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Thread: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

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    Juggernaut's Avatar Banzai jūden-ki
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    Default Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    This is something I never understood. If there were only Adam and Eve at the beginning like the Bible says, how did mankind populate themselves? If we are to believe the bible, that can't happen without having Adam and Eve's children committing incest. But I find this quite weird, since Judeo-Christian religion prohibits incest severely. Is there any clear answer to this?

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    jankren's Avatar Samurai
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    The Old Testament narrates that Abraham banged his own half-sister and Lot made sweet love with his daughters (even though it also says he was sleeping but come on ...). I fail to see where incest is forbidden in the Bible.


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    karahan's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    It says that Adam & Eve were created first but that doesn't mean others wern't created after them, if not that than my guess is they got jiggy with some mokeys or something

    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    It actually states quite clearly that other human beings exist later on.

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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    It actually states quite clearly that other human beings exist later on.
    Does it say where they came from, i.e. that they did not come as fruit of the incestuous relationships that the OP mentions?
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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?


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    Rush Limbaugh's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Incest is a modern construct. Well as compared to the bible anyway. If your the only people on earth you dont have much choice now do you?
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    The Old Testament narrates that Abraham banged his own half-sister and Lot made sweet love with his daughters (even though it also says he was sleeping but come on ...). I fail to see where incest is forbidden in the Bible.
    Werent they supposed to be some of the only humans "worth" saving as well

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    Markas's Avatar Child of Nihil.
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh View Post
    Incest is a modern construct. Well as compared to the bible anyway. If your the only people on earth you dont have much choice now do you?
    The next time a woman says to me 'I wouldn't sleep with you if you were the last man on Earth' I'll be sure to use the Genesis story as a riposte.
    'When people stop believing in God, they dont believe in nothing they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    It's only incest if Cain married his twin sister, not Abel's twin sister as commanded.

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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Adam and Eve never existed and the bible story is false
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    Rush Limbaugh's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Again there was nothing about incest until man made it up. It was for genetic reasons even though they didnt know it. Too many queens with 6 teats proved the point. Incest nowdays however isnt the same threat it used to be. Gene pools used to be very small as there was not means of transportation and people married those near by them. The gene pools are so diverse at this point that it would take generations for incest to have any real effect.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    It is rather disheartening to have to explain the same thing over and over again.

    literal meaning: it is not asserted nor denied that the people Cain finds later were his descendants, thus allowing for other possibilities.

    metaphoric meaning: Adam is the prototype of man, as such not the first man, but humanity as a category. Thus his descendants are not literally brothers.

    esoteric meaning - transcultural: in Avestan Persian myth (Gayomart), in Chinese myth (P'an Ku), in Indian myth (Purusa) and in many others, including Jewish Kabbalah (Adam Kadmon) the first man is a giant who is comprisive of the rest of mankind and has sometimes an intermediary function in creation. It is usually torn into pieces as a consequence of a sin or failure, and thus causes the birth of mankind.

    cultural meaning - theorized by anthropological and archeological research: Cain and Abel are peoples or tribes, embodying archetypal farmers-urban dwellwers-smiths (Cain) who are evil and wicked and nomadic shepherds (Abel) who are good and worthy.

    Let's raise above the basest levels of discussion, please.
    Last edited by Ummon; October 27, 2008 at 02:11 PM.

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    Exarch's Avatar Praefectus Castrorum
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Lot ed his daughters but

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Lot is not a positive character in the Bible, either. The story besides, is given to justify the relationship of Jews with Ammonites ad Moabites, and their lower status in the Jewish state, etc.

    Why do people expect to read an ancient text without putting it into proper context is beyond me.

    And also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot_(biblical)

    [edit] Scholarship
    The Biblical Book of Judges 19-21 seems to offer a story very similar to Lot's ordeal in Sodom and Gomorrah. This has led many critical scholars to surmise that both tales stem from a similar legend and not from a historical account. Such issues have also called into question whether Lot was an actual person or simply a fictional character in a cautionary fable (101 Myths of the Bible, Greenberg, 2000).
    Last edited by Ummon; October 27, 2008 at 11:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    It is quite clear in a litteralistic reading of Genesis that other humans were created seperately from Adam and Eve. The inhabitants of the Land of Nod were their contemporaries, and Cain was exiled there. Genesis does not describe how these people came into being however. So no incest is necassry at this point in the story.
    The most incestuous things were ever forced to get were when first cousins had to marry after the flood (i.e. Noah's grandchildren). Obviously there are cases of incest elsewhere in the Bible.
    The Jewish Encyclopia notes the following prohibitions on incest:
    The following, however, are the degrees of consanguinity and relationship within which marriage is forbidden as incestuous in Deuteronomy: the father's wife (xxi. 30, xxvii. 20); a sister or half-sister (xxvii. 22); and a mother-in-law (xxvii. 23). In all three points, however, even in Ezekiel's time, custom by no means upheld the law (Ezek. xxii. 10 et seq.).

    The so-called Priestly Code goes furthest in forbidding marriages among relatives. According to Lev. xviii. 6-18, a man may under no circumstances marry: (1) mother, (2) stepmother, (3) sister, (4) son's daughter, (5) daughter's daughter, (6) half-sister, father's side [or mother's side], (7) father's sister, (8) mother's sister [aunt], (9) wife of father's brother, (10) daughter-in-law, (11) sister-in-law, (12) wife and her daughter [or wife and (16) her mother], (13) wife's son's daughter, (14) wife's daughter's daughter, or (15) wife and her sister [both living]. In Lev. xx. 11-21 another list is given, which enumerates only Nos. 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12, and omits those that are implied, such as mother's sister, granddaughter, and sister-in-law; explaining also that No. 6 includes a half-sister on the mother's side, and that No. 12 includes wife and her mother. This chapter describes the punishments of the various classes of incest.
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...er=I&artid=126

    However, it also notes that many central figures broke these prohibitions and did not seem to suffer any censure as a result. This is obviously perfectly consistent with the idea that Lev. and Duet. were composed far later than the we would suppose from prima facae internal evidence, and were created by a class of people who did not have full control over the Jewish people of the time.

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    jankren's Avatar Samurai
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh View Post
    Incest is a modern construct.
    Do you also agree regarding pedophilia?


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

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    Bovril's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh View Post
    Again there was nothing about incest until man made it up.
    Lots of mamals have mechanisms which prevent incest, such as driving young males out of a herd when they reach maturity (elephants, horses, certain primates etc.). Obviously having a concept of incest needs language, so in that sense man made it up.

    It was for genetic reasons even though they didnt know it. Too many queens with 6 teats proved the point.
    Interestingly, in ancient societies it was only the royals and sometimes high nobility who were not effected by prohibitions on incest. Also, the whole thing about incest creating damaged offspring is slightly overplayed. Its not incest so much having a small mating group, as long as you don't only have incest, you'll be broadly speaking ok.

    Incest nowdays however isnt the same threat it used to be. Gene pools used to be very small as there was not means of transportation and people married those near by them. The gene pools are so diverse at this point that it would take generations for incest to have any real effect.
    Again, this is kind of an odd idea. Sure if you only have incest then it will increase the rate of consolidation of genetic problems. However, if you have some incest and some outbreading, its the size of the group that matters.

    I would suggest that concerns regarding the fitness of offspring have little to do with prohibitions on incest. Studies of groups of children who have grown up in close contact show that there is markedly less sexual atraction between people who knew each other from children. Interestingly, this is one of the reasons the Kibutz system in Israel, especially where there is communal childcare, is problematic. This is probably a large factor. Others might include problems to do with maintaining controll over one's household and one's community if one doesn't have fairly strict rules about with marriages are appropriate and which aren't. Sex between people inside families is also problematic because it raises concerns about the Patriach's authority, and the provenance of his wife's or wives' children, about maintaining the virginity of daughters and so on. All in all, there are lots of good sociological reasons to forbid incest, and the problems of hereditary genetic defects pale in comparison.

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    basics's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Juggernaut,

    We have to accept that this indeed happened and happened again immediately after the flood. We also have to accept that this is as prevalent today, perhaps even moreso, than then and it doesn't mean that all would develop problems as today shows.

    If evolution was and is what more than most would have us believe then incest would have been just as prevalent, but, in the creationist's case God, when the time was right gave us commands to adjust these matters. So if the attempt is to make out that they were all screwballs, then by evolution that must be many times worse.

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    Captain Hastings's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    It actually states quite clearly that other human beings exist later on.
    Nice to know that the Bible Brigade has an answer for everything.

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