Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)

[Sarissofoi]

Greetings
I again play your mod and I must say that I am amazed by huge amount of details you make.
It is awesome.
Congrats and keep up good work.
BTW Can I ask you some questions? About modding and stuff.

[Axalon]

Hi and thanks a bunch Saris….

Well if the questions are Redux-related somehow – by all means fire away.

- A

[Sarissofoi]

Greetings Axalon.
Thanks for reply and sorry for dealy. Some things eat my time.
I play some as Polish Kingdom and game is interesting. So far.
Many problems with Lithuanians. Mostly because I refuse to use other than Slavic or regional units(no need for generic) and suffer some massivly routs caused by my own stupidity and MTW habbits.
Deffinitly it plays diffrent from vanilia or XL. AI is better on strategic map(not many crappy or outdated units) than in MTW. I notice one bad thing that AI is to eager to retreat even if they have better quality forces on strategic map.
I see new map. Great job. Can you add more provinces? Because I read somehwere that number of provinces is hardcoded but here I see more of them. Splendid.
I think about modifing your mod to satisfy my personal taste. It is great but some things bother me and I want to fix it. Mostly I feel that there is to many generic units and have need for more region or culture specific units. Also I want modify some nations and include some recruit systems(some new buldings, more mercenary units, core regions etc) - wonder how hard it will be to implement. Also what about new countries/ It is possible to add them without too much problems? I see some guides but I wonder if things are difrent for your mod.
If I get more time I propably try to do something about it.
Also do you check Caravel mod? There is great option for general replace when they die from age by new fresh and totally green leader. I see that this mod can benefit from this more than vanilia. It is possible to implement this?

Anyway great job you done. This mod have great consistency and play well. Splendid work.

[Axalon]

Hello again Saris… A ton of replies and comments for you then…

I play some as Polish Kingdom and game is interesting. So far. Many problems with Lithuanians. Mostly because I refuse to use other than Slavic or regional units (no need for generic) and suffer some massivly routs caused by my own stupidity and MTW habbits.

Well, in my experience (on veteran/expert-level) Poland is among the toughest factions there is in Redux so things should be harder than usual – that was the plan anyway.

Overall, I think it is fair to say that Redux (as in RXB1002) is less forgiving to the player then raw MTW. Battles are more intricate and lethal as there are in effect more parameters and variables at play in Redux then in raw MTW – not to mention that the troops are less standardized as well. MTW-tactics is usually a bad idea in reduxed battles.

When I have tested the Poles - I have also virtually ignored the “generic” troops and gone straight for the Slavic formations as they are solid enough to make such a doctrine viable and sustainable long term.

Deffinitly it plays diffrent from vanilia or XL. AI is better on strategic map(not many crappy or outdated units) than in MTW.

Yup, that is the result of design – specific for Redux. I worked very, very hard for that to happen for all factions – despite the varying wealth in the coffers and despite the much harsher economy Redux has all over. It is hardly something accomplished on a whim – it takes ridiculous amounts time, testing, thinking and some insanity to make it happen – that was my experience anyway...

I know that building proper armies has been an old problem for raw MTW since day 1 and a problem that many modders/designers have tried to address in various ways in the past – usually by removing the peasants. Personally, I don’t think that is enough to effectively counter that problem properly or seriously. Obviously the reduxed roster helps but it is hardly the only reason for it as there are numerous factors that combined create the circumstance we have in Redux.

I notice one bad thing that AI is to eager to retreat even if they have better quality forces on strategic map.

I have noticed that too, and as far as I can tell this is a hardcoded engine-thing that comes with raw MTW (regardless of version) – after all it had that very same problem since day 1 – as in AI too easily resorts to stupid retreats when it should not. I have never found a true way to actually counter it and I don’t think it is possible – sadly enough. If it is, then it is news to me. There don’t seem to be a true and decisive parameter for it within MTW mechanics – which I have seen at least. If I could fix it, I certainly would.

I see new map. Great job. Can you add more provinces? Because I read somehwere that number of provinces is hardcoded but here I see more of them. Splendid.

Yes, thanks… The map is changed and redesigned for Redux but it still have the same amount of regions as raw MTW. The changes are done according to what I personally regard as a more optimal distribution of provinces/squares and how these connect. Now, it is possible to change and expand the map – but it is a lot of fuss and thus it is my suggestion that you do stay away from all that for that very reason.

The max land-provinces are 108 and the sea-squares are about 37 combined – it is all dictated by a limited 256 color palette (108x2 + 37x1 + 2 = 255). Any clearly deviating claims on those numbers are nonsense as the VI/V2.01-engine (the one you use) can’t handle anything beyond that.

I think about modifing your mod to satisfy my personal taste.

By all means that is your privilege and headache. If it is just your personal copy of Redux you are free to do whatever modifications/customizations you like – as long as you also realize that I can not (and will not) be responsible for the results that comes if the default version and design is altered somehow.

I have no illusions that what I have designed is something that supposedly always is 100% corresponding to what everybody else may prefer in a game. The best gamedesigner for your game – are you. As always, Redux is no exception to that rule and in fact it does recognize that reality by design (which is probably unique for Redux – in terms of MTW alterations anyway).

I have created the game I personally like and want. If other people likes it as well – it is a wonderful bonus. There are usually things in all games that to us personally “could have been better or different” and if it is annoying enough – and possible somehow to us – we change or mod it accordingly.

I have changed many games in the past to my personal liking so the concept is hardly strange to me. However, you (and everybody else) are on your own in all such ventures in Redux. Anyway, I would suggest that you do read the “Customization & Redux” entry in “ReadMe_1002.txt”. There are many things there that are of great value to all people that are interested in customizing their personal copy of Redux in various ways – new buildings, troops or whatever….

It is great but some things bother me and I want to fix it. Mostly I feel that there is to many generic units and have need for more region or culture specific units.

Again, see my previous answer above….

Also I want modify some nations and include some recruit systems(some new buldings, more mercenary units, core regions etc) - wonder how hard it will be to implement.

If we disregard the factor of GFX (which is usually a lot of fuss) it is not that hard to put into practice into Redux – the default design has already made some limited room for it. Redux deliberately got a bunch of blank slots for additional custom units and building and agents – I suggest you use them first. Anything beyond that will be somewhat harder – but still possible in various ways. All this assuming that you know what you are doing and how you must do it.

Also what about new countries/ It is possible to add them without too much problems?

Don’t go there… As I said, it is a lot of fuss.

I see some guides but I wonder if things are difrent for your mod. If I get more time I propably try to do something about it.

What is different about Redux are the designs, models and ideas put in to practice there – the engine however have the same hardcoded problems and limitations as raw MTW.

Also do you check Caravel mod? There is great option for general replace when they die from age by new fresh and totally green leader. I see that this mod can benefit from this more than vanilia.

Nahh, I can’t say that I do… The whole purist-approach and the supposed virtues of preservation does not appeal or make much sense to me personally. After all, I am clearly in the business of doing opposite stuff on MTW so it should hardly come as a surprise. It is essentially an open clash of ideas on what is supposedly regarded as desirable and beneficial somehow in design for MTW-based work. These kinds of conflicting design-ideas and -values seem fairly common between MTW-based stuff actually.

Anyhow, I have briefly looked at the files (V 3.1) and was surprised to see how small it actually was in terms of scale. There were only about 10 files changed that will also effectively alter the game somehow. Still, the mod has received relatively much attention and appreciation over at the ORG-boards and that strikes me as unusual for something so small in scale. In my experience smaller (or even medium) stuff usually doesn’t receive much attention - or appreciation - regardless if that is fair or not. It seems to me that this mod managed to all the same be the exception to that rather dull circumstance.

I see that this mod can benefit from this more than vanilia. It is possible to implement this?

Well, if we are supposed to be honest about these things, that feature actually comes by default with the VI-engine and thus it has very little to do with some deliberate design in mentioned work. Anyway, yes… It is very possible and simple to implement that on all VI/V2.01-games and thus upgraded Redux as well. All we need to do is to put in correct command line in the EXE-shortcut and it is reality next time we start up the game. It is all in the frogladys guide for MTW.

Anyway great job you done. This mod have great consistency and play well. Splendid work.

Again, thanks…


- A

[Xerrop]

What about players using a french, german or italian version of MTW?
Can we also play this mod?

edit: according to the description there are 10 playable factions out of the 18. Which?

[Sarissofoi]

@Xerrop
10 playable factions.
6 regular:
English,French,German,Italians,Spanish and Polish.
4 optional:
Byzantians, Moors, Saracen and Norse.
Other can be unlocked by simple txt change although they lack proper discription and propably only possibly to play them at conquest mode.

@Axalon
Thanks for reply.
I will try to mess with your great mod but currently I am short on time. Happen.
Anyway great thanks for bringing your mod for people.
Good luck.

[Axalon]

Hi Guys....

What about players using a french, german or italian version of MTW? Can we also play this mod?

Yes... All you people can play Redux just as successfully as it is played on the Spanish version - there is no difference here. The method and solutions for it are exactly the same regardless of any versions. And it is already outlined in the previous posts on what to do and how to get there. As long as people do that very stuff - they can play Redux today essentially.

As long as people can accept to play it in English - and they can get a hold of the necessary English files somehow (as is also previously outlined btw) - there is nothing stopping them to play Redux at all. All this regardless of what version of MTW we may have. ...V1.1, VI/V2.01 Gold-, ERAs-editions etc. No matter... Spanish, German, or Italian versions etc. It makes no difference either (the folders within "loc" are obviously called other things then "Eng" such as "Fra", "Ita" and "Deu" but they do function and has to be replaced in the same way). Redux is thus possible to play for anybody (in English)....

- A

[Axalon]

I recently installed W7 pro (64bit) and to my big surprise it just works brilliantly with MTW-Redux (while raw/vanilla MTW crashes in no time). Thus I can now fully confirm that Redux certainly do and can run on W7pro, 64bit-version. Very, very well actually...

Ironically W7pro works significantly better then XP sp3 (32bit) and can even seriously compete with the superior loading times of specialized old hardware and Win2000 drives (GFX-cards like ATI 9800 pro or X800-series with pre 2005 drivers). Loading times on the V.1.1 is down to about 2-5 sec while (yet again ironically) the VI-version is actually somewhat slower - about 3-4 seconds more then V.1.1. Overall, these times are either about the same or even faster then I get using the specialized old hardware and Win2000.

My hardware is one out of two Sapphire ATI HD5830 cards (crossfire disabled, otherwise chaos) and Catalyst 11.8 drives for W7 64bit (default settings and DX11 installed). The processor is an Intel E8400 and I have 8 GB in ram. No fuss about the ram what so ever anywhere - in VI it has by default 2034 MB enabled for the game (pyrotechnics set at 100). SFX seems even fully functional on high settings! No lag anywhere. I have never been able to play with such audio settings before without getting some annoying lag in battle as a direct result - until now. So that certainly works very well too (VI or V.1.1. no matter). Depending on what limitations your monitors have - I still recommend people to use 1280x1024 or possibly 1600x1200 if the monitor can cope with it. Personally I use 1280x1024 and that looks just fine to me.

The only flaw I have been able to find so far are that the arrows, bushes, shrubberies, war machines and castles in battles are rendered slightly off (sort of an extra contour applied to them, presenting them slightly wrong in-game. In the case of castles it looks rather bad with the pinkish stuff - but I can fix those files for a RXB1003 release. I think all the other stuff is tolerable, all things considered). Other then that, no other issues found. Note that I had the exact same rendering-issues while I was using XP-drives (32bit) on my GFX-cards so my guess is it has actually little to do with W7. In this limited regard the old specialized hardware and stuff remains better as there is no such issues with that.


All this means that Redux certainly can run on at least some fairly modern hardware using W7 and still it is possible play the game as it was supposed too. As in a fast and fluent game experience, steady under 10 sec loading-times and as much stability as the MTW-engine allows (VI is still more stable then V.1.1. but somewhat slower). It seems like it is now matter of hardware and drivers....

Any other information on W7 and Redux, fire away folks...

- A

[VictorGB]

Hi Axalon

Glad you're back on the boards.

Sorry for going off topic, but...

I am really interested to hear your opinion on the subject of the "MTW Campaign AI & hard vs expert difficulty" thread.

Best regards
Victor

[Axalon]

Done Victor... Anyway...

As people time and time again ask what changes and differences one can expect to find between Redux and MTW - beyond GFX - I once compiled a list for 'em to figure this out on their own - instead of me blabbering away how "big and fat" the differences are - while experience has it that most people would not really believe that anyway...

So, I simply thought that it was better just to take the actual numbers applied in both games and let them do all the talking for a change. Then it should be extremely clear what level of changes and differences we are really facing here. Besides, the actual numbers within the game never lies - they just are - regardless whatever we may think of them, they just show things as they are and that is exactly what I wanted here. Ironclad, straight up, hard facts - and people should base their conclusions upon such stuff anyway. Besides, it's both interesting and fun I think... Thus, without further ado.... MTW vs. Redux (RXB1002).... In a "15 rounds matchup" of....


The Numeral Frenzy Contest (Mrk.II)
=======================================

Round 1: Most turns
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 366 total
Redux: 560 total
-
Redux wins! Most turns...


R2: Most Factions
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 20 total (all eras)
Redux: 18 total (all used at start up)
-
MTW wins! Most factions...


R3: Agents in game
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 12 total (all eras, 15 GFX-wise)
Redux: 09 total (in effect - otherwise 10 and 15 GFX-wise. )
-
MTW wins! Most agents…


R4: Tech-Tree buildings
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 103 total or 108 with VI…
Redux: 169 total (active, in effect 165-166 I think)
-
Redux wins! Most buildings…


R5: Troops
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 115 or 149* total --- *VI-numbers
Redux: 199 total (active)
-
Redux wins! Most Troops…


R6: Unit clusters (default)
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: range: 12, 40, 60, 96, 100 men* = 5 clusters (excluding artillery)
Redux: range: 1, 5, 7, 10, 12, 14, 20, 24, 40, 60, 80, 100 men* = 12 clusters (excluding artillery)
-
Redux wins! Most diversity…


R7: Actual variables: Charge bonus
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min 1 --- 8 max = 8 variables /8 used
Redux range: min 1 --- 15 max = 15 variables /10 used
-
Redux wins! Most diversity…


R8: Actual variables: Attack stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min -2 --- 6 max = 9 variables /9 used
Redux range: min 0 --- 15 max = 16 variables /13 used
-
Redux wins! Most diversity…


R9: Actual variables: Defence stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min -3 --- 7 = 11 variables /11 used
Redux range: min 0 --- 15 = 16 variables /13 used
-
Redux wins! Most diversity…


R10: Actual variables: Armour stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min 1 --- 9 max = 9 variables /8 used.
Redux range: min 1 --- 9 max = 9 variables /9 used.
-
Redux wins! Most diversity in used variables…


R11: Actual variables: Honour stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min -2 --- 12 max = 15 variables /7 used.
Redux range: min 0 --- 10 max = 10 variables /7 used
-
MTW wins! Most diversity in variables…


R12: Actual variables: March stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min 4 --- 9 max = 6 variables /3 used
Redux range: min 4 --- 9 max = 6 variables /5 used
-
Redux wins! Most diversity in used variables…


R13: Actual variables: Run stat
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min 8 --- 24 max = 16 variables /6 used
Redux range: min 7 --- 28 max = 21 variables /20 used
-
Redux wins! Most diversity...


R14: Unit Cost
--------------------------------------------------
MTW range: min 50 --- 800 max = 750 variables /? used (plenty)
Redux range: min 75 --- 2500 max = 2425 variables /? used (plenty)…
-
Redux wins! Most diversity...


R15: Artillery*
--------------------------------------------------
MTW: 11 total (7 out of these are gunpowder-based however, Redux has no gunpowder at all).
Redux: 6 total (technically, in effect 4)
-
MTW wins! Most artillery...

*Redux has no gun-powder at all, thus this comparison get somewhat skewed.
If we stick to non-gunpowder based artillery - MTW only have 4 and thus Redux
would win on a technical knock-out. Still, lets give this win to MTW anyway...
For good sport...


Final Results:
=======================================
MTW: 4 wins
Redux: 11 wins



...Any questions or comments?

- A

[VictorGB]

Hi Axalon

I see you have answered in the other thread. Thanks.

Best regards
Victor

[Axalon]

No problem Victor... Anyhow...

I have created a hotfix to lessen the impact of the previous "pinkish" rendering anomalies - mentioned in post:208 - that might happen on some newer hardware - using GFX-drivers for W7 64bit (for instance). It will not make the problem disappear but it will make things more tolerable as the pink will now turn black instead - which is much better and less annoying... Full instructions etc. is available in included "readme" and this hotfix works on ALL versions of Redux. Remember, this has to be installed last of all things to have effect. Here is the link...

http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/942...-hotfix1-0-zip


If need be, I can upload it to Game Front as well - just let me know...

- A

[Axalon]

I have been meaning to post up this stuff on the AI for quite some time and now I finally come around to it. This test of 10 games/campaigns was made to gather further information about Reduxed campaigns and AI-behaviour. It is an effort to gather some data about it and chart it out somehow – just to provide a better grasp of what can be somehow expected and concluded from the new AI of Redux.

The findings is very interesting to me personally and they obviously show that Redux have a high level of unpredictability among many other things. Each campaign is evidently not like the next (despite played faction), the AI is generating new and fresh experiences over the map - time and time again even without the player...

Anyway, I can make plenty of conclusions out of these tests and this material - and it certainly can provide basis for any further discussion, examination and conclusions of these things - if such stuff are desired here. At any rate it provides a decent clarity and effective overview of circumstances found within Redux - when the results are compiled together like this. Things like the tendencies of the AI (if any), circumstances that possibly generates doom and prosperity to various factions all over the map, and some general answers of in regards to faction-balance, and the AI capacity in such regards etc. etc.





- A

[Christianus]

Dear Axalon! I have been looking forward for a long time to play your mod. Now towards Christmas its time for me I think Are you working on any soon coming new versions, or would you suggest I start playing it now?

[Axalon]

Hi man, nah you just go ahead and play RXB1002. The changes and additions I made so far for the future
RXB1003-version (whenever that will be released) are totally save-game compatible with RXB1002...

- A

[Thrillology]

So, what do I install and how do I do things properly?

I think I jacked up my Medieval 2 Total War (too many mods I'd reckon) and I don't want Medieval: Total War to crash on battles like Medieval 2 Total War does.

So, is there a readme file or am I supposed to already know this-? This is so that I can be safe and do things correctly.

[Christianus]

Thank you Axalon. I will start playing today

[Axalon]

Alright Christianus... Happy fighting and hopefully you will like Redux and all the changes it brings.
By all means feel free to post up questions or share some game-experiences with it if you like. It
might be interesting for others curious on Redux as well.


-----------------

Mr Thriller...

See post 1, and read provided instructions and distinctions there. A (fully detailed) readme
comes with the basic Redux-package (as always). There is even included a visual guide too
on how to install...

- A

[Ironlich]

Excuse me but is redux compatible with MTW gold ( wich automatically installs VI and patch 2.01 )? I tried to launch tha game and it gives an error about the papal faction portraits. Thx for the answers.

[Axalon]

Hi there Ironlich,

Redux is compatible with ALL editions of MTW1 as long as they are either v.1.1 or v.2.01 ("patched up to" or "set by default" - no matter). This includes Eras- and Gold-editions as well. Now...

To install Redux you first set up a clean install of MTW somewhere and then properly patch it up to either V1.1 or VI/V2.01 – once that is done you THEN copy/paste over Redux on top of MTW, standard package first and VI-module last… If done this way, Redux should work just fine.

You need to download both modules and then install them properly and in order (and obviously at the right place, wherever you put your clean install of MTW1) - and then it will work for you too. Read and follow provided instructions closely if there are any further problems or related questions.

As always, if you or anybody want to post questions or further discuss Redux somehow - whether it be pointers, details in gameplay or perhaps maybe offer/share some advice on and/or experiences of your own regarding aspect X in Redux, go right ahead. If you guys want to further discuss something already highlighted (or not!) in the thread somehow - by all means do so.

- A