Our Road to Independence - The Eigthy Years' War [Always some ambitious members wanted] [Teaser movie out!]

[S-te-Fan]

I've seen that videos, and now I know for sure... WE NEED A MODEL CONVERTER!

[killerrabbit]

Yeah, we should be able to complain at CA by now

[Jaguar6]

No, that's a Ghemeijn Ruyter. Ruyters, contrary to believe, were armoured, wealthy men. They were more lightly armoured than Kurassiers but still wore wealthy armour.

Do you have any evidence

A Ghemeijn Ruyter looked like what Stefan posted. Not as a heavily armoured as above, but still heavily armoured.

Just wondering, what does Ghemeijn mean?

Ghemeijn Ruyteren and Gheappoicteerde Kurassiers.

No, the mounted troopers used swords, not pistols. Here are some pics...

I remember that Parma had his own guard.

Yes but they were not part of the Garde Real, they were mercenaries.

They weren't in an offiial unit of any kind, apart from as royal guards, who didn't fight in the Netherlands according to you.

Not true, Spain had the best trained halberdiers, and they were as much a separate unit as the Rodeleros.

-Herguletiers/ Escopeteras (mounted Harques)
-Herreluelos (mounted Harques skirmishers)
-Archeros (mounted royal guard if I'm not mistaken.)
- Jinetes (light-medium cavalry)
-Lanceros (Lancers)
-Hombres des Armas/ Caballeros (Men at Arms/knights)
-Hidalgos (medium cavalry)

Good except Herreluelos used pistols, Archeros to my knowledge weren't used anymore (I'll have to check up on that though), Spanish Lancers were called Garrocheros, and the Spanish used a light cavalry unit called Caballos Corazas (No they are not Cuirassiers).

Also, German Reiters had a lot of armour, as much or even more than Cuirassiers.

[S-te-Fan]

Just wondering, what does Ghemeijn mean?

It's old dutch for municipality.

I should make a new thread to make you guys fight eachother .

[Jaguar6]

Fighting? This is the first time I responded to him

[Dr. Croccer]

Do you have any evidence

Yes.

http://www.cavaleriehistorie.nl/De-s...rganisatie.htm

Adolf Graaf van Nieuwenaar en Meurs richtte op 22 juli 1585 een vaan ruiters op. Aangezien hier over 'ruiters' wordt gesproken is dit naar alle waarschijnlijkheid een vaan kurassiers geweest. Oorspronkelijk werden de kurassiers namelijk verdeeld inghemeijn ruyteren en gheappoicteerde curassiers .
De 'ghemeijn ruyteren' droegen een wapenrusting die licht was bepantserd en bestond uit een helm, ringkraag, borst- en rugkuras, schouderstukken, armstukken en een lange ijzeren handschoen voor de linkerhand bestemd, om zoals het voorschrift uit die dagen zo kernachtig zegt: 'den toom te houden'.


Afbeelding: Kurassiers.
De bewapening bestond oorspronkelijk uit een ruiterpistooI met een lengte van ongeveer 50 cm, dat later werd vervangen door een roer of karabijn dat 10 cm langer was. Hierdoor werden deze ruiters ook wel karabiniers genoemd. Voor het handgemeen hadden de karabiniers een zwaard, waarmee zowel kon worden gestoken als geslagen. De 'gheappoicteerde curassiers' waren in vergelijking met de karabiniers veeI zwaarder bepantserd. Hun wapenuitrusting bestond dan ook uit een helm, ringkraag, borst- en rugkuras, schouder- en armstukken, dij-, heup- en kniestukken. Om 'den toom te kunnen houden' was ook de linkerhand door een ijzeren handschoen beschermd. De helm en de borst- en rugkuras moesten bescherming bieden tegen het vuur van een kort roer. Dit laatste betekende dat de genoemde uitrustingstukken extra dik moesten zijn hetgeen weer tot gevolg had dat de gehele wapenrusting veel zwaarder werd en de paarden dus meer hadden te dragen.

Do you?

Just wondering, what does Ghemeijn mean?

Gemeente I believe. They were drawn into vaans and consisted out of the wealthy middleclas and nobility.

No, the mounted troopers used swords, not pistols. Here are some pics...

Those aren't Ruyters in any way. I don't even know what those are.


Yes but they were not part of the Garde Real, they were mercenaries.

Not true, Spain had the best trained halberdiers, and they were as much a separate unit as the Rodeleros.

Yes, in the form of the Guardia Tudesca and Guardia Real and as Officers. They weren't a seperate, field unit like pikemen. Give me an example of an official uniy of halberdiers that wasn't militia or a guard that fouhht in the 80 years war.

Also, German Reiters had a lot of armour, as much or even more than Cuirassiers.

Those are Schwarze Reiters, heavily armoured ones which practised a caracole. The majority of Reiters were lightly armoured in comparison with Dutch Kurasiers and Ruyters.

[Jaguar6]

Yes.

http://www.cavaleriehistorie.nl/De-s...rganisatie.htm

It's good enough for me Though I can't read Dutch

Do you?

I was just making sure

Those aren't Ruyters in any way. I don't even know what those are.

I never said they were. I said they were Mounted Troopers

Yes, in the form of the Guardia Tudesca and Guardia Real and as Officers. They weren't a seperate, field unit like pikemen. Give me an example of an official uniy of halberdiers that wasn't militia or a guard that fouhht in the 80 years war.

Those were guards that used Halberds, not Halberdiers themselves. Halberdiers were indeed separate field units, though I do not know of any official units of halberdiers, there are no official units of pikemen or musketeers either. Halberdiers were part of the Tercios

Those are Schwarze Reiters, heavily armoured ones which practised a caracole. The majority of Reiters were lightly armoured in comparison with Dutch Kurasiers and Ruyters.

Are you sure? Even at the end of the 1600's the Reiters still used heavy armour, not just the Schwarze Reiters. The only problem is however that Reiter was a very broad term, foreign countries would call any mount pistol armed mercenary from Germany Reiters, though they may have actually been pistoleers

[Dr. Croccer]

I never said they were. I said they were Mounted Troopers

Never heard of them.

Those were guards that used Halberds, not Halberdiers themselves. Halberdiers were indeed separate field units, though I do not know of any official units of halberdiers, there are no official units of pikemen or musketeers either. Halberdiers were part of the Tercios

Yes, as officers. Sometimes pikemen used halberds as secondary arms but I can't find any record in my 3 academic sources that Halberdiers were a notable unit worthy of their own unit.

Are you sure? Even at the end of the 1600's the Reiters still used heavy armour, not just the Schwarze Reiters. The only problem is however that Reiter was a very broad term, foreign countries would call any mount pistol armed mercenary from Germany Reiters, though they may have actually been pistoleers

Which is the point. You had wealthy ones but the majority were poor to middle class Germans who could barely afford a horse and pistol and were forced into mercenaryship, especially during the 30 years war.

[Jaguar6]

Never heard of them.

Me neither, not until I saw the pics

Yes, as officers. Sometimes pikemen used halberds as secondary arms but I can't find any record in my 3 academic sources that Halberdiers were a notable unit worthy of their own unit.

Well officers in the Tercios used partisans and spontoons, and you could never use a full sized halberd as a secondary weapon. Halberdiers were behind the pikemen, and were used to guard them from any soldiers that got passed the pikes.

Which is the point. You had wealthy ones but the majority were poor to middle class Germans who could barely afford a horse and pistol and were forced into mercenaryship, especially during the 30 years war.

Yes, but those weren't true Reiters

[Ratbag]

My PC is up and running again!
Send some work my way!!

[S-te-Fan]

Good, I'll send you some via MSN.

[killerrabbit]

Stefaneke: add, the damn, FLAGS!!!

[Kornelis]

It's old dutch for municipality.

I should make a new thread to make you guys fight eachother .

No, ghemeijn/ghemene means common or normal in Middle Dutch and Early Modern Dutch. For example in official municipal documents, when all town folk are addressed they are is usually directed to the 'ghemeyne luyde' - the common folk.

[Dr. Croccer]

Well officers in the Tercios used partisans and spontoons, and you could never use a full sized halberd as a secondary weapon. Halberdiers were behind the pikemen, and were used to guard them from any soldiers that got passed the pikes.

No, those were swordsmen.

Yes, but those weren't true Reiters

Doesn't matter.

No, ghemeijn/ghemene means common or normal in Middle Dutch and Early Modern Dutch. For example in official municipal documents, when all town folk are addressed they are is usually directed to the 'ghemeyne luyde' - the common folk.

Ah, of course. It makes sense because most Ruyters were burghers and middle class.

[Jaguar6]

No, those were swordsmen.

Swordsmen and Halberdiers, Halberdiers were always directly behind the pikemen.

Doesn't matter.

True

[Dr. Croccer]

Swordsmen and Halberdiers, Halberdiers were always directly behind the pikemen.

Again, what is this based on?

[Jaguar6]

That's just how the Tercois worked

[SherwoodGoblin]

wooow!!! eindelijk een mod met veel haakbussen, pieken en helmen

[SherwoodGoblin]

en nog 1 ding, dat zijn zeer simpele skins hoor. gewoon vanilla skins

[S-te-Fan]

1. Don't speek dutch.
2. We still have to reskin...