Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

  1. #1
    Zymran's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brighton, UK
    Posts
    781

    Default Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    I've been having some problems (LOTS of problems) with vassals in Crusader Kings. I'm finding it very difficult keeping their loyalty. They seem to go from completely loyal to open rebellion with no apparent reason, and I'm getting tired of constant civil war.

    Could someone give me some general pointers on how to keep vassals happy?
    Terror of the Steppes: a Kypchak AAR
    Check out my tutorial: how to change one faction into another HERE

  2. #2
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,494

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    A lot of things can make your vassals unhappy.

    1. Bad reputation can be a significant hit (I mean it!).
    2. Scutage has a limited impact. Either it doesn't add to loyalty per month or it adds 1 percent...or anywhere in between depending on your ruling law.
    3. Ruling law. Under Feudal contract your vassals won't be constantly irate with you: The highest you can set scutage is halfway. Under Royal Prerogative, which is highly centralized, your vassals will be very resentful of you.
    3. TRAITS. Traits play a huge role. Their effect on your vassals, however, depends on their traits. Traits like proud, deceitful, ambitious, arbitrary, etc can do a lot to tick off your vassals. On the other hand traits like generous, just, gregarious, etc generally add to loyalty. Traits like kinslayer, excommunicated, or heretic all lower loyalty significantly. If your vassals have those traits their loyalty will go down as well (this holds the same for all other traits: vassals with negative traits may lower in loyalty, especially traits like pride, deceitfulness, ambitiousness...).
    4. Prestige isn't huge, but in Deus Vult, your court's loyalty is modified only by traits and prestige, so naturally being well regarded in the world is a good way to be held in good regard at home. It's only really significant if your prestige is several hundred points.
    5. Don't change succession laws or laws of the realm. Doing so inevitably lowers your vassals loyalty, as much as by half.
    6. Demanding a vassal drop a title whether you succeed or not lowers all of your vassal's loyalty by 25 and gives a small reputation hit.
    7. Being friends with a vassal = good.
    8. Being enemies with a vassal = bad. Also makes the likelihood they get the trait "rebellious" more great.

  3. #3
    Zymran's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brighton, UK
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Thanks! That's exactly what I need to know +rep
    Terror of the Steppes: a Kypchak AAR
    Check out my tutorial: how to change one faction into another HERE

  4. #4
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,494

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Anytime, I've spent a lot of time playing CK.

    Just remember orthodox factions can get excommunicated by the patriarch as well! ( I think...I play a mod, the improvement pack for DV) They however don't have the problem of being obligated to go on crusade...

  5. #5
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    21,640

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    I find that all you need is a good chancellor(I think that was the title).
    They keep the vassals happy.
    I find that if the chancellor got 5 or below in diplomacy(think that was the stat) then you can prepare yourself for civil war since they will become hostile after 6 months and declare war on you, even if it's family.
    If he got 6 and above then they will be happy. Naturally if you got big kingdom then you will need a chancellor with alot of points in diplomacy.

  6. #6
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,494

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Ah yes.

    Your diplomatic skill and your chancellor's diplomatic score are combined. If it is too low, (a poor chancellor doesn't necessarily mean this) it can impact your vassal's monthly loyalty gain or loss significantly. That said having a monarch with good diplomacy and good chancellor is a good way to keep your vassals loyal.

    Is it a given that a poor chancellor leads to your vassals getting "rebelliousness"?

  7. #7
    Omar Nelson B.'s Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ur Mum's house
    Posts
    1,450

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Giving them a small gift seems to do the trick sometimes also. I give no more than 20 coin at a time.
    "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants." Omar Bradley
    Pics

  8. #8
    Zymran's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brighton, UK
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Granting titles doesn't seem to have much of a positive effect on loyalty (I'd have thought that it would) - I tried it a couple of times but the vassal just seemed to rebel sooner. I'm guessing the vassal's own power (size of demesne and wealth) have an effect on their rebelliousness to some extent..?
    Terror of the Steppes: a Kypchak AAR
    Check out my tutorial: how to change one faction into another HERE

  9. #9
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,494

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    To a point. Granting titles gives an immediate loyalty boost but in the long run can serve to empower a vassal that would still be poised to rebel.

  10. #10
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    21,640

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    Is it a given that a poor chancellor leads to your vassals getting "rebelliousness"?
    In my games yes.
    My time is always numbered when I get a bad chancellor.
    All I can do is either, give my vassals gifts but that only delays the civil war or simply accept the coming war.
    This is the reason why I always make sure that I directly control the provinces that can supply the largest troops.

  11. #11
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    1,056

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Oh yes the vassels In my Apulia game Taranto and Lecce are extremely disloyal, so I've been giving them small gifts to boost their loyalty. I think the problem is that my leader has some rather unfortunate traits

    I'm playing Deus Vult with the DVIP add-on.
    CPU: Intel i7-8700. GPU: MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G. RAM: Corsair Vengance, 16Gb HD: Kingston SSD 240Gb (System), Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500Gb (Steam), Western Digital 500Gb. PSU: Corsair CX600W

  12. #12

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    this is a god damn loop
    i have to give out titles because i have too many provinces and can't manage them
    but i lose reputation toward all my stupid vassels because i have a bad reputation, but i don't even know what brought that bad reputation on me
    and if i grant titles, they will just end up rebelling against me

    if only it was more clear on reputation, i realised i was claiming too many titles, but i don't know how to stop claiming, i believe this hinders my reputation
    i have 7000 prestige and 500 faith points, i don't know why they hate me like that

    by the way i found this thread with google

  13. #13

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    You have to be careful about how quickly you expand your realm. Claiming titles, attacking and annexing/vassalizing other countries always causes your reputation to fall. The only thing you can do against that is to wait for it to recover by itself (which takes very long; a high piety value improves the recovery rate) and/or to create new vassals from your existing, directly controlled, territory. Other than that, there is nothing you can do. To keep your vassals loyal, you can also try these things:

    - Lower the amount of money they have to pay, preferably to zero.

    - Check up on your laws, some of them have a negative influence on your vassals, while others have a positive one.

    - Similarly check up on your current ruler and his traits and what influence those traits might have.

    - Try to make sure that as many of your vassals as possible are members of your dynasty - they get a special loyalty bonus for that, depending on how closely they are related to the current ruler (and thus, how far up they are in the chain of succession). The only exception are troublesome members of the dynasty, of course (like bastards that already want their share of the territory).

    - Try to make sure that your current ruler is not an enemy of a current vassal - that usually creates a very noticeable negative impact. Being friends with a vassal conversely is a very good thing to have.

    - Try to get a character as ruler that has a very high intrigue value. Intrigue influences the number of provinces that you can control directly.

    - Always try to keep the efficiency of your rule (i.e. how many provinces you rule directly compared to how many you would be allowed to) above ca. 70% if you absolutely have to. In all other cases, go for 90-100%. If you have a very low efficiency, bad things happen a lot more frequently in your realm and those can easily influence the loyalty of your vassals at times.

    - Try to win your vassals over. If you have some spare cash, give them a few gifts here and there. That's a temporary solution, of course.

    - If you have the money, use your own army instead of that of your vassals'. Whenever you call for their hosts, they lose a bit of loyalty towards you. That is especially true if they are very loyal and you directly recruit their army without asking first. That's normally not a problem because your vassals would recover their loyalty eventually, but in a situation of continuous loss of loyalty, calling for their hosts is just speeding up the process.
    Last edited by Tankfriend; June 01, 2010 at 03:58 PM.

  14. #14
    Trax's Avatar It's a conspiracy!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    6,044

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Always try to keep the efficiency of your rule (i.e. how many provinces you rule directly compared to how many you would be allowed to) above ca. 70% if you absolutely have to.
    I've read on the Paradox forums that bad things start to happen when efficiency drops below 80%.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    hey thanks a lot for the advice
    well damn, i have feudal law which makes loyalty rise over time
    i think i have too many claims, but i dont know how to drop them
    it's my first game and played carelessly
    this has to be the main reason why i have bad reputation
    right now all vassals declared war but i have subdued the ones close to me, the others would want peace giving me all their money, keeps me afloat
    oh well i'll just post a screenshot
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  16. #16

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    I've read on the Paradox forums that bad things start to happen when efficiency drops below 80%.
    That's right, but it is still relatively bearable at 70%. Even so, it's more of an emergency measure for desperate times to go so low in efficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
    hey thanks a lot for the advice
    well damn, i have feudal law which makes loyalty rise over time
    i think i have too many claims, but i dont know how to drop them
    it's my first game and played carelessly
    this has to be the main reason why i have bad reputation
    right now all vassals declared war but i have subdued the ones close to me, the others would want peace giving me all their money, keeps me afloat
    oh well i'll just post a screenshot
    Yes, definitely seems like a case of too quick expansion. You have a huge amount of claims, so I guess you either had a lot of vassals break away from you (you automatically get a claim on them because they were your vassal afterall, "borrowing" the land from you) or you were very busy at producing new claims. Not exactly a good display of power if you cannot actually act on those claims, but that should be of no concern to you for the moment - other things are more important right now.

    See that "-3" directly in between your ruler portrait and your treasury? That's your country's stability rating. Obviously, the higher you are, the better. And it's worthy of a note that +/- 3 are the highest and lowest values possible, respectively, so your country currently is as instable as it can get. That means that you get a lot of bad events, disloyalty, bad character traits and values etc. - basically, everything gets bad. The only way you can get rid of instability is to raise your governance efficiency and that in turn is dependent on how many provinces you rule directly. So, whether you like it or not, you have to create new vassals if you want to get out of the spiral, eventually.

    Here's what I would do right off the top of my head:
    - Look at each single character listed under the "court members" tab on your ruler's character sheet as well as all the characters belonging to your own dynasty (marked by the little blue shield with a drop of blood on it) and that are members of your court (your child being an obvious candidate). With each character, hover your mouse over the loyalty percentage on their respective character sheet and look at the factors that influence their loyalty. If you have found a character that has a rising or stable loyalty value...

    - ... do not waste any time and turn them into a new vassal, whatever their skills, age (yes, you can turn your infant son into a vassal as well; weird and ineffecitve, but you do not have an alternative here), position in your court etc. As you have the title of king, you should preferably create new Dukes because you can get rid of many more provinces that way. They will be more powerful and dangerous as well, but that is a risk you have to take.

    - Create as many loyal vassals you need to reach a governance effectivity of 100% again (yes, you will hardly have any direct control anymore, but that's the way Feudalism works). From then on, try to avoid war where possible and...

    - ... wait. Your main concern should be to keep your realm together - bribe any disloyal vassals for as long as you can. If you have to fight a disloyal vassal, re-vassalize them instead of annexing them. That way, you won't have to use up all of your court to create new vassals and it is also easier on your reputation. Whenever an event comes up that offers a chance for an increase in stability and you can pay for it, do so. If you get a chance to raise your piety further, take it. Piety will make it easier to recover your reputation.

    Basically, you are trying to win as much time as you can for your country's stability and reputation to recover. From then on, it should be a little easier on the loyalty issues. Just remember to always create new (and loyal!) vassals whenever necessary.

    Here is a little heads-up on how the Feudal system works:

    1st Tier: King. This is you in your current game. A king has direct control over his share of the realm ("demesne"; the territory directly controlled by someone - this is the territory that counts towards your ruling efficiency), as well as a limited amount of control over any direct vassals he has (i.e. call the host etc.). Kings can have both Dukes and Counts as direct vassals.

    2nd Tier: Duke. Dukes rule duchies (duh), larger areas of territory inside the overall realm. They normally hold all titles associated with the provinces (Count of ..., ... and so forth) they have been granted as well as the final title of "Duke of ..." for the overall region that the provinces form (like "Bavaria" or "Prussia"). As Dukes most likely do not have the means to rule all their territory as a demesne, they will create vassals of their own and pass on the corresponding titles to them. Dukes can only have Counts as direct vassals and have similarly limited control over them as a King has over his vassals.

    3rd Tier: Count. Counts typically rule a single province (County) as their demesne (they can have more, of course, but each province comes with its respective title). They cannot have any vassals at all - if they try to create one, that vassal automatically becomes a direct vassal of the original vassal's liege (i.e. the Duke or King the original county is a vassal of).
    Last edited by Tankfriend; June 01, 2010 at 06:13 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    okay thanks a lot, i was doing that but i didn't see your new post so i just made all vassals
    loyalty is dropping more and more as i cant gift them enough anymore, but now the kingdom is "stabilised" (still have -3 but no more revolts)
    does mariage play a role in getting better reputation?

  18. #18
    Trax's Avatar It's a conspiracy!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    6,044

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Also, don't give disloyal characters any office in your court that can cause some nasty events.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    haha yes, i remember the first time i lost a large sum of money because of disloyal steward
    now my reputation is back to tarnished, it's all good
    thanks!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Crusader Kings: Damn Vassals!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
    does mariage play a role in getting better reputation?
    No, marriage does not influence your reputation. The only thing you can influence with a well-arranged marriage is your ruler's prestige and money, not to mention potential future heirs and inheritances.
    Reputation does influence marriages, though, because rulers don't want to waste their precious daughters on countries that would likely betray them soon anyway.

    Good to see you made one step on the reputation ladder, btw. Just keep it low and quiet for some years (or decades...) and it will eventually be up and running again. With the stability, you'll have to wait quite a bit for it to improve, though. That's why it is important to take any chance to improve it through events.
    Once both your reputation and stability are up and running again, you can try to revoke the titles of some vassals - if they really like you, they will concede. If they don't, you can legally declare war on them and take their land back again (your reputation will get a few hits, though). That way, you can re-organize your realm afterwards. That's especially useful if you want to reduce the number of direct vassals and thus the number of potential rebels in the future.
    Last edited by Tankfriend; June 02, 2010 at 09:33 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •