Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)

[Sir Althfons]

Hi guys, and thanks all for posting...

***


You lost me.... Let me put it like this - how is that stuff somehow NOT covered by the Moors - this in Redux?
As in their usual attempts at conquering the Iberian peninsula - and then - going for France, if successful? ...?...

- A

Greetings Axalon
You don't have to take it litherally. I just looked at the map and saw no faction gets the whole of the map except for your territories as it used to do in old Medieval. Which usually was the Almohads, in my campaings at least.
It was only an slight comment, nothing else...

[William the Silent]

After years of not doing much gaming i decided to try a MTW-VI mod again. But my CD got scratched up after i dropped my external CD-rom drive. So i got MTW-VI gold for 7 Euro's on Steam. Great price for such a fun game. Also much easier to put several mods on your computer.
I downloaded several from the Steam forum.
My favorites were always Redux (great unit choice and empire building), XL3-Tyberius (upgraded vanilla), WesMod (more challenge) and BKB (very hard, but doesn't work/install right).

So I tried Redux 1007-open Beta with my favorite faction the Norse. Sadly after a few turns i tried to invade Norway and get these rebels out of there and get some cash, but "freeze" (just like outside my house this morning, but without the snow) towards the next turn.
I started a new Norse campaign and up till now no problems.

I was gonna save the savegame, but it got copied over after i started my new campaign (stupid, stupid).

I actually noticed a probably other mistake:
an upgrade to Castle would be prerequisite (whatever that word means) to Hall of Kings, but i got that already after upgrade to Keep1.

Btw. playing Redux again already is a fun adventure. It fits exactly what i like in a game. So many smart changes from the original game. You should create a MTW2-Kingdoms mod. Still the best TW game i've played with many great mods. But i appreciate your dedication to MTW. It still is a fun game.

[William the Silent]

Played some more Norse today and i noticed some things.
- Every time i attack the Saracens (by sea) they become my enemy, but 1 or more turns later they are all at once neutral again.
- Saracens and Moors have cavalry and infantry units of 200 men, while i as the Norse have units of cavalry and infantry of 80 men. How am i supposed to beat them?
- No additional princesses for the Norse.
- No emissaries (= no bribes, no peace deals, etc.)
- As the Norse it's hard to generate much money, but the moslim factions keep building expensive armies and fleets all over the place.
I can handle the enemy fleets, but i seem to have no chance of winning another battle after i fight one because it costs a lot of money to rebuilt.

Just some things i noticed. Maybe it's beatable through certain strategy, but i didn't find it yet. Upgrading my castles also doesn't seem to bring me bigger or better units to defeat the numerical superior enemy and takes a lot of time.

Maybe Norse was meant to be AI faction originally.

[Axalon]

Merry Christmas everyone, and thanks for posting guys. I'll start with Williams posts....

I actually noticed a probably other mistake: an upgrade to Castle would be prerequisite (whatever that word means) to Hall of Kings, but i got that already after upgrade to Keep1.

Not a mistake, its just (my) design to make sure the AI play (proper) ball and performs (as expected) with certain key-buildings. Anyways, it's good that you clearly try to be vigilant on such stuff.

Btw. playing Redux again already is a fun adventure. It fits exactly what i like in a game. So many smart changes from the original game. You should create a MTW2-Kingdoms mod. Still the best TW game i've played with many great mods. But i appreciate your dedication to MTW. It still is a fun game.

Well, thanks... Personally I like MTW1 more and thus that is the game I do work on...

Played some more Norse today and i noticed some things.

- Every time i attack the Saracens (by sea) they become my enemy, but 1 or more turns later they are all at once neutral again.

This is (most likely) a matter of having bordering provinces - if there are none, whatever war will automatically end the next turn or so... Its an engine thing...

- Saracens and Moors have cavalry and infantry units of 200 men, while i as the Norse have units of cavalry and infantry of 80 men. How am i supposed to beat them?

While not a given, it is still very possible to beat them - even at veteran difficulty - it is a matter of used tactics, formations and armybuild. This circumstance very much includes the norse units. I can beat all saracen infantry with the norse counterpart, hence it is obviously possible to do so. Try some solo battles 1vs1 and train some...

Other then that... Norse players will benefit from recruiting other kinds of (non-norse) units - at least to a degree. Personally I would go for Lithuanian infantry, and they should be able to provide you with the support you seemingly need against muslim forces. And, I would conquer my way to Suzdal and then Khazar - THEN deal with the Saracens (in this given case)... Also, try to upgrade your units and build up some battle-experienced Norse units - they will be very effective against any infantry. The higher valor the better...

- No additional princesses for the Norse.

Its an V.2.01-engine thing... If you want Norse spawning princesses, the only alternative is to play V1.1 OR mod the game so you can buy them via some building... Say 800-1000 florins per princess or something... They will start as 1 Year old this way - and no - there are no way around that. Its an engine-thing...

- No emissaries (= no bribes, no peace deals, etc.)

It is by deliberate design... Norse don't bribe or do diplmacy (willingly anyhow)... If that is what you want to do, play some other faction in Redux instead.

- As the Norse it's hard to generate much money, but the moslim factions keep building expensive armies and fleets all over the place.

In short while the Muslim-factions can initially afford to spawn great quantity, the Norse will have too rely on quality... This by design, at least in regards to units...

I can handle the enemy fleets, but i seem to have no chance of winning another battle after i fight one because it costs a lot of money to rebuilt.

Yeah, that you should, as your (Norse) ships are both cheaper and easier to build (and to maintain as well)...

Just some things i noticed. Maybe it's beatable through certain strategy, but i didn't find it yet. Upgrading my castles also doesn't seem to bring me bigger or better units to defeat the numerical superior enemy and takes a lot of time.

Yes, that would probably be it. Redux is (as far as i can tell) the hardest MTW-version publicly available (thus far), its not as easy as say XL or something. Another possible alternative for you would be to lower your difficulty setting, if you have problems managing/surviving, that is...

Overall, the Norse as a faction is supposed to deliver a clearly different and separate experience in relation to any regular factions in Redux. It is designed that way. The Norse has different units, agents and tech - indeed their circumstances and the overall experience it generates deviates clearly from essentially everything else (faction-wise) in Redux. To me, that is a good thing (and thus I am unlikely to change it).

Maybe Norse was meant to be AI faction originally.

Nope, they were meant to be an optional faction (since day 1) for anyone who wanted to play them besides the regular factions of Redux.

Regardless William, I appreciate all your input and effort here, I invite both you and others
to do it some more here. Surely, this place would be better for it, should it happen.


***

Greetings Axalon
You don't have to take it litherally. I just looked at the map and saw no faction gets the whole of the map except for your territories as it used to do in old Medieval. Which usually was the Almohads, in my campaings at least.
It was only an slight comment, nothing else...

Alright, have it your way... I won't take your (previous) post seriously, as requested. ...On general terms, its a common mistake and assumption that Redux would be highly similar to raw MTW in general - including the experience or circumstances it provides. It's not. Notions like that are usually forwarded by people who have NOT played any Redux - while they still somehow afford themselves to make assumptions about it all the same.

The reality is that Redux has less in common with raw MTW then most (public) work done for MTW to date (as far as I can tell). That to such an degree that it would probably warrant to talk about it as a separate game altogether, or at least an extremely deviant one. After all, it is not the same or even similar in terms of game experience or general circumstances generated. Anyone can verify that by comparing Redux and raw MTW first hand, at will.


***

Here you go:

GPU: AMD Radeon R7 250 2GB
CPU: AMD FX 8320 3.5 GHz 8 Core
***
The drivers are up to date...

Thanks man, perhaps someone might find use of this intel, one of these days.

- A

[William the Silent]

I have another one:
It's a while ago so I cannot exactly remember.
But playing the Novgorod (I believe) you have the first 3 levels of (I believe) keep: I, II, III
If I right click on one I get CTD.
On the next level up it's normal.

[William the Silent]

Btw. Does the Golden Horde show up in your game?

[Axalon]

Hey William, and thanks for reporting in your stuff...

***

I have another one:
It's a while ago so I cannot exactly remember.
But playing the Novgorod (I believe) you have the first 3 levels of (I believe) keep: I, II, III
If I right click on one I get CTD.
On the next level up it's normal.

I have checked all the relevant files, and they are all there... I have checked it from fort I all the way up to castle I (as the Russians), right-clicking like crazy. Its all there, it all works on the V.2.01 PE-edition (the Steam version). Thus, I can't replicate what you are talking about here... As a result, I have no idea how you somehow managed to get a CTD there. Corrupt save perhaps? I think that is the most likely explanation (with the info available to me at this point). The MTW-engine sure has a long history of generating corrupt saves.

Btw. Does the Golden Horde show up in your game?

Nope, the that function has gone to the Lithuanians in Redux. If they are wiped out before 1230, they (the Lithuanians) will come back in similar fashion (as the traditional horde). Otherwise nothing will happen. When and if the Lithuanians arrive, you will get a message that reads:

"The Lithuanians have allied themselves to a new and powerful force in the east; it is known as the Golden Horde. It
is rumoured that the horde dominates all land to legendary Cathay; with such an ally the Lithuanians have found a
renewed strength."

- A

[William the Silent]

I'll try a new campaign with Russia to check it out.

[William the Silent]

Indeed it only happens on my saved russians campaign.

And to not have all my hard empire building work go to waste, I'll have to keep the Lithaunians alive till 1230, I know now.

I remember, I once played Medmod-IV. I built this wonderful great peaceful Kievian Empire for hours and hours. Then comes New Year 1230.
I think more then 10 full stacks of mean ugly peace & love hating Horde showed up in the east of my great Empire. I still tried to assassinate the Kahn but to no succes. My Empire was done.

XL Golden Horde is not that bad. You can stop them with armoured spearman and 3 units of pavise arbalester. Kill the general from long distance.

[Macsen Rufus]

Very late arriving at the Redux party, but as I've been saying for months I'd give Redux a try, I can announce I finally got around to it. Just running an English campaign for my 'learning game', and there's still a lot I need to learn about the mod. It's very lush visually, I'm enjoying the unit rosters available, and the hard, slow economic development does make a change from vanilla.

Anyway, I've some stuff for the Org's bug thread, so I'll pop over there next - and there may be a solution to William the Silent's 'right-click-on-a-castle' crash.

And of course, have added some shiny for the humungous amount of work in this mod

[William the Silent]

Serbia has no armourer.

I guess that's meant to be like that

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Ηey Ax. What's up ?
Really good to see this one is still active. Keep it up !!!

[Leonardo]

I have another one:
It's a while ago so I cannot exactly remember.
But playing the Novgorod (I believe) you have the first 3 levels of (I believe) keep: I, II, III
If I right click on one I get CTD.
On the next level up it's normal.

No, it can't be a keep at level three, instead it's the Horse Breeders Guild building at least that's what it is in vanilla. What level of the keep that exist for the Novgorod's is the main fort plus one improvement (I don't remember what it's called).

Also, in vanilla the Novgorods is unplayble in the early era.

[Argden]

Hello

I have problem to start the game.
I have installed MTW 1 and then copied Redux files to MTW folder. When I am starting the campaign i can't see any period to choose, everything is ok but no campaign to select.
Can you help me to solve this problem?

[Axalon]

Hello and thanks everyone for posting... I'll start with Argden's post first...

I have problem to start the game.
I have installed MTW 1 and then copied Redux files to MTW folder. When I am starting the campaign i can't see any period to choose, everything is ok but no campaign to select.
Can you help me to solve this problem?

My guess is that the install probably got screwed up somehow - probably that you placed redux-files in the wrong folder somewhere somehow - its a common mistake, made by many. However, I am (currently) provided too little information here to actually tell for sure what exactly was screwed up in the install process. Once I have enough (and exact) information given here - I probably could help you. The fact that you can't see any "periods" like "RX-classic" and so forth is a receipt that everything is not OK with the install.

My advice... Re-install everything and now make 100% sure you copy-paste-replace all the old files with the new ones (provided) - this at the right folder/place - as in the folder where the Medieval_TW.EXE is located. AND, if you are using any V.2.01/steam somehow, then you ALSO must install the provided VI/V.2.01-upgrade (which you install last BTW).

In short.... Re-read all the provided instructions and then make sure you follow them to the letter, make certain that you know (or find out) exactly in which folder MTW1 is installed. If you do - there should be zero problems, and you will then (most likely) be playing Redux in no time.

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Serbia has no armourer.

I guess that's meant to be like that

Hi William... Nah it is not meant to be that. It is an a confirmed bug/error (unintentionally made by me). Its all further explained in the Org Debug-thread, found here! BTW, I did create a hotfix for that stuff and you folks can download that in the relevant post (#143) over there too.

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Very late arriving at the Redux party, but as I've been saying for months I'd give Redux a try, I can announce I finally got around to it. Just running an English campaign for my 'learning game', and there's still a lot I need to learn about the mod. It's very lush visually, I'm enjoying the unit rosters available, and the hard, slow economic development does make a change from vanilla.

Well Mac, you are all the same more then welcome to the crowd of Redux-players. As a fellow modder, I am naturally interested in your input and opinions on all things Redux. I imagine that you have played quite a bit more since you actually wrote your post - and for the record, I'll be happy to read some more remarks from you on that note - if you feel like posting some. Feedback and opinions - regardless the kind - are obviously better then none at all. And they also - inevitably - play a part and lay the foundation for making Redux better somehow, long term. That said... Hopefully Redux somehow ended up as interesting and entertaining experience for you - enough to encourage a return for some more RX-adventures and campaigns in the future.

...have added some shiny for the humungous amount of work in this mod

As that being the only currency of appreciation we got here (at the TWC), I am happy to collect any such fluff I can get. Any half-sane modder would, I imagine. All the same, thanks.

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Ηey Ax. What's up ?
Really good to see this one is still active. Keep it up !!!

I try, I try... Thanks for posting man (BTW, congrats to your promotion)...

***


Anything else on or about Redux folks, this is the place to post...

- A

[Axalon]

BTW folks,

The RXB1007 have managed to generate more then 1000 downloads! This despite my long absence here! I am obviously very happy about that. Redux is actually closing in on 10 freaking years since its first public release, and the base game - raw MTW - is soon 16 years old and this stuff (and this thread) is still around! Its all just amazing to me....

- A

[kalam8]

BTW folks,

The RXB1007 have managed to generate more then 1000 downloads! This despite my long absence here! I am obviously very happy about that. Redux is actually closing in on 10 freaking years since its first public release, and the base game - raw MTW - is soon 16 years old and this stuff (and this thread) is still around! Its all just amazing to me....

- A

So I happened to get my hands on an ancient laptop (one that have obsolete graphic device .ie. zero CTD issue) and I immediately knew what I should do with it Fired up the vanilla M1TW, the map was somewhat pale and bored, so I knew it's time for mods which I expect will breathe something new into this nostalgic game. This mod, I have to say, surprises me quite a lot. Beautiful, vibrant map, huge improvement over vanilla pale color. New portraits. Solid AI behavior at-a-glance. It seems I can't come back to the vanilla anymore. Beautiful mod, Axalon!


After spending about 2 weeks playing, in Heartland and RX-classic, Veteran difficulty, and as Saccaren and Aragonese (unlocked), here are my 2 cents:


AI: in Heartland mode, the AI refrains from waging war or having any aggressive behaviors. The whole map reaches a total peace which prolongs for several hundred turns (As Sacaren, I waited until 1200, not a single war was waged between AI factions or AI vs player). In Classic mode, AI is just a bit more agressive and wars between factions are fought here and there; however, the general status quo is everyone is good neighbor and ally. Overally, I highly recommend this AI as every diplomatic response must be considered carefully so as not to result in attacking allies factions later (and lower king's influence consequently). However, I do expect more short border disputes (and promtly ceasefire) between factions of different religions.

Bug: Nonplayable Factions (like Aragonese) - if got unlocked via CampMap/Startpos/textfile.txt - are very prone to CTD in Heartland mode at a specific year.

Rebel: There should be a limit on what type of units the Rebel can recruit when the outcry happens in a province depending on what type of building it has in that year. Currrently, the Rebel recruits their army to counter what units that player has despite the fact that I destroyed every military facilities after the province had been conquered. It came to a ridiculous point when the Rebel had (Feudal Footknight + Feudal Archer, these are superior mid-tier units) to counter my (Royal Knight + Heavy Crossbowmen, somewhat inferior mid-tiers). Mind you, the province only had Watch Tower and 20% Agriculture. If I decide to pillage the province buildings, at my own cost of having to rebuild the town later, then the Rebel should only have access to lowest tier units (Slave militia, basic archer and mercenary). To compensate for this limit, the Rebel peasants can have a full stack army of these units. Sound fair enough!

Sea regions: the sea is somehow too small and the Islam can dominate the whole trade route fairly quickly. I suggest the sea should be fragmented more into smaller regions, say, the sea between Sicily and Africa can be divided into 3 different waters: Italian coastal water, Deep sea, and African coastal water. This way, it takes more time to dominate the sea (as the number of water region increases) and the Islam Galley's will have hard time fighting in Deep sea regions.

That's it for now. Time to fight for the King's supremacy

[Axalon]

Hi Kalam, thanks for your post and input here. Let's dive right into it...

... This mod, I have to say, surprises me quite a lot. Beautiful, vibrant map, huge improvement over vanilla pale color. New portraits. Solid AI behavior at-a-glance. It seems I can't come back to the vanilla anymore. Beautiful mod, Axalon!

Obviously, I am glad that you (and others) like (and play) Redux. There have been a tons of work to make everything happen (like the portraits, for instance) or getting the look I wanted (again, I wanted the portraits to look a certain way). All this within the given and possible framework of the game and engine. I have done (and changed) most things I wanted to do, by now. The fact that I work with both 1.1 and 2.01-versions complicates and limit my options as well. There are a few things left to do, but "not much" at this point. ...Then you get some new ideas out of nowhere - and the "to do list" grows yet again. I have been working with Redux back and forth for almost 12 years by now. All the time, still seeing potential in this game! More then anything Redux is about increased complexity, fighting battles and offering more diverse circumstances.

AI: in Heartland mode, the AI refrains from waging war or having any aggressive behaviors. The whole map reaches a total peace which prolongs for several hundred turns (As Sacaren, I waited until 1200, not a single war was waged between AI factions or AI vs player).

There are many factors involved in this... For starters, the AI tries to be cautious in Redux, and to secure its provinces, before it expands further. Its also a matter of resources, opportunity and tempting "easy victories". If the AI-faction sees little of that - along its borders - it is unlikely to attack or declare war on anybody - Player or otherwise. Furthermore, MTW1 is not really crafted to cope with something like Heartland-mode - this is especially visible in 2.01-versions, performance wise it is usually better in 1.1. The AI is more aggressive in 1.1.

I am not saying that it is/was intended that we should have extreme periods of peace in Redux - its not - but I am saying that it can happen depending on the given and various circumstances we find within each individual campaign. If you are not aggressive as the player - then chances for war decreases all over, since you are not helping in "stirring the pot" so to speak. My designs basically assumes that you do, or want too... Think of the AI as a cautious coward that don't like to take chances - usually. This is especially visible in "Heartland" and somewhat to a lesser degree in Supremacy-mode.

However, I do expect more short border disputes (and promtly ceasefire) between factions of different religions.

Even if I wanted to do such a thing, there are no serious parameters or tools for creating, shaping or influencing such specific events/scenarios in MTW1. The closest you will get to this is RX-classic, that scenario have conflicts built in by design. See bonus material, design-folder and "MTW-Redux_ConflictGrid.txt"...

Bug: Nonplayable Factions (like Aragonese) - if got unlocked via CampMap/Startpos/textfile.txt - are very prone to CTD in Heartland mode at a specific year.

Umm, what year would that be? Also, are you sure its not just a corrupted save? ...?... The MTW-engine likes to generate these left and right, you know...

Rebel: There should be a limit on what type of units the Rebel can recruit when the outcry happens in a province depending on what type of building it has in that year. ... ... ...

Actually, they (the rebels) usually do have just that... Its hard to talk about campaigns universally here, as Redux is typically very diverse and different from game to game. It makes me wonder what kind of uprising/rebelion it was? Anyways, the rebels can't recruit/build new units if there is no infrastructure in the province. And the infrastructure usually do influence what kind of units the rebels have access too in rebellions. It seems a bit odd the whole thing, then again I don't have all the details and thus I can't provide solid answers due to the fact.

On general terms, rebels are much tougher in Redux then they ever was in the raw MTW - its not something related to that somehow? ...?...

Sea regions: the sea is somehow too small and the Islam can dominate the whole trade route fairly quickly. I suggest the sea should be fragmented more into smaller regions, say, the sea between Sicily and Africa can be divided into 3 different waters: Italian coastal water, Deep sea, and African coastal water. This way, it takes more time to dominate the sea (as the number of water region increases) and the Islam Galley's will have hard time fighting in Deep sea regions.

There are many factors and details at play here... For starters, the Saracens are without a doubt the easiest and most secure faction there is in Redux. Meaning they can secure their borders and focus on "build up" in ways few other factions can. Furthermore, as a player, you have the option to build poor and cheap ships like "tradegalleys" - the AI does not have that option. So its only a problem, if the Saracens are under player supervision. The Saracen-AI only builds "Regular Galleys" or above which is a lot harder and expensive to do. That said...

I have also by design relocated sea-regions from the Mediterranean to other places, where I felt they were more needed. I will not reverse that. And, naval-AI is virtually hopeless to control properly - believe me I have tried to do it for years and I have yet succeed with that. There are no true parameters to work with on that. Land-AI is a different story, as that CAN be influenced and changed in various ways....

***


Alright, that's all I got for you this time. Feel free to post some more (here), if you like.

- A

[Axalon]

Folks, I have created a new hotfix for RXB1007 - this one deals with two "new" problems I found.

1. It improves camp-map AI-performance in general.
2. It corrects various errors on costs for several buildings/tech.

Both previous hotfixes 1 and 2, are also included for good measure and player-convenience. I have
attached the hotfix3 to this very post. Download and apply it for a better game-experience today!

- A

[Axalon]

2000+ Downloads!

As of this week the RXB1007 managed to reach 2000+ downloads! Obviously this is good news for Redux on general terms, as it definitely shows that this mod still generates much interest and players after all these years (10 in fact!). Typically, I consider any release (Redux or otherwise) that manage to go north of 500+ downloads to be a success far and well beyond rational expectations - that for any material - but especially so for all stuff that does depend on/apply to ancient/old games - such as MTW. So these news/statistics are welcome yet unexpected success for the RXB1007 as such, but also for the Redux-project in general. Obviously I am very happy about all this stuff...


Any comments/thoughts on all this?

- A