View Poll Results: What do you think about the battle-AI?

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  • It's awesome! Nothing to complain about it at all.

    4 11.76%
  • Differs from situation to situation. Not flawless, but all in all the battles are good.

    23 67.65%
  • It's terrible. Doesn't feel like 17th century battles at all!

    7 20.59%
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Thread: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

  1. #1
    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Chancellor's Lackey
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    Default Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    First of all: I am not complaining here, I really like this mod, good work!

    But I'd like to know what you guys think about the battle AI. Do you think it can handle a 17th century battle?

    Personally I have to say (although it differs from battle to battle) that the AI somehow acts a little too... unorganized and sometimes it seems as if its just moving the troops around without any reason. Sometimes it's not using its artillery at all or sends musketeers into close combat against cavalry...

    What do you think? Did you experience something like that as well?
    Last edited by General A. Skywalker; October 08, 2008 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #2
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Equites Cohortales
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    This engine is not build for battles with musketeers, pikemen and dragoons. I don't have many to complain about the AI. But it can always better. I see this mod as a preview of Empire: Total War.

  3. #3
    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Chancellor's Lackey
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Quote Originally Posted by stefaneke View Post
    I see this mod as a preview of Empire: Total War.
    I agree. Although it's not exactly the same period in time, it really catches the atmosphere.

  4. #4
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Equites Cohortales
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Yeah, I like this kind of warfare much more then that of M2TW or RTW.

  5. #5
    Wimmer
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    the ai really doesn't know what it's doing most of the time. same as it ever was in mtw2, though, at least imo. even on very hard battle difficulty i still win by an extreme margin.

    the last battle i had was, no joke, 98 deaths on my side, 1200 on theirs. they charge close with their cavalry and musketeers, keeping their pikemen way behind. their cavalry gets swarmed by pikemen then routs, then i sick my cavalry on their musketeers, making short work of them. then i kite the pikemen around with my cavalry while simultaneously slaughtering them with muskets/artillery. rinse and repeat for most battles.

  6. #6
    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    yep, exactly... AI just sends units independently, dont have a clue how to protect his musketeers with pikemen against cavalry, and often will send pikemen against musketeers...

  7. #7
    Redcoat69's Avatar Kei kihei
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    yea the only thing that bugged me was that when the soldiers stood still, they just looked around as if they didnt know what was happening. Id prefer if they were shouldering their muskets

  8. #8
    AlphaDelta's Avatar For Country..
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    The problem is that there's no way to tell the AI to glue itself in formation. I'm 85% happy with the way the AI behaves but until CA release a 1.4 patch that 15% will never be fixed.

    Cheers
    "I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown



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  9. #9
    Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    you really have to set house rules for yourself if you wish a challenge. Perhaps a script that adds AI units to the enemy force as bonus as you go into battle. I find most of my friends cannot help but outnumber or match the enemy numbers even though they know this leads to an easy win.

    Try limiting yourself to attacking only when vastly outnumbered by the enemy. This makes it interesting at least! The AI seems much more intelligent when not on the defensive......

    Cliffs of Dover fixed

  10. #10
    Chevalier IX's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    one of the simplest house rules to put into place is one that was oft times observed on the true fields of the time,and that is one that causes the player to allow the AI to form their ranks.It is a flaw,perhaps,that under this gme engine when the enemy falls under fire before forming up they end up just sort of milling about.I have found that allowing the enemy to form their lines at the beginning of a fight makes for a much better experience.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikusa IX View Post
    one of the simplest house rules to put into place is one that was oft times observed on the true fields of the time,and that is one that causes the player to allow the AI to form their ranks.It is a flaw,perhaps,that under this gme engine when the enemy falls under fire before forming up they end up just sort of milling about.I have found that allowing the enemy to form their lines at the beginning of a fight makes for a much better experience.
    this is a good idea,and not so far from what happend during the real war,at least in the early stages.everybody would form up,colours would be displayed.some times they even agreed a start time,and not a shot would be fired untill the appointed hour! during seiges most would surrender befor it came to being stormed,and negotiate terms which could include leaving carrying arms and colours,parliament almost lost some engagements because they did this too often.the greatest problem in this game is the kamikaze generals,and its difficult to see what ad can do about this because its been a problem in most of the total war games,although i dont remember shogun being like that.

  12. #12
    AlphaDelta's Avatar For Country..
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Thirded. Give the AI some time and you will find the result is a more rewarding battle.

    Cheers
    "I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown



    For King or Country - The English civil wars.

  13. #13
    ♔Old Dragoon♔'s Avatar Guerrilla Lover
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Hmmm....I'll try to give that a go I tend to be more tactical and conceal troops and basically flank the AI quickly. I wonder now if I am confusing it and thats why it charges me so quickly with cav and muskets. :hmmm: I have never seen the AI form up as you say.
    "No need of a yak cart to puff me...by God...!!!"

  14. #14
    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Chancellor's Lackey
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaDelta View Post
    Thirded. Give the AI some time and you will find the result is a more rewarding battle.

    Cheers

    Now that you say it...

    As I've said the battles I've experienced differed concerning AI-quality. Maybe because in some battles I didn't order my artillery to open fire so early.

  15. #15
    Van Zandt's Avatar Volar
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    I have several observations concerning the battle AI.

    1. Open field, AI units will often mill about aimlessly. Artillery units will leave their equipment and march around rather than engaging the enemy. Cav units will charge alone, making them easy targets. Infantry will often mass into a "scrum", rather than forming lines. Overall, no coordination.

    2. Siege, as defender, AI units will often abandon the walls and just stand in the town square, only venturing out briefly to fire a few volleys then fall back again. As attacker, will charge the walls suicidally if a single unit ventures outside the gate. Reminds me of the Rome 1.2 patch were the units would line up in front of the gates and soak up the ballista defenses.

    I have patch 1.3 and am playing a Royalist H/H.

    Interesting idea about letting the AI form up, will give it a try.

  16. #16
    Point Blank's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Yep, let the AI form up first.
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  17. #17
    Van Zandt's Avatar Volar
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Tried your suggestion. I had a full stack Army (under Gerard) near Hull. Attacked the main Parlimentarian force near the city, and it was reinforced by a smaller group of units. Overall, evenly matched. I had 2 demi-culverins while the opposition had mortars.

    I allowed the AI to form up, my postion was on a small hill in the opposite cornor of the map. I waited for the AI to advance.

    The first unit to arrive was a single unit of Dragoons, which I crushed before any other enemy unit arrived, even cavalry. The cav arrived next, Ironsides, which charged directly into my infantry, including Pikes. The main group of enemy muskateers arrived next, also charging directly into my infantry, maybe 1 or 2 vollies first. Pikes got there to late to be a real factor.

    I dont understand why the Ironsides and muskateers didnt act like missile units. Im not even sure where their mortars were.

    Does the campaign AI patch effect this?

  18. #18
    AlphaDelta's Avatar For Country..
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    Gaius,

    Cav units will charge alone, making them easy targets.
    This is something they did in history.

    Infantry will often mass into a "scrum", rather than forming lines. Overall, no coordination.
    This is my biggest complaint with the AI. It's something I really want to fix.

    Siege, as defender, AI units will often abandon the walls and just stand in the town square, only venturing out briefly to fire a few volleys then fall back again.
    Does your force dwarf the defenders?

    The main group of enemy muskateers arrived next, also charging directly into my infantry, maybe 1 or 2 vollies first. Pikes got there to late to be a real factor.
    Did the AI stack have more or less musketeers than you? Sometimes if the AI feels it will be overwhelmed by your muskets it charge and engage in melee.

    Firing 1 or 2 volleys and charging was the Swedish tactic if I recall.

    The first unit to arrive was a single unit of Dragoons, which I crushed before any other enemy unit arrived, even cavalry.
    This isn't actually wrong, dragoons did go first, normally up the flanks, but forlorn hope in the center was common also.

    The cav arrived next, Ironsides, which charged directly into my infantry, including Pikes
    Yeah something's changed in the AI code that's making them do this. I'll talk to Grandviz when he has time.

    Does the campaign AI patch effect this?
    No it won't.

    Cheers
    "I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown



    For King or Country - The English civil wars.

  19. #19
    Anibal at portas's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    my answer is Differs from situation to situation. Not flawless, but all in all the battles are good.

  20. #20
    Wimmer
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    Default Re: Can the battle-AI handle the 17th century?

    i always allow the enemy to form ranks. i am pure defense, mostly because moving my units while maintaining their current formation is literally impossible to do (at least while having them face the right direction - does anybody know a way around this?), so my problems with the AI take your suggestion into account.

    from my perspective, the main problem seems to be the pikemen. they always leave them behind because they're so slow. if they all moved in unison i'd have a lot more trouble, since part of my tactics rely on the musketeers being undefended. i think part of my problem is that i've been playing mtw2 so long that i know the AI behavior like the back of my hand

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