darling]

Burgundy?

When will the modification begin? In the 14. Century? And if you intend to include Burgundy as an emerging faction, what causal connection will made its inclusion plausible by the 11th century point of view?

[Pope_Fred_I]

Burgundy, though nominally a vassal (and generally a cousin) of the King of France, was a major power player throughout the medieval period. Better them than a monastic order with goofy helmets that was really just a nominal blip on the historical radar...

[everybody's darling]

Burgundy, though nominally a vassal (and generally a cousin) of the King of France, was a major power player throughout the medieval period.

I assume, you meant the renaissance?

So this is going to be a renaissance-mod, or will it start in the 11th century? Cause in the latter case there can be no question of Burgundy as an major power player.

[Hross]

The Kingdom of Arles was pretty important since it was the Seat of the Emperors of the Salian, Supplinburger and Hohenstaufen Dynasties from Conrad II to Frederick II, this was from the 1030s to the 1250s. It was hardly 'just a part of the HRE' but in fact you could say that the HRE was indirectly under Burgundian control.

Since the break-up of Burgundy in the 11th century, where it splintered into the Duchy and the County of Burgundy it slowly gained identity through its nobles being at the heart of Imperial affairs, marked by Besançon acquiring the title of a reichstadt. But in 1127 Burgundy became a free county, and Bar, Chalon and Auxonne came under Burgundian vassalage through marital alliances of the House of Bourgogne, which was estalbished apart from the House of Capet. But the County was finally united with the Duchy of Burgundy in 1295 again and became a true power, with the blessing of the King of France who had directed the alliance between Jeanne, Countess of Burgundy and Eudes IV, Duke of Burgundy.

The House of Burgundy was a powerful dynasty that maintained Burgundy until the 1360s and the rise of the Valois dynasty. It was also the source of the Afonsine Dynasty of Portugal and the two were strong allies, sometimes even united under specific rulers.

The motivation for including Burgundy is to inhibit both France and the HRE, which was also the reasoning behind the inclusion of Bohemia, another Duchy, because of its historical placement in the geography and politics of its day. The Hundred Years' War of the early 1400s obviously involved Burgundy politically and effected its power and alignment. Burgundy was more importantly the neccessary balance to the power of the Norman lands in the west, and the Ramnulfid threat of Poitiers and Aquitaine that all aligned themselves or by default were claimed to be assets of English dominion.

PS- Hope that clears things up for you...

[everybody's darling]

Thank you, as an historian I'm well aware of the history of Burgundy. All I meant is, that explicitly in the 11th Century, and in the 12th and 13th too, Burgundy was far away of his later importance under the Valois-Bourgogne.

One of the main reasons, Burgundy became so powerful was, that France and Germany had major problems, which allowed the Valois to chase their own ambitious affairs. But what, if in the game France and Germany are well consolidated? Then there will be no room for a quasi independent Burgundy, and such an event would miss any causal connection. A plausible supposition must be given.

Nevertheless, good look with this modification, there are many nice ideas.

[Bobolini]

Any progress? Updates?

[Hross]

Thanks 'everybody's darling'. Appreciated. It's difficult with factions in mods, someone is always going to be unhappy. We were happy with the Teutonic Order but we felt that it didn't offer much to the player really, not as a faction. It had no depth. By amalgamising the TOS back into the HRE we have strengthened them, our Baltic factions and the mpa already makes for enough dynamics around that area without a TOS faction.
We felt Burgundy would work as a buffer zone between HRE and France and add some complication and depth to the mod and the in-game politics.

Bobolini: We are working on a first Preview, including the map, some units and a few surprise goodies. No idea when that will be out but I'm sure you'll find out about it.

[Dimitri_Harkov]

Are you creating a 'generic' Burgundy of your own?

Your description sounds like you mixed the french duchy of Burgundy (bourgogne), the Franche Comté (free county) of Burgundy and the Kingdom of Arles (or Burgundy) in one faction. While the last two usually were (an almost independent) part of the HRE, the french duchy was only a part of France with no real impact on anything until it's rise around the hundred years war.

Good luck with your ambitious project!

[SaberHRE]

Hey

Just a few questions I have

1) What is your policy concerning releases? Step by step releases, or one full, which is currently the trend.

2) Why an unstable HRE? I think the myth of the completely anarchic HRE should be put down. People forget that in Early periods the Salian Emperors enjoyed undisputed authority. And the slow decentralisation of HRE was caused by a number of factors such as:
-mediterranean ambitions(i.e my term for "dynastic politics")
-interregnums
WHICH, caused the same problems for every other nation.

3) I also join in the question why Burgundy? As you mentioned Since the Salians, the Kingdom of Burgundy was annexed into the Empire, and by annexed I don't mean just joined. It became a title which came along with other titles during the succession to the Imperial crown. Whereas French Burgundy did see rise only during the reign of it's Burgundian Valois dynasty. The previous "Capetian-Burgund" dynasty did not exercise seperate foreign politics, nor did it emphasis any separatistic tendencies.

Anyways, I really like your idea of a supermod, and wish you goodluck

[boki]

Given that the mod is in its infant stages, will you be using those insane animations (decapitations, realistic horse charges, chopping legs off, horseman dies but horse lives). If I find the link to the thread I`ll post it.

[Hross]

Cheers Boki! Yeah we probably will...

Everyone else concerning Burgundy, no we are not making a generic Burgundy as such. At least not at the start, we would allow the titles of different areas and powers to be available for accumulation, so that a faction leader might start off as a Count of this and that but end up as a Duke of that and then even rise to King of Burgundy etc... This is how we are looking at factions such as Portugal who would not start out as a kingdom, but as a County. I mean Normandy as a House was a minor Duchy that grew into a kingdom through its conquest of England. What we will do with Burgundy will be similarly to the case with Bohemia (one ruler gained the non-hereditary title of King of Bohemia otherwise they were Dukes), similarly so with Lithuania, (a Duchy that will be able to grow into a Grand Duchy) and this 'growth' will probably be part of the Victory Conditions we will set for each individual case.

Burgundy might well get axed in its turn, we haven't finished discussions, we are in very early days in our development. So don't see this as a measure of the mod. We are wrestling with different options for the last faction slot, and maybe one or two more. As you all know we have not had our first preview yet so still its our perogative to change our minds as and when we want... ... At least until the first preview comes out. Which brings me onto SaberHRE's questions about releases-

Well, to be honest we don't know yet. The mod is going to be big, huge in fact, it is going to be very download heavy so we might break certain aspects into extras e.g. Music Pack, Imagery Pack, Skins pack even... Right now it's too early and too far from our minds.

Finally, HRE: will it be weak and unstable? No. It will (if everything goes to plan) be represented with the political machinery which was it's lifeblood as well as its hindrance. We want HRE to taste like the HRE. As a faction it will be one of the superpowers of the game, with at least one Guild slot dedicated to allowing other factions' settlements to be kind of colonised by the HRE. That's power!

[SaberHRE]

Alright thanks for clearing it up!

Btw, just another question. From what I understand you guys will treat "cities" as representations of provinces rather than mere cities. If so I support your idea wholly!

I'm very curious about the control points. This plan sounds really great for both playability and historical accuracy. But could you expand a little on how it would actually look in-game(I understand that you guys are just starting up the mod, but just some preliminary glimpse of how it will look like).