Any plans for English landed gentry half armour?

[Destraex]

Just reading in another book that the Royalist cavalry at the beginning of the war were often wearing inherited armour. That is half suits of armour and buffcoats.
These looked more like units of half knights it seems
It also mentioned they usually did not have access to pistols!

discliamer: Throw away comments based on one pic only

[AlphaDelta]

Need to see a picture before I can discuss any plans to add it. I presume you're talking about cuirassiers? I can't imagine many men would of worn a buffcoat under heavy armour.

No access to pistols? Sounds fishy.

Cheers

[Destraex]

lol I will see about getting my source to you....... its a very basic book. So not sure how accurate it is.

[Destraex]

Here is the picture I was talking about. It shows a cavalryman of very early war. The initial callup of
well to do citizens I would imagine. Notice the arms are covered and the armour looks more like a knights that would have
been inherited. Also notice they are saying not many carried firearms. This could be an interesting unit early war.
However more evidence from other sources would have to be found to lend credability.

[leonn]

i think you would have seen men like this during the very early stages of the war,usually as it says the nobility.but sources speak of such armour being altered on the fly by smiths who travelled with the armys of the time,and as mounted combat became more mobile they tended to lose the arm armour and stick with back,breast and pot.sir arthur heselrige had the only real full armoured regt,the famous lobsters.sir arthur who fought for parliament drew the admiration of the king,at roundway down heselrige had shot at from close range with pistols and slashed with swords but survived thanks to his armour.charles said "had he been victualled as well as fortified,he might have endured a siege of seven years".

[Destraex]

thanks Leonn. Perhaps some of the initial units in the campaign map armies (not ones you can recruit) should be a little better armoured? Perhaps not worth the effort for AD. Would make it interesting though. Just like late Pikemen it seems had less armour and were probably a little faster because of it?.....
If the lobsters were in as a regiment I certainly know what side I would play for!

Some bonus pics from the same source:







Flags from English Cavalry of the civil war.... let me know and I can type up the caption if anyone wants.

[AlphaDelta]

Thanks for posting these Destraex. The cuirassier at the top looks interesting. It's hard to see how the neck piece looks, but it seems to extend up the the neck and under the chin. The pouldron look quite odd, presumably the artist has taken a leap of faith on that part.

The last 3 pictures look just like some plates from an Osprey book. What is the name of the book these scans are from?

[Point Blank]

Would it be worth having musketeers with the heavy matchlock (forked stand required) in the early part of the war? They would have a lower rate of fire, a harder-hitting weapon, slightly more accuracy, and run more slowly using the MTW2_Musket anim rather than the MTW2_Fast_Musket due to their more cumbersome weapon. That plus perhaps some units of the above armored gentry would add some nice flavor to the early proceedings.

[AlphaDelta]

I would like to see such weapons, but there's no animation for it.

Plus, so far I've found no way to phase out units i.e create reforms, because of the AoR coding.

recruit_pool "roundhead robartes pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource southwestern_assoc and event_counter feb_45 0

You can see that I tried to make this unit become unavailable once feb_45 counter kicks in (when the NMA becomes active). It doesn't seem to work in game.

Lastly, the amount of work it would take to double up all regiments so that there would be an early (w/ heavy musket +stand) and late (as current) would be a nightmare.


Cheers

[Point Blank]

AD,

Depends how detailed you wanted to make it, whether you really wanted to actually show the supporting fork etc. If not, a slower rate of fire can be done by swapping reload_extended into the reload animation. It would really only need new EDU entries pointing to a different soldier to apply the new animations. Putting in the new ui .tga's and EDB code would be the bulk of the work. But the mod really doesn't need it and it wouldn't add a great deal in terms of gameplay.

Also, for the event code, try:

recruit_pool "roundhead robartes pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource southwestern_assoc and not event_counter feb_45 1

[leonn]

the artist of the pictures is richard scollins whos done a lot of stuff for the civil war.google his name for all sorts of books.and you wouldnt want to play haselrigs lobsters,they were wiped out at roundway down.

[AWZC]

Haselrigs lobsters are already in - haselrigs bodyguard in game are the lobsters. Still, they couldn't stand up to 6 units of harbesquers firing at them though...

[Chevalier IX]

you an find those plates in the book "Fighting Techniques of the Early Modern world AD 1500 - AD 1763)I have that book if you would like more scans...also,I do have the Soldiers of the english civil war volumes if you are interested in some of their content.

[Destraex]

the book is called Fighting Techniques of the early modern world
AD 1500 ~ AD 1763
Equipment, combat skills, and tactics
Christer Jorgensen Michael F. Pavkovic Rob S. Rice Frederick c. Scneid chris l. scott

Here are a couple from Gunpowder Armies, Concord Tim Newark

Prince Rupert... Axe and Dog


A couple of English Musketeers wearing Uniforms.


I thought this one was interesting as the rider on the right seems to have a short buffcoat if at all and interesting armour.
The armoured bridle glove is of special interest.... because its clearer than in my original post

[AWZC]

Do you have any of the Northern Horse? I've been looking everywhere!

[leonn]

there you go ad!you can do a new rupert and put his poodle in as well.it used to fight too!

[AlphaDelta]

Unique general models aren't possible in med2.

Cheers

[Destraex]

was this what u were talking about Leonn, have it in this passage from Osprey Essential Histories
It is interesting to note that the armoured man was still considered largely musketproof until about this time.


Here is also an interesting passage from the same source:
The specialist snipers got my attention while I was looking for where I saw the halberd reference.

[AWZC]

Unique general models aren't possible in med2.

Cheers

Yeah, its only in kingdoms that they're possible.

However, could't you give ruperts bodyguard an extra officer in the shape of none other than....

BOYE!!!

[Destraex]

AWZC

Looking now, so far no luck.... don't have a dedicated book in my library to ECW cavalry.

check out the armour on the left


Also found this
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...%3Den%26sa%3DN


An exert from online google of osprey cavalry of civil war:
Looks like heavy armour as a "unit" was very rare as above mentioned.
Interesting to note that this cavalry did very well!!