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Thread: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

  1. #1

    Default Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Ok as the title suggests i have a question about cashflow in in the 3.4 version of this mod.

    I was playing as the Teutonic order and had 7 territories. And yet i could support (at best) 1 full stack with around 2 to 4 cheap militia units left in my towns.
    And the full stack wasnt even all the best units, it was around 4 spearmen, 3 order brethren, 2 knechten, 1 christ knights, 3 archers, 2 catapults and some other trash units.

    And yet the Lithuanians have 1 town (capital) and a castle and can somehow support 2.5 full stacks brimming with heavy armoured elites (virtually not 1 light unit amongst them) all Barjora heavy infantry, axemen, archers, heavy cavalry etc.

    Now dont me wrong i like a challenge but it seems like every town i capture they get more and more money, they have a stronger military now (turn 40 with 2 towns) than they did on turn 4 with all their starting towns.

    So my question is this is there some script you've added to subsidise the AI players and if so how do i disable it. I understand why you may have added such a thing but for me i like to feel like mechanics wise no one has an advantage (it feels like the Med2 version of catch up that AI has in racing games)

    Also is there a way to alter the unit costs back to their pre 3.4 amounts, i feel they are too high now.

    Note: not having a go btw its a great mod i just feel for me this version is getting a bit to restrictive money wise for players and unrealistic for the AI.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    The AI gets a money script every turn based on the number of settlements it has. It also gets a debt script which keeps it out of debt, but barely. This allows the AI to perform better, seeing as without extra money, they are extremely easy to beat. I suggest that you use the add_money cheat if you really feel like it is too challenging or unrealistic for you. The extra money is really the only way to get the AI to act semi intelligent. Try working on your economy more as well, and you shold be able to support larger armies.

    Strategies I use:
    1) 3:1 City:castle ratio, sometimes even higher.
    2)Focus initially on mines, port, farms, roads, markets in that order at first. This will build up your income. Once you become a little more advanced, then focus much more on ports and roads and markets to facilitate trade.
    3) Occupy or sack towns. Do not exterminate unless the population is extremely resentful of you. The population you have, the more you get from taxes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    It seems to me that devastation to the land caused by your years of war with Lithuania could have runied the economy in these regions. How many turns were places like Vilnius kept under siege? Prolonged sieges may bring about victory but at what cost? Also it is never good to be at war with more than a few factions at any one time. This will have a big impact upon trade. Their are some of us that played a TO campaign on vh/vh and managed to get a very healthy economy going. Also be aware of the unit upkeep costs. And be careful not to have to much cavalry in your armies unless you can afford to keep them.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; September 19, 2008 at 12:52 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Quote Originally Posted by pwf224 View Post
    The AI gets a money script every turn based on the number of settlements it has. It also gets a debt script which keeps it out of debt, but barely. This allows the AI to perform better, seeing as without extra money, they are extremely easy to beat. I suggest that you use the add_money cheat if you really feel like it is too challenging or unrealistic for you. The extra money is really the only way to get the AI to act semi intelligent. Try working on your economy more as well, and you shold be able to support larger armies.

    Strategies I use:
    1) 3:1 City:castle ratio, sometimes even higher.
    2)Focus initially on mines, port, farms, roads, markets in that order at first. This will build up your income. Once you become a little more advanced, then focus much more on ports and roads and markets to facilitate trade.
    3) Occupy or sack towns. Do not exterminate unless the population is extremely resentful of you. The population you have, the more you get from taxes.

    I may have come across as a total noob there but im not.

    I have been playing this mod since around version 2 and have never experienced this before.
    I have been playing the series since Medieval TW 1 so i know how to build the economy up to support larger armies but trust me with the Teutonic Order in the last campaign i tried (which is the one i just quit btw cause i was defeated financially) it was next to impossible.

    You start with 1 town and 1 castle so from the get go you are crippled and the town is only large so doesnt earn much money. To expand you must go through either the Lithuanians or Polish and as the Liths are pagans they are the only option really.

    Once i started the war with them On turn 2) i never got 1 turn where i wasnt either in debt or close to in debt. It was all i could do to build the occasional small church in the conquered areas to prevent rebellion from religious unrest. The problem is made worse by the being pagan so when you conquer their towns you lose many of the buildings which they have built.
    Ive never had a problem supporting 1 stack or average units with 7 territories before (even under developed territories) which is why i wondered if version 3.4 has been made tougher cost wise (and wondered how to change it back)

    And i know that the AI is rubbish normally and welcome the AI money script but maybe its not working for the Lithuanians properly or something cause surely nobody (boosted or otherwise) should be able to support 2.5 stacks of the finest troops they have available with 1 town and a castle, thats not helping the AI thats handing him a sword and bending over for him. Like i said they had a stronger military with 2 territories left than they did on turn 4 with all their starter towns, thats surely wrong?!?!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Quote Originally Posted by dave scarface View Post
    It seems to me that devastation to the land caused by your years of war with Lithuania could have runied the economy in these regions. How many turns were places like Vilnius kept under siege? Prolonged sieges may bring about victory but at what cost? Also it is never good to be at war with more than a few factions at any one time. This will have a big impact upon trade. Their are some of us that played a TO campaign on vh/vh and managed to get a very healthy economy going. Also be aware of the unit upkeep costs. And be careful not to have to much cavalry in your armies unless you can afford to keep them.

    Dave
    Yeah i hear that Dave andi dont profess to be brilliant at the game so im sure there are things i could do better but i dont know how it turned out so bad.

    I didnt have many prolonged sieges, 2 in total 1 of which was in their land at their capital. I was only at war with them. But literally every time i took a town they produced a full stack in like 2 turns, by the time they had 2 places left they had 2.5 full elite stacks brimming with hvy cavalry and heavy infantry, where as i could only support 1 or 2 cavalry in my main stack and a few hvy foot units.

    Ah well maybe i just suck at playing the TO, back to try as the English tonight for me

  6. #6

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Another thing, this mod uses Lusteds CAI. And when an AI faction is down to its last settlements it will garrison those settlements with all of its remaining power (Deep Defense).

    Dave

  7. #7

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    TO campaign is very very difficult. I'm an experienced KGCM player and I should try several times before to win a teutonic campaign. To be honest, I've changed a little the EDB, in order that Lituania don't have bajorija, who is extremely good cavalery, so early.
    An advice: don't take Palanga first, it's a castle, and don't bring much money. Take Riga first, then Palanga.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Thats the weird thing though dave... I had just taken one of its 3 last towns (it was down to 2) and it had a half garrison capital and around third of a stack in its castle.
    Then two turns later it came at me (attacked) with 2 stacks of around 11 units each and one full stack... Now some of those it dragged away from a war with the Polish but the others it built, you could visibly see its military power almost double in 2 turns on the faction scroll even though its finances were zero, production was zero and in fact every other tab was either zero or halved.
    To be honest though i think looking back on it i just wasnt able to exploit the TOs units very well. And i felt they didnt offer much diversity.
    As Blackader said the Bajora (and Axemen units) are extremely powerful and fairly cheap compared to the TO equivalent.

    Tomorrow i will play as Lithuania and see if my failure with the TO was avoidable.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    I agree with Ave on this, the rate at which the AI can build and support units now is insane. I fully agree with making the battle AI more challenging but giving it an all you can eat buffet is a bit much. I played as England and by turn 30 Ireland was attacking both of my cities there with two complete stacks, a couple of turns later and they are back again while I struggle with malitia units.

    One other thing. The pope at the moment is on a serious power trip, both Ireland and Wales had been excommunicated by turn 3 and he just kicked out the holy roman empire, poland and france, at this rate he may as well create his own one pope faith as nobody else will be following him.

  10. #10
    Koljan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    poor thread, raised from the dead.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Better to use an existing thread than create a new one

    Anyway, I altered the script on my game to give 50% of the bonus that the AI was getting and in my opinion the game plays a lot better, still a challenge but the player has more of a chance. The Pope is still throwing his Teddy in the corner though

  12. #12

    Default Re: Question about money in KGCM 3.4

    Hmm I just started a TO campaign recently and i found if you hit Lithunia hard and block of there trade (Block there ports) it slows them down dramatically.

    Also building forts near your orginal towns help alot for two reason

    1st : You can house castle units in them and too close proximity to your town

    2nd : Free garrsion (Two units) and you only usually need two order spearmen and some archers.

    Now forts cost 2500 which doesn't make them cheap but on the plus side spearmen upkeep is around 150 or 175 a turn (sorry i don't remember) so your saving 300 to 330 florins a turn which as the game goes pays off your fort and then starts generating cash.

    At the moment i got something like 5 forts each located near a town or on a chokepoint.

    Also I was abit sneaky too i waited for lithunian ships to be close to me and Poland so i dragged there sorry asses into the war which opened up a second from to the Pagan scum that and I allied with Russia to stop the Eastern Slav Bloc Alliance or ESBA i like to call it ( Russian and Lithunia just grow fat and stomp Poland and TO)

    The only issue i can see arising in my campaign are the nords getting greedy or annoyed that i own Nordish lands I already had Denmark and Norway both land large armies into Visby only for me to quickly buy and give military access and map information just to calm the northern beast.

    Overall great campaign just getting a bit off TO now as they aren't really a Country per say and there units reflect this might go and play Portugal seem to have a liking to there knights all of a sudden.

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