Need help surviving with the WRE

[Iberus_generalis]

Im in need of urgent help with the WRE, can anyone give me an hint on what works for you to hold on to italy and then expand from there? cuz its the 3rd campaign i start with them but i get cornered by the Ostrogoths to the east, and by the visigoths to the west, and i get burned down, although posing an heroic albeit desperate resistance to their advance, within 20 years into the campaign. i always try to get sicily and corsica and sardinia back from the vandals, but i cant survive for long after that. i get eaten alive by them Goth dudes=S i even try to get help from the ERE and the roman rebels but they always deny me help.
can anyone point me to their strategy to survive as the WRE?

Im not used to be beaten by the RTW AI, and this is pissing me off. Im playing in VH/VH though

[Riothamus]

Im in need of urgent help with the WRE, can anyone give me an hint on what works for you to hold on to italy and then expand from there? cuz its the 3rd campaign i start with them but i get cornered by the Ostrogoths to the east, and by the visigoths to the west, and i get burned down, although posing an heroic albeit desperate resistance to their advance, within 20 years into the campaign. i always try to get sicily and corsica and sardinia back from the vandals, but i cant survive for long after that. i get eaten alive by them Goth dudes=S i even try to get help from the ERE and the roman rebels but they always deny me help.
can anyone point me to their strategy to survive as the WRE?

Im not used to be beaten by the RTW AI, and this is pissing me off. Im playing in VH/VH though

Hi Iberus_generalis,
Hmmm.. I always play a mod VH/VH to see if it will really challenge me. If I get my head handed to me then I'm hooked. So I can understand why you would want to do so. lol Anyway if your going to play the WRE on VH then there will be some trial and error
- understand the army units costs..maintaining an army is much more expensive then creating one
- use the foederati they are cheaper, effective and were used historically
- knock out one of those powerful factions at the very start: show that the wre is back and be brutal if need be..your fighting for survival and this may be necessary.
-don't spread to quickly. after conquering a region build it up...remember capital cities are rich but can be a real problem to hold if you conquer a foreign one but they will provide important econ.

Just a few things hopefully helpful..maybe others will chide in. gl

[Iberus_generalis]

my problem is really the 463 campaign. i try to get the ostrogoths to capitalize, but i get the visigoths chewing me none stop at arles, then at mediolanum, and soon my economy is in the sewers...and i capitalize. i've tryed everything...forts, river guards...simply i cant hold out on two fronts even with federated troops...

[Riothamus]

my problem is really the 463 campaign. i try to get the ostrogoths to capitalize, but i get the visigoths chewing me none stop at arles, then at mediolanum, and soon my economy is in the sewers...and i capitalize. i've tryed everything...forts, river guards...simply i cant hold out on two fronts even with federated troops...

:hmmm:VH/VH still? try on a lesser setting? maybe get used to the econ a bit? another thing to look out for are your generals..they are very expensive and if you adopt them early into your royal family they will drag ur econ down. Were you able to defeat the Ostrogoths?

[Riothamus]

:hmmm:VH/VH still? try on a lesser setting? maybe get used to the econ a bit? another thing to look out for are your generals..they are very expensive and if you adopt them early into your royal family they will drag ur econ down. Were you able to defeat the Ostrogoths?

Just to add I'm playing a campaign on VH/VH I transformed the WRE army into very few lego and many foederati troops. I didn't disband the troops..just transformed it for the time being to a lighter less expensive army. I have early on a full stack for the east and one for the west boarders and a full stack of a bit more heavier troops under Recimer capturing the Islands held by the Vandals..Sardinia and moving downwards to invade North Africa. I have some reserve heavy lego troops in Ravenna. My Income is at 25.000 have build some buildings and still climbing only have lighter armed troops on the fringes. Its very early just 12 turns in but creating a core foundation to stay above water...Ostrogoths and Visigoths thus far ask for map and trade rights..not adopted generals yet.

[Iberus_generalis]

i tend to use legio palatinae full stacks to take care of the easterngoths...and it works without that many casualties...but the visigoths are a diferent matter....their elite troops cut through my formations like butter=P
my problem is that i prefer legio and heavy roman troops to get my footing on conquest...and go into the red fast, needing a lot of time to get back on my feet economically later. I dont use generals much.

[margio]

Hi Iberus_generalis,
I love too have full staks harmy made by legio palatinae, legio lanciarii and comitatenses, but they are an heavy and continuous debit for your economy, especially to upkeep them at the beginning. If you prefer Roman only armies, Limitanei can be a good and useful choice: they are less strong, but less expensive to enlist and upkeep! Therefore if I remember well (I am playing 434AD campaign) in Rome or Ravenna you should have smith_workshop (maybe weapons_chamber already) where you can upgrade your Limitanei and/or troops: it’s a cost but your starting armies will be harder to beat …
At the beginning I "micro managed" my towns building for money and happiness alternatively (in Rio mods to amuse your people it’s a really hard task…) for some turns while enlisting garrisons and starting to slowly build up the first army. Burials, Roads, Markets, Ports, Postribulum, Metal and Luxury Tradings, Statue, Food Trade, Church, Mines (not in this order and taking care of economic and military features of the towns…) and the Romanization Buildings (but later…): not exciting at the beginning, but useful for the future to have elite legions at your command.
By the way for fighting legions (but useful for towns too), do you employ sagittarii and/or equites sagittarii?
I use 3/4 units of equites sagittarii (upgraded) deployed at the beginning of your battle field area with mantain distance command able; infantry is deployed far away and ready to fire javelins/pilums with at least other two Sagittarii units at the wings behind the infantry line and behind them units with the higher attack factor available. At the beginning I don’t use cavalry units, but only generals. As Rio said generals are very expensive, so I use them as cavalry units instead as towns’ governors, accepting only generals with at least one or two points for every of their features (anyway something to increase numbers of men of general units should be provided …).
I’m not Alexander, Hannibal, Scipio or Ceasar, Napoleon… but this battle deployment works for me…

ayeaye Sir

[Riothamus]

Hi Iberus_generalis,
I love too have full staks harmy made by legio palatinae, legio lanciarii and comitatenses, but they are an heavy and continuous debit for your economy, especially to upkeep them at the beginning. If you prefer Roman only armies, Limitanei can be a good and useful choice: they are less strong, but less expensive to enlist and upkeep! Therefore if I remember well (I am playing 434AD campaign) in Rome or Ravenna you should have smith_workshop (maybe weapons_chamber already) where you can upgrade your Limitanei and/or troops: it’s a cost but your starting armies will be harder to beat …
ayeaye Sir

Very true...

Hi Iberus_generalis,
At the beginning I "micro managed" my towns building for money and happiness alternatively (in Rio mods to amuse your people it’s a really hard task…) for some turns while enlisting garrisons and starting to slowly build up the first army. Burials, Roads, Markets, Ports, Postribulum, Metal and Luxury Tradings, Statue, Food Trade, Church, Mines (not in this order and taking care of economic and military features of the towns…) and the Romanization Buildings (but later…): not exciting at the beginning, but useful for the future to have elite legions at your command.


ayeaye Sir

This is a great point Margio. the game needs strict micro managing at the start

H
I’m not Alexander, Hannibal, Scipio or Ceasar, Napoleon… but this battle deployment works for me…

ayeaye Sir

Sound like a the successful practical Roman generals of old to me

Well said margio

[Riothamus]

Just wanted to also point out playing battles on VH is extremely difficult. I don't recommend it. The AI gets major bonuses and will seem superior. If playing on VH campaign playing on VH battles is a very, very difficult game to play as the WRE in 463AD

MY VH/VH Campaign
Had captured Carthage their capital but couldn't subdue in and lost my entire army including the emphasis general Ricimer.
At war in major battles with the Goths

[Aenima]

i find fighting against the ostrogoths a major challenge as well. at the moment im managing to hold onto my coastal cities but trying to get another army together to take the fight to them is difficult with finances and all. as it is i sent two of my generals on a 'suicide run' by putting them on a ship and having them harass the eastern roman cities on the western greek coast. so far it's work as they're diverting troops to those two generals (no other units) and the constant defeats keep the bodyguards low enough for me to get by.

as for the actual fighting, i have to jump on the band wagon and advise you to use foederati more. as theyre cheaper than roman units but still strong enough to put up a good fight. the fact im playing on h/h may also make a difference, but to each his own. good luck against zose nasty germans , let us know how it goes

[Riothamus]

i find fighting against the ostrogoths a major challenge as well. at the moment im managing to hold onto my coastal cities but trying to get another army together to take the fight to them is difficult with finances and all. as it is i sent two of my generals on a 'suicide run' by putting them on a ship and having them harass the eastern roman cities on the western greek coast. so far it's work as they're diverting troops to those two generals (no other units) and the constant defeats keep the bodyguards low enough for me to get by.

as for the actual fighting, i have to jump on the band wagon and advise you to use foederati more. as theyre cheaper than roman units but still strong enough to put up a good fight. the fact im playing on h/h may also make a difference, but to each his own. good luck against zose nasty germans , let us know how it goes

Gl here Aenima. It is very difficult top play the wre especially on the harder levels. My campaign started to crumble around 490 ish as the Ostrogoth's. Franks, and, Visigoths all came at me at once. If I had been able to first conquer all of Vandal North Africa, I may have been strong enough to hold em all off but was a little late in sweeping down there. I started off by using the Foederati but as I got my econ going I began to add the Roman heavy infantry and cavalry. Just not fast enough lol...let me know how it goes

[Aenima]

Gl here Aenima. It is very difficult top play the wre especially on the harder levels. My campaign started to crumble around 490 ish as the Ostrogoth's. Franks, and, Visigoths all came at me at once. If I had been able to first conquer all of Vandal North Africa, I may have been strong enough to hold em all off but was a little late in sweeping down there. I started off by using the Foederati but as I got my econ going I began to add the Roman heavy infantry and cavalry. Just not fast enough lol...let me know how it goes

cheers man, i totally know what you mean about using foederati and getting more cash. i kept restarting the campaign cos i kept going into the red but in my most recent one ive been using 3/4 foederati in my armies and the economy is booming. ive only gained sicily, corsica and sardinia and even managed to lose the coastal city to the ERE but im still on 30-40 k a turn and have well over 100k in my treasury, even with every city literally fully filled up on buildings. its mad man the franks and the goths (both tribes) are getting scarily strong and are on my doorstep. if it gets hectic enough ill post up a screen to show you how its all going.

[Riothamus]

cheers man, i totally know what you mean about using foederati and getting more cash. i kept restarting the campaign cos i kept going into the red but in my most recent one ive been using 3/4 foederati in my armies and the economy is booming. ive only gained sicily, corsica and sardinia and even managed to lose the coastal city to the ERE but im still on 30-40 k a turn and have well over 100k in my treasury, even with every city literally fully filled up on buildings. its mad man the franks and the goths (both tribes) are getting scarily strong and are on my doorstep. if it gets hectic enough ill post up a screen to show you how its all going.

Love to see a screenie and see how ur campaign goes gl

[UBAH]

i tend to use legio palatinae

I advise you to switch to legio comitatenses - things should get better.
This unit is $150 per turn cheaper. It has 20 more soldiers. It has two points higher defence. And, most important, legio comitatenses posess shield wall ability - must have for the unit to be used as backbone of your battleline. Unit without this ability (legio palatinae, legio lanciarii, pseudo comitatenses, limitanei, etc) hopelessly suck in melee combat against any serious opponent.

[Iberus_generalis]

meh=P i really dont like the shield wall ability=P although i must use it=)

[Aenima]

meh=P i really dont like the shield wall ability=P although i must use it=)

same, i prefer to have a broader front line, although i suppose that might explain why my boys tend to get minced...

on a different note, can anyone offer some tips for playing as the WRE on the 434 ad campaign? even though you start with more land than in the later campaign its incredibly difficult to keep the finances in the clear and im confused as to what to do. any ideas would be great! cheers

[Riothamus]

same, i prefer to have a broader front line, although i suppose that might explain why my boys tend to get minced...

on a different note, can anyone offer some tips for playing as the WRE on the 434 ad campaign? even though you start with more land than in the later campaign its incredibly difficult to keep the finances in the clear and im confused as to what to do. any ideas would be great! cheers

A few mini points that may help ya
- use your cheaper foederati at first. They are fairly effective and cheap but as your econ grows then you will definitely need your very best infantry to continue expanding and fighting the very best the barbarians have.

-Have an expanding objective. I think recapturing North Africa or as in the 434 AD campaign, defending it and recapturing it, is a good objective that will allow you then to prosper and build better efficient armies to defend and Return to Roman Glory

-at the start monitor your warlord costs. They are extremely expensive to maintain

Gl

[Aenima]

A few mini points that may help ya
- use your cheaper foederati at first. They are fairly effective and cheap but as your econ grows then you will definitely need your very best infantry to continue expanding and fighting the very best the barbarians have.

-Have an expanding objective. I think recapturing North Africa or as in the 434 AD campaign, defending it and recapturing it, is a good objective that will allow you then to prosper and build better efficient armies to defend and Return to Roman Glory

-at the start monitor your warlord costs. They are extremely expensive to maintain

Gl

cheers, all good points and ill definitely apply them to my campaign. Atm the vandals have taken all african cities but carthage, which is currently being attacked (really can't be bothered to fight it though, and i KNOW the computer will lose an auto_calc) but at the moment ive got two armies converging on spain. So far the only city the goths have left there is 'caesar augusta' and my two armies are fully retrained and on the way to do damage. on a side note, does IBFD still have the 'horde' ability where if i defeat a barbarian factions last city theyll spawn stacks? i hope not but im not sure. cheers again

[seriousbusiness]

It's a great challenge. If you're having problems and aren't enjoying it, simply lower the campaign difficulty (maybe to medium, hard isn't that bad)

[legio_XX]

RIO you should have a surviving as the west roman empire main thred yaknow with some pointers lol

!oh i beat the game on h/h!! thats yaya for me and im moving on to hv/h i dont like very hard battles cuz my legions fall prey to the lowest level barbarians it seems cheep!:hmmm: