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Thread: Our Road to Independence - The Eigthy Years' War [Always some ambitious members wanted] [Teaser movie out!]

  1. #1
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Our Road to Independence - The Eigthy Years' War [Always some ambitious members wanted] [Teaser movie out!]


    Intro Religious actions and high taxes have lead us to were we are now. We will not tolerate that a foreign power will lead us. The time has come for independence.


    Overview This mod based on the Road to Independence campaign is split in 2 campaigns, campaign 1 will feature the dutch revolt in the low counties. Campaign 2 will feature the golden age of the Dutch Empire in coorporation with the New Age: Total War mod.


    Goals
    Chapter 1

    • Goal 1 - Create a reskin mod that has the units from this era as historical accurate as possible.


    • Goal 2 - Create a fully working stable custom campaign set in the low countries to either supress the rebellion or drive the spanish from your land.

    Campaign 2


    • Create a world map were you can colonise the world and build up the largest empire the world has ever seen.



    The Campaigns

    Campaign 1 - The dutch revolt
    Timeframe : 1579 - 1602

    Campaign 2 - The dutch golden age
    Timeframe: 1602 - 1700


    Members




    Campaign 1

    Timeframe

    • 1579 - 1602



    Faction List

    • Spanish Empire


    • The Dutch rebels


    • The Holy Roman Empire


    • England


    • France



    Unit roster for the Dutch Rebels [WIP]


    • Infantry:

    - Musketeers (Musketiers)
    - Arquebuisiers (Haakbussiers)
    - Skirmishers (Schermutselingen)
    - Bosgeuzen (Bosgeuzen)
    - Watergeuzen (Watergeuzen)
    - Marines (Mariniers)
    - Pikemen (Piekeniers)
    - Rondachiers (Rondassiers/Targiëdragers)
    - Armoured Rondachiers (Bepantserde Rondassiers/Targiëdragers)
    - Schutterij Arquebusiers (Haakbussiers der Schutterij)
    - Halberd Infantry (Hellebaardiers)
    - Wallonian Sharpshooters (Wallonische scherpschutters)
    - Scottish Mercenaries (Schotse Huurlingen)
    - English Soldiers (Engelse Soldaten)

    • Cavalry:

    - Mercenary Cavalry Regiment ( Cavalrie Huurlingen)
    - Lancers (Lansiers)
    - Ghemeijn Ruyteren (Ghemeijn Ruyters der Ghemeijn)
    - Gheappoicteerde Curassiers (Gheappoicteerde Kurassiers/Karabineers)
    - Bereden Arquebusiers (Haakbus Cavalrie)

    • Ships:

    Fluyt ship (Fluit schip)
    Merchant Vessel (Koopvaardij schip)
    Galleon (Gallioen)
    Sloop-of-War (Oorlogs Sloep)


    • Other:

    - Demi Cannons
    - Sakers
    - Small Siege Cannon
    - Big Siege Cannon



    Unit roster for the Spanish Empire [WIP]

    • Infantry:

    - Light Swordsmen (Rodeleros)
    - Light Pikemen (Piqueros ligeros)
    - Heavy Pikemen (Piqueros pesados)
    - Harquebusiers (Arcabuceros)
    - Musketeers (Mosqueteros)
    - Landsknechte (Landsknechte)
    - Halberdiers

    • Cavalry:

    - Herguletiers/ Escopeteras (mounted Harques)
    - Herreluelos (mounted Harques skirmishers)
    - Archeros (mounted royal guard)
    - Jinetes (light-medium cavalry)
    - Lanceros (Lancers)
    - Hombres des Armas/ Caballeros (Men at Arms/knights)
    - Hidalgos (medium cavalry)
    • Ships

    - Merchant Vessel (navío mercante)
    - Galleon (Galeón)
    - Sloop-of-War (Balandro de guerra)



    • Other:


    - Demi Cannons (Cañones medios)
    - Sakers (Saqueadores)
    - Small Siege Cannon (Cañón de asedio pequeño)
    - Big Siege Cannon (Cañón de asedio grande)
    • Ships

    - Merchant Vessel
    - Galleon
    - Sloop-of-War


    Unit roster for England [WIP]
    TBD


    Unit roster for the Holy Roman Empire [WIP]
    TBD


    Unit roster for the France[WIP]
    TBD


    Technologies [WIP]

    • Mercenaries tech tree
    • New drills
    • Army Reforms



    Teaser video



    Campaign 2
    [WIP]

    Features done so far
    New flags for the Spanish Empire and the dutch republic


    We are still looking for amitious members who would like to work for this mod who can do one of the following things:

    Hex editing - coding with the PackFileManager
    Skinners - people who can make new skins for the units.
    2D Artist - Some more art is always welcome . For promo use or ingame use.
    Researchers - People who can aid us with making a historical unit roster.

    So.. are you interested? PM me!


    Main things to be done:

    Minor modelling
    Retexturing of the models
    New map focussing on The Netherlands

    Support us:







    Old post:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Hello everybody,

    I was thinking about a mod like this. The Dutch revolt . It is a idea, that I'm maybe going to execute around the release of Empire: Total War. I'm planning to do 1 campaign, that spans from 1548 till 1648. So it will only feature the revolt. This is because Empire: Total War will do the things that follow. The gap of 40 years isn't that important I think, is it?. I have absolutly no idea how many turns per year I should do. But I think 2 will do. You will get 160 turns then. What the map will be? I don't really decided that. But it would be great to include France, England and the Holy Roman Empire. Since they had an influence in this revolt. But I don't think I should include a part of Spain. Because then you can train units in Spain while spain was fighting on other fronts. So that if they are beaten in The Netherlands you still have to sail to spain to get your victory. Otherwise they will send reinforcements what they not did after they lost the war :hmmm:. I also don't know anything about the units and technologies that were used in this time.

    Share your interests.

    Last edited by S-te-Fan; April 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Great idea stefaneke.

    I would advise you at first to make it simple - just two factions Dutch rebels and Spanish. Set timeframe from 1568 to 1609 - this period saw the only field battles in 80ty years war and after that the independence was de facto acknowledged. Also you would have to think about how are you going to depict whole warfare since this war was know for almost endless siege warfare. Siege and counter siege was the way of the war, because field battles were too costly by either side and didn't really influence the campaign progress. The key was to control heavily fortified cities and strongholds. And this is the thing which will be most harder to make in ETW - the 16th century siege warfare.

    As for units -
    both armies consisted mostly of infantry - the infantry was made of mixed pikemen and arquebuser (musketeer too) regiments.
    Cavalry could be in 2 or 3 types - lancers, pistollers and mounted arquebusers.
    + various pieces of artilery.

    The Map should be only low countries - Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg - the other territories are not needed matter for this war.

  3. #3
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Just like For King or Country, I can make only 2 playable factions in the first release (+ rebels) . I know that there were almost no field battles. But the player can change that. We can give realistic ammounts of money. But the rest is all up to the players. And I'm planning to do this on the E:TW engine because their were very important sea battles in this war. Think about the geuzen who got very important victory's . And can we have just a fleet for the english? That's the way how they supported the dutch??

    EDIT: The 12 year's truce was quite important because the dutch could make there own fleet then. But we don't know how moddebla the ships in E:TW are gonna be.
    Last edited by S-te-Fan; October 13, 2008 at 02:35 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    I don't think that English fleet is overly important for this mod. The English involvement in this war was to send groups of mercenaries to Dutch and harbouring geuzen in their ports, but there were also English mercs in Spanish army.
    You would have to model new ships for both Dutch and Spanish, since the designs were bit different in 16th century to 18th c. ETW ships.

  5. #5
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Can't we just edit them? BTW, thanks for your information. And I will try to inlcude Pike and Shot formations.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    I don't think so, at least at the start. Given CA modding support track record I doubt we will have the tools to import and export 3d meshes. It will be most likely be M2:TW all over again, which means that we will have to wait for about half year for the mesh format to be cracked and importing/exporting tool to be developed.

  7. #7
    Phalanx300's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Nice idea for a mod!

    The Dutch Provinces or The Dutch Republic might be a better name(though that last one maybe not) for the rebels.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Jazeker .

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Wouldn't 4 turns per year be better? Follow the seasons....6 months movement of your armies over such a small area leaves hardly any place for perfect positioning of your armies to meet the enemy.

  11. #11
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Brilliant idea, I was going to suggest it myself.
    If I have time when Empire comes out I can offer my services.

  12. #12
    Condottiere SOG's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    I am all for it..................like in the movie 'Alatriste'

  13. #13
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Ok... now Empire's release is in sight, It's a good idea to develop the idea for this small mod.

    Suggestion for the map:



    Is there a way to let the French and HRE provinces rebels and make it scriptable that the 2 factions won't take these provinces?
    Last edited by S-te-Fan; February 03, 2009 at 11:32 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Both sides had obvious advantages and disadvantages. The Spanish had elite, albeit archaic, guard units that were sent to the Netherlands over the years to quell the rebbellion and those armies were large and led by competent generals. They had a lot of success and advanced far but they came in short supply (only about three elite armies in the entire war, I think), for most of the times the local garrison and loyalists had to hold off the Dutch.

    The Dutch provinces were wealthy. This means that they could mobilize large armies but most of their troops were of militia quality and often couldn't hold their own against elite Spanish troops. But the Dutch were the first to mass arm their troops with firearms and use specific tactics that are based on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  15. #15
    Taxandrius's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    very good idea, but maybe the map should be a little bit larger, so you've got more factions. 2 factions could become boring soon...

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    Great idea man I wan't to take breda from the Spanish by using the peat chip (turfschip) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Breda_(1590)
    Yay I can besiege the city I live
    And I wan't to flood pieces of land to stop the Spanish. However I think this won't be possible.
    Good luk
    Zet 'm op

    TWC Son of the One and Only Abbews

  17. #17
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    YEAH! Brabant RULES!

    Suggestion for a roster? And 2 factions will be a start. FKOC also started with 2 factions...

    France, England and HRE are all possebilities. I'm gonna make sure that the map covers an important harbor in England (What harbor is the best?).

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Eighty Years' War - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    If I may make a suggestion....

    Why not make a 17th century mod? I haven't really seem anyone suggest anything or start one so far. I know a bit of the 80 years war takes place outside of the century but how about doing a main campaign focused on the century as a whole but starting with lots of mini-campaigns; for example the 80 years war? You could you even use the Road to Independence campaign as a base.

  19. #19
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Road to Independence - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    For all of the dutch and spanish historic freakies: Requesting unit roster .

    Last edited by S-te-Fan; April 03, 2009 at 02:45 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Road to Independence - the Revolt of the Netherlands

    IMO, I think the English should be in as well. They fought against the Spaniards as well. Ideally, the map should be split in three theatres: the British Isles, The Netherlands (up untill Calais or the Somme) and Iberia, with transition zones and maybe trade theatres.

    The Dutch army, in the earlier parts of the revolt, consisted largely out of mercenaries, volunteers and such. There were also the ''Benden van Ordonantie'', which were essentially assemblies of Curassiers and their aids. Cavalry was quite well-organised from the beginning. Many ''vaans'' of cavalry were created quite quickly by the Dutch and foreign barons.

    You had two versions of Cuirassiers: one were ''Ghemeijn Ruyteren'', which were quite lightly armoured and were armed with pistols and carbines and a short sword. And the other were ''Gheappoicteerde Curassiers'', more heavily armoured. They also used pistols, 3 in fact. And would often fire all three in a row before charging wit their swords. They rode on heavy, powerful Dutch horses. The Curassiers were often wealthy men.

    You also had Bereden Harquebusiers, which were essentially mounted arquebusiers. The difference between them and Ruyteren was that Ruyteren were heavily armoured and multipurpose. Their pistols were often secondary weapons or just used as a one-shot, pre-charge weapon. The Harquebusiers had little to no armour and weren't suited for melee. They werew often used as flankers or as reconaissance.

    Some pics:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spanish Soldier

    Spanish Swiss Guard

    Ruyteren

    Musketier


    Pikemen

    Arms from that time

    Bombard

    Moar Ruyteren

    Slag bij Heiligerlee (Dutch troops to the left, notice the ambushing musketiers)



    I'll post more later.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

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