Abortion [Beren Erchamion vs Shyam Popat] Commentary Thread

[Senno]

Please post comments on the above titled debate here.

Link to Debate Thread.

[Ummon]

wrong thread.

[bushbush]

bren is GOING DOWN!!

[Каие]

As soon as I saw the "All men are created equal" segment, I face palmed myself.

[Armatus]

It never ceases to amaze me how this subject continues to be held hostage by the extremes on either end. Weather it's ideological zealousness in the placement of values on the definition of 'life' or the self-prevalent individualism which would rather ignore certain scientific realities and virtue ethics.

I am interested to see where they end up and if it will lead to a compromise. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.

[Каие]

It's sad to see in the worlds greatest and only remaining super power and self proclaimed perfect democracy Abortion is a political issue which changes massive amounts of votes.

[Bovril]

Bren is using horrible amounts of eviquivocation, i.e he's taking the biological definition of life, and then transferring it across to arguments which if properly conducted use the ethical definition. This is not acceptable, and Shyam should call him on it.

[André Masséna]

It's sad to see in the worlds greatest and only remaining super power and self proclaimed perfect democracy Abortion is a political issue which changes massive amounts of votes.

I agree, why can't we all be pro-life?

[Markas]

I agree, why can't we all be pro-life?

I guess some of us prefer for people to be able to have a choice rather than deferring our rights to right-wingers and religious nuts.

[Каие]

I agree, why can't we all be pro-life?

Or perhaps, it shouldn't be a political issue, but a medical one? Let the doctors and patients decide.

[André Masséna]

Or perhaps, it shouldn't be a political issue, but a medical one? Let the doctors and patients decide.

Agreed. But let's take it a step further. Let us abort those who aren't going to be good Aryan baby's. They will, after all inconvenience us.

[Каие]

Agreed. But let's take it a step further. Let us abort those who aren't going to be good Aryan baby's. They will, after all inconvenience us.

Why would I take it to that step? Is this a pathetic attempt to invoke Godwin's Law? You already know I am against abortion [with a couple of details]...I just don't think it should be a political issue.

[André Masséna]

You're right. We are silly fools for wanting to stop murder. Our views are obviously fascist.

Why on earth would we want to stop it politically?

[Каие]

You're right. We are silly fools for wanting to stop murder. Our views are obviously fascist.

Why on earth would we want to stop it politically?

Too much sarcasm, I fail to differentiate between the sarcasm and the seriousness. I'll tell you anyway. I personally am opposed to abortion, however I understand the concerns and the 'other side's' argument, so the compromise and common ground logically, would be;

No after 10 weeks, as that's when the little heart starts beating and life starts. Before that he is potential life, like the gametes and zygotes, not yet true life. We must choose the lesser of two evils. A life is worth more.

[cottontail]

You're right. We are silly fools for wanting to stop murder. Our views are obviously fascist.

Why on earth would we want to stop it politically?

Because there are far more important things to be talked about on a political level then abortion? How about the bail out, for example? Or the fact that America is trillions of dollars in debt? Notice that both the canidates seem to shy away from these issues, and talk about less important problems such as abortion. Why don't you start caring about something really important for the welfare of America instead of closing your minds to it and rant about abortion, when you should be worried about the economy. Honestly, abortion is a minor issue compared to our economy. Yet none of the canidates have done much to address the economy. Instead, they have been debating about relatively unimportant topics like abortion. Honestly, get your priorities right. Abortion does not need politics. It is the decision of the family. The politicans should actually start caring about important things.

As for abortion, I'm against it morally, but I can see little alternative. Those that have abortions are usually pregnant teens who have no idea to raise a kid, and definetly no rescources to do so. It seems more logical to abort the kid, then have a child when you are ready for one, then to have it now and have it grow up to be uncared for.

[Osceola]

Beren is putting up a pathetic performance, as anyone can see.

The Hat does it once again.

All hail Popat the goddamn Hat.

[Ultra_Magnus]

Abortion is a highly personal matter, It shouldn't be politicised. For example would it be wrong for a rape victim to be banned from an abortion or the 12 year old who didn't know what she was doing and got pregnant?

Politicains are just using this as sensational material to get votes from a certain group of people.

[Каие]

For example would it be wrong for a rape victim to be banned from an abortion or the 12 year old who didn't know what she was doing and got pregnant?

Sarah Palin: "Yes."

[cfmonkey45]

Abortion is a highly personal matter, It shouldn't be politicised. For example would it be wrong for a rape victim to be banned from an abortion or the 12 year old who didn't know what she was doing and got pregnant?

Politicains are just using this as sensational material to get votes from a certain group of people.

Well, in either case, both of those represent deep-seated social problems that don't have an easy answer, but rather require a massive undertaking by both society and the government to fix.

I don't agree with abortion, but I recognize the fact that some view it as being necessary. Although, I did find an article in time magazine that listed in a poll of people that had abortions that only 1.5% got abortions because of rape and/or incest, with 70-80% saying that it would dramatically change there life (the people could vote for multiple options in the poll). I'll see if I can find it on das internetz.


EDIT: Found it, but they don't have the poll online that was published in the magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0444-1,00.html

[Ultra_Magnus]

Sarah Palin: "Yes."

And to me that is a scary prospect. Im sure if she was ever in that situation her views might change slightly

Well, in either case, both of those represent deep-seated social problems that don't have an easy answer, but rather require a massive undertaking by both society and the government to fix.

I don't agree with abortion, but I recognize the fact that some view it as being necessary. Although, I did find an article in time magazine that listed in a poll of people that had abortions that only 1.5% got abortions because of rape and/or incest, with 70-80% saying that it would dramatically change there life (the people could vote for multiple options in the poll). I'll see if I can find it on das internetz.


EDIT: Found it, but they don't have the poll online that was published in the magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0444-1,00.html

This seems like a really good and worthwhile institute but the sad fact is that many women don't have acess to such facilities. And yes i agree it is a social problem but it happens sad fact and will continue to happen.

BTW my stand on abortion is that it is the extreme last alternative. I worry if abortion will become a "designer" thing and people view it as a contraceptive. If you want to have sex there are tonnes of other contraceptives available. but to ban it outright is just irresponsible. And it shouldn't be one of the main political policies that infulence thousands of people.