Why dont they teach kids about The English Civil War in schools

[Ardruire Iacób]

I'm sorry, but what exactly are we arguing here? You're both basically saying that the British Civil Wars were filled with religious tension, something already taken as given.

You're both forgetting that the many Irish Royalists were not Catholic simply because the Confederacy appealed to them more than anything else. There were Old English in both the Confederate and Royalist factions, something which led to a lot of tension in the Confederacy.

[AlphaDelta]

I'm sorry, but what exactly are we arguing here?

I've been trying to make several points, a few of them being:

• Royalists were just as bigoted as Parliamentarians.
• Royalist committed atrocities in Ireland.
• Henrietta Maria contributed to the flame that ignited the first English civil war.
• Charles put his self interests above the interests of the nation.
• Charles was incapable of working alongside Parliament and he treated the MP's as a piggy bank to be raided as and when he liked.
• Charles committed treason against the people by attempting to arrest 5 of it's representatives.

It's been a good dicussion and it's been interesting to see how people feel about learning history in school.

Cheers and thanks again for the discussions.

[Ardruire Iacób]

Yeah, all of those are valid points. The Royalists were just as bigoted, but were more afraid of the Parliamentarians than the Confederates. Hell, James I/VI really started the process of mass plantation that Cromwell would finish.

Although, the MPs were resisting Charles's attempts to levy an army to put down the Irish rebellion. It seems they refused to allow him to control an army and he got enraged and had them arrested.

[redcoat]

I'm sorry, but what exactly are we arguing here?

I have been trying to make a few points, including:

The King - like the Parliamentarians - believed that his policies were in the country’s best interests.

The King and the Puritans who dominated Parliament were incapable of working together because their policies were poles apart.

It was the alleged Puritan plot to kill the Queen that finally set the King and Parliament apart.

Parliament – like the country - was divided by the war. Hundreds of MPs defected to support the King against the Puritans.

Puritan Parliamentarian troops arrested and purged many of the MPs that didn't defect. Parliament eventually became more tyrannical and corrupt than the King ever was.

Royalists fought for ‘God, King and Country,’ Parliamentarians for ‘God and Country’ and Scots Covenanters for ‘Religion, King and Country’.

Cheers and thanks for the discussion AlphaDelta.

[Ardruire Iacób]

I have been trying to make a few points, including:

The King - like the Parliamentarians - believed that his policies were in the country’s best interests.

The King and the Puritans who dominated Parliament were incapable of working together because their policies were poles apart.

It was the alleged Puritan plot to kill the Queen that finally set the King and Parliament apart.

Parliament – like the country - was divided by the war. Hundreds of MPs defected to support the King against the Puritans.

Puritan Parliamentarian troops arrested and purged many of the MPs that didn't defect. Parliament eventually became more tyrannical and corrupt than the King ever was.

Royalists fought for ‘God, King and Country,’ Parliamentarians for ‘God and Country’ and Scots Covenanters for ‘Religion, King and Country’.

Cheers and thanks for the discussion AlphaDelta.

Micheál Ó Siochrú argues thatit was the 1641 rebellion that tore the country apart.

Parliament and country were quite obviously torn apart, and the same happened here. The Catholic Irish and Old English joined the Confederates, the Presbyterian Scottish planters joined the Covenanters. The Protestant New English were divided between Parliament and King, and often changed sides as Prince Rupert found out while staying in Kinsale.

[Desperado †]

I was taught a good informative amount on the civil war in year 4 at my school. I found it very good. We where told about the Protestants and the Catholics, and also that it wasn't just Roundheads good and Cavalliers Bad. We even went to a living history museum.

But I know it probablly isn't the same in every school.

[Chevalier IX]

I am of the opinion that these subject and others like it are often times glossed over for they fear that it might inspire in this new and oppressed genration the ideal that we do not have to sit by and watch as the tyrants in our governments destroy and exploit us from the inside out..they fear that we might see a reflection of our current state of affairs in the events of the past and be inspired by those that sacrificed their very lives to make better a situation quiete similar to our own.

[Theodotos I]

Hate to say this, but most American schoolkids don't know a thing about their own civil war either. They were either asleep in class or fiddling with their IPODs.

[Father Jack]

Hate to say this, but most American schoolkids don't know a thing about their own civil war either. They were either asleep in class or fiddling with their IPODs.

Wow I live in England and even I was taught about the American Civil War but nothing about the English Civil War. But then again my teacher was a expert in the US civil war and not the English one. It really depends what school you go to if you will get taught about the ECW. In my opinion it should be taught everywhere because it was so important for the development of Britain and to a larger extent the world.

[Ardruire Iacób]

Wow I live in England and even I was taught about the American Civil War but nothing about the English Civil War. But then again my teacher was a expert in the US civil war and not the English one. It really depends what school you go to if you will get taught about the ECW. In my opinion it should be taught everywhere because it was so important for the development of Britain and to a larger extent the world.

We were never taught about the ACW, but spent some time on the ECW, the Confederate Wars and quite a lot of time on the Cromwellian invasion. We have a pretty strict, set syllabus here for primary school and the first three years of secondary school which involves early modern Ireland (even in the last two years of secondary school there are only a few options [early modern being one them]), don't you have the same?

[asmorrey1]

I learnt about it in y7 but can i for the life of me remember anything!

[SirAndrewD]

I teach my classes about the English Civil War, even showed one class Cromwell once (with many instances of me pausing the movie and explaining where it was radically wrong). My biggest problem was that the subject was complex and a lot of the kids really just couldn't or wouldn't wrap their heads around it. I always tend to get mixed grades back when I teach it.
I actually got some flak from the school for spending time on it, they felt it was too complex for most of the students. They didn't interfere, but I think a lot of teachers just don't want to bother.

[codfarther]

im in year 9
we havnt done it yet but i reserched it aniway

[leonn]

in a 2004 poll organised by the bbc,it was revealed that 90 per cent of britons cannot name a single battle of the english civil war,80 per cent do not know which english king was executed by parliament in 1649, and 67 per cent of schoolchildren have never heard of oliver cromwell.the total uk population in 1642 is estimated at five million,of whom roughly two million were men of fighting age;85,000 died on the battlefield,another 100,000 died of their wounds or of disease.the war was the biggest military mobilisation in english history with a quarter of those eligible to fight finding themseves in uniform. in the seven years between 1642 and 1649 one in ten of the adult male population died,more than three times the proportion that died in the first world war and five times the proportion that died in the second world war.

[Ardruire Iacób]

Over 500,000 Irish people died, and at least 100,000 were deported or enslaved. This is out of a population of two million. We haven't forgotten.

[SigniferOne]

in a 2004 poll organised by the bbc,it was revealed that 90 per cent of britons cannot name a single battle of the english civil war,80 per cent do not know which english king was executed by parliament in 1649, and 67 per cent of schoolchildren have never heard of oliver cromwell.the total uk population in 1642 is estimated at five million,of whom roughly two million were men of fighting age;85,000 died on the battlefield,another 100,000 died of their wounds or of disease.the war was the biggest military mobilisation in english history with a quarter of those eligible to fight finding themseves in uniform. in the seven years between 1642 and 1649 one in ten of the adult male population died,more than three times the proportion that died in the first world war and five times the proportion that died in the second world war.

Wow... stunningly bad. Where is the education in Britain and the US leading to?

You seem like you know your stuff, can you give some excellent primary sources for the ECW, I would love to read it from the men themselves (ala Polybius).

[leonn]

Over 500,000 Irish people died, and at least 100,000 were deported or enslaved. This is out of a population of two million. We haven't forgotten.

good for you.

[AlphaDelta]

There was no need for that Leonn..

This marks the end of this thread.

Cheers