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Thread: MAP discussion

  1. #41
    Big Pacha's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Too bad but very understandable considering the amount (the mountain!) of your contributions Nakharar. Anyway... did you guys find a mapper to finish the job?






  2. #42
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    We should look for a new mapper.
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  3. #43

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Hello everybody!
    Great idea with this timeframe!
    I would like to see a bit more from the West, perhaps some parts of Dalmatia covered with croats (rebels or even a faction), they say that the croats migrated from the north of Carpathians to the Dinaric Alps and to parts of Pannonian reagion - this was happening during your timeframe, maybe you can simulate this by making croats spaning like a horde and migrate in exactly those regions.
    Also I would like to see more regions of the avar empire, they were very powerful and fearless in those times (I hope you won't neglect these facts and make this mode just exclusive for bulgarian faction).
    Arab invasion over ERE is a very good idea. Good luck guys !

  4. #44
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    The idea is interesting. We're very small team and don't have a capacity to add more factions in the mod.
    But if we receive some real help - not only in form of research, but with ready roster, coding/scripting & mapping - we could think to expand a little map and add a new faction.
    I don't know to exist mod with Croatian faction suitable for the time frame, from which we can borrow Croatian roster.
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  5. #45

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by alien_t View Post
    The idea is interesting. We're very small team and don't have a capacity to add more factions in the mod.
    But if we receive some real help - not only in form of research, but with ready roster, coding/scripting & mapping - we could think to expand a little map and add a new faction.
    I don't know to exist mod with Croatian faction suitable for the time frame, from which we can borrow Croatian roster.

    I think you can use slavic units for begging, I observed that you have plenty of them. After all, Croats are from a big slavic familly. There is a problem with researching too, the history doesn't provide us with much informations about early Croats, but we know for sure that they migrated under Croatians princes in those regions.

  6. #46
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    I'm glad to announce that we have found a new mapper - elebar
    Welcome in the team friend.

    We need a research info about the map - towns, climates, mountains, rivers, etc... from the period 700-900(or as close as possible).
    Something like that will be very useful & helpful for as. Thank you in advance.

    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  7. #47
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Welcome to the team, elebar!

  8. #48

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Thanks for the opportunity, I really look forward to work with you guys. I will start with the heights map to include more land to the east. And with some luck on Moday we could see some results, of course at this stage we will be testing coastlines pretty much.

    For testing purposes, I will make 7 regions, one for each of the factions and rebels intended for the mod. That is, of course, just to get things moving while the actual regions are defined.

  9. #49
    Vojdoo's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: MAP discussion


  10. #50
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Thank you.
    The mod starts a litle bit earlier (~700 AD), but we could use the map when we place major towns/castles.
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  11. #51
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    I guess we should look for a new mapper...
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  12. #52
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    You could have part or whole of TGC map when it will be copleted...

    The map is so huge that even part of it can suport any mod...
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; June 16, 2009 at 05:40 AM.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  13. #53
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Thank you very much, we appreciate that.
    We need actually even the smaller map - without Italy, but with Crimean.

    Now we will have to wait only and for the proper Byz. roster I guess that.
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  14. #54
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by alien_t View Post
    Thank you very much, we appreciate that.
    We need actually even the smaller map - without Italy, but with Crimean.

    Now we will have to wait only and for the proper Byz. roster I guess that.
    Yes this will be our last and most large unit roster...
    Slash5 has been motivated to start it in the near future...
    It will be the larger unit roster because half of the units that will start the game will change via a army reform after 50 years!!!
    As for the map ...
    When it will be ready you can choose a part of it and cut it from the rest...
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  15. #55

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Totally bogus map. Having rampaging hordes in an area does not give you a claim to it. All of Bulgaria's "conquests" were quickly undone to the point where they were subjugated again. If all the little people groups in the Balkans had as much territory as they all claim, the Balkans would its own continent.

  16. #56

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Hey Jimbo, did you just make a profile today to go around insulting modders?

    Like Caesar Clivus said, feel free to make a better one. I'm sure we'll all be really impressed by your work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #57

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    What a stupid argument. Make your own. Blah Blah Blah. I am not putting out work for the public, you are. I can criticize it then. Don't want it criticized-keep it to yourself.

  18. #58
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJones View Post
    Totally bogus map. Having rampaging hordes in an area does not give you a claim to it. All of Bulgaria's "conquests" were quickly undone to the point where they were subjugated again. If all the little people groups in the Balkans had as much territory as they all claim, the Balkans would its own continent.
    If you have a better map of that period to back your opinion we are ready to discus it.

    About Bulgaria's or any other "little people groups in the Balkans" conquests, here is not the right place to show your "knowledge". Open a new thread in VV and feel free to educate us.

    I am not putting out work for the public, you are. I can criticize it then. Don't want it criticized-keep it to yourself.
    Just a note. sumskilz is not part of our team so he didn't actually putted out anything here for the public. There is no need to insult him

    And finally I suggest you to mind more carefully your tone if you want someone to hear your criticism, no matter are you right or wrong.
    Last edited by alien_t; August 09, 2009 at 08:40 AM.
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
    Check my Turnovo, custom settlement video preview or download it here
    Under the Honorable Patronage of B. Ward

    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  19. #59
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: MAP discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJones View Post
    What a stupid argument. Make your own. Blah Blah Blah. I am not putting out work for the public, you are. I can criticize it then. Don't want it criticized-keep it to yourself.
    My friend JimboJones if with the term "little" people you mean the slavic populations in the balkans and if you mean that the central balkan provinces should belong to Roman Empire (Byzantium) then you should read the stories about the bulgar/byzantine wars from Nikephorus Phokas to Basill II the bulgarslayer...
    The byzantine scholars and historians of that era described that war in the balkans was quite complicated...
    Cities (no matter their ethnic origin of the inhabitans)changed sides almost every year...
    For example if the city of Edessa west of Thessalonika was on the roman side it could be in the bulgarian side the next year...
    Those "moovements"had nothing to do with "etnic" reasons...
    The fact the the bulgarian leaders offered better taxes and semi indipentance for the cities rullers made the join on the bulgarian side very tamptenting....
    So if you see the map as a snapshot of a year between wars it can be quite accurate...
    Remember that Romans from their side saw the whole conflict as a civil war and not as a war between two states!!!
    That is why Basill II blind the last of the rebels (this was the punishment for rebels and not intruders)...
    In a civil war there are no accurate borders but cities which join one side or an other according to their interests!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  20. #60

    Default Re: MAP discussion

    JimboJones is absolutely correct that he has a right to express an opinion on any part of the mod - after all, this is the purpose of the forum.

    As a Bulgarian, I agree that the map of Bulgaria at the end of the reign of Tzar Simeon may be debatable, especially regarding many of its Northern and North-Western borders, as evidence indicates that a lot of territory was lost to the Magyars and other territory was given to the Pechenegs.

    I also agree that the war time border before the treaty of 927 AD cannot be used to indicate lands that were firmly incorporated into the Bulgarian state. However, I am sure JumboJones will have a hard time denying that during the Middle Ages, military presence was perhaps the single most important factor in the establishment of borders - in those days you could only claim ownership to what you could control.

    Finally, I believe the above map was put here to give an outline of the entire strategy map, and obviously Bulgaria will start with far fewer provinces. Since the mod is called Bulgaria Total War, it is natural to include the map of all lands which were at one time or another under Bulgarian control during the time frame of the mod, with the goal for the player to try to conquer them all, plus some extras, in order to satisfy victory conditions.

    Nothing bogus about that, unless you have forgotten to take your pills, JumboJones. You know - those green pills your psychiatrist prescribed you - you should start taking them again, and regularly.

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