Team Battle League (A new style tournament)

[emotion_name]

Welcome to the league of Team Battles!

Find an ally, fight the enemy, earn points to climb higher up the table!

Winner is the person on top at the end of the "season".

All factions are available, however there is a new ruleset being used and the factions are split into categories.

The categories are:-

Romans- Julii, Brutii, Scipii, S.P.Q.R
Hellenic- Greek City States, Macedon, Carthage, Thrace
Chariots- Egypt, Seleucid, Brittannia, Pontus
Barbarian- Gaul, Dacia, Germania, Spain
Eastern- Scythia, Armenia, Parthia, Numidia

Each team can only use one faction from a category, so if i pick a Hellenic faction my ally cant.

Factions are not fixed, so if you use Roman in one battle you dont have to stay with them for every game you play.

All battles are to be played on Grassy Flatlands.

Host chooses faction first, then both competitors on other team choose there faction, then hosts ally chooses there faction!

Battle rules are:-

No ele/art
Max 2 Elite Infantry
Max 2 Elite Cavalry
Max 4 Same unit card
Max 6 Cavalry
Max 6 Missile units
Max 2 Horse/Chariot archers
No using redline for defense/border camping

All mounted units that use missiles, Jav cav, horse archers etc, count towards total cavalry AND archer.

All foot units that use missiles, auxilia, Head Hurlers etc count towards max missile units. Pila throwing infantry is the only exception to this rule.

Dogs/pigs add to total cavalry.

Elite Infantry is:-

Urban Cohorts
Legionary First Cohorts
Legionary Cohorts
Praetorian Cohorts
Samnite Gladiators
Sacred Band Spearmen
Spartans
Royal Pikemen
Bezerkers
Headhurlers
Silver Shield Pikemen

Elite Cavalry is:-

All General Units
Praetorian Cavalry
Companion Cavalry
Sacred Band Cavalry
Cataphract Camels
Head Hunting Maidens

Each faction category has spending limits as follows:-

-Roman) 5000 inf, 5000 cav, 5000 arch
-Hellenic) 7500 inf, 5000 cav, 2500 arch
-Eastern) 8000 inf, 4000 cav, 3000 arch
-Chariots) 8000 inf, 4000 cav, 3000 arch
-Barbarian) 10000 inf, 6000 cav, 4000 arch

Barbarians have 20k to spend, to encourage people to use them. All other factions have 15k to spend.

Anybody who breaks rules will have there team removed from the tourney, and battle they broke rules in will be classed as a draw.

All teams are placed in a table, and points are awarded for battles won.

Heroic Victories earn your team 3 points
Clear Victories earn your team 2 points
Average Victories earn your team 1 point
Close Victories are classed as a draw, with neither team getting points.

Barbarian Factions earn 1 extra point for each scenario, so a heroic with a barbarian earns 4 points and so on. However close victories with a barbarian faction within a team still count as a draw with no points being awarded to either team.

Screenies have to posted for each battle. Even if both teams agree the outcome, no screenie-no points.

If a high number of teams join you will play each team once, if low number joins then a home/away system will be used and you play each team twice!

As soon as there is an appropriate number of teams, a fixtures list will be drawn up. Each battle will have a 3 day limit to be played, if one team doesnt show then the other team will get 1 point. If both teams dont show then battle is classed as a draw!

Each person can only enter within one team, all participants are welcome to post their timezones here asking for an ally.

[Cluny the Scourge]

Elite Infantry is:-

Urban Cohorts
Legionary First Cohorts
Legionary Cohorts
Praetorian Cohorts
Samnite Gladiators
Sacred Band Spearmen
Spartans
Royal Pikemen
Bezerkers
Headhurlers
Silver Shield Pikemen

What about Bronze Shield Pikemen?

What about the other two types of Gladiator?

Do Early Legionaries count as elites?

Headhurlers are both missile unit and elite infantry?

Elite Cavalry is:-

All General Units
Praetorian Cavalry
Companion Cavalry
Sacred Band Cavalry
Cataphract Camels
Head Hunting Maidens

Not Legionary Cavalry?
Not regular Cataphracts?

Screenies have to posted for each battle. Even if both teams agree the outcome, no screenie-no points.

Screenshots of what?

Anybody who breaks rules will have there team removed from the tourney, and battle they broke rules in will be classed as a draw.

What about when a battle collapses because of one player's failed connection?

Each faction category has spending limits as follows:-

-Roman) 5000 inf, 5000 cav, 5000 arch
-Hellenic) 7500 inf, 5000 cav, 2500 arch
-Eastern) 8000 inf, 4000 cav, 3000 arch
-Chariots) 8000 inf, 4000 cav, 3000 arch
-Barbarian) 10000 inf, 6000 cav, 4000 arch

Barbarians have 20k to spend, to encourage people to use them. All other factions have 15k to spend.

35k for each team - making 70k total on the battlefield - and with strong unit-restrictions encouraging all 4 players to have larger armies of non-elite troops - and with 4 player-connections to keep stable at the same time. There might be a lag-risk at work for some players. I know Reeve, for example, has serious problems playing with anything over Normal unit-size in a normal battle - with that soldiers on the field it might be worse. Just a suggestion - you might consider 10k/15k instead of 15k/20k - that's a total of 50k on the field instead of 70k, and might be more manageable for some.

[Made-in-the-uk]

-Hellenic) 7500 inf, 5000 cav, 2500 arch

how is a greek player going to spend 5000 on cav, 2500 on archers is a lot

i think 10k and 15k would be fairer but withe the same limts as they are atm because players wont be able to spent the full 15k

edit: me and reeve just tryed out the rules , me rome him germania, and we agree that a 5k bonus is way to much, he had 6 maxed out gothic cav and my 6 b/s praets never stood a chanc and my infantry was getting pwned by his g/g chosen axemen

maybe a 2k difference would be fairer

[General Nuisance esq]

My first impression is that the rules are going to be impossible to police and will cause extreme confusion and getting a close victory and counting it as a draw is strange as well as extra points for a heroic etc leaves it open to abuse

[emotion_name]

What about Bronze Shield Pikemen?

What about the other two types of Gladiator?

Do Early Legionaries count as elites?

Headhurlers are both missile unit and elite infantry?

Yes to all apart from Early Legionaries!

Screenshots of what?

Well what do you usually post screenies of? Battle results!

Not Legionary Cavalry?
Not regular Cataphracts?

Well i was trying to balance it out a bit, i mean Armenia an that are pretty cavalry reliant. See what other people want!

What about when a battle collapses because of one player's failed connection?

Then you do what most people do and rehost it!

Just a suggestion - you might consider 10k/15k instead of 15k/20k - that's a total of 50k on the field instead of 70k, and might be more manageable for some.

i think 10k and 15k would be fairer but withe the same limts as they are atm because players wont be able to spent the full 15k

edit: me and reeve just tryed out the rules , me rome him germania, and we agree that a 5k bonus is way to much, he had 6 maxed out gothic cav and my 6 b/s praets never stood a chanc and my infantry was getting pwned by his g/g chosen axemen

maybe a 2k difference would be fairer

Point taken! How do you propose splitting the money?

My first impression is that the rules are going to be impossible to police and will cause extreme confusion

Well everyone is pretty experienced, we all know how to see upgrades and tell units apart, so if you have any doubts you screenie it and total up what it costs. Or send it to me and i'll total it up.

Its like a gentlemens agreement, just to try and add some variety. Pretty soon ETW is gonna be out an most people will leave RTW behind, so this is like a last hurrah. I got a few ideas for tournies, obviously like this one i need some more opinions because they're not perfect, but along with P.O.M tournies and Cluny's team tourney and others should add some last few months of good, fun tourneys before we drop the sword in favour of the musket!

getting a close victory and counting it as a draw is strange as well as extra points for a heroic etc leaves it open to abuse

Explain, how do you mean its open to abuse?
I mean, you post the screenie of battle results, if it says heroic you get more points for a more convinving win. Think of it as like in rugby you get a bonus point for scoring 4 tries, in this you get an extra point for the more convincing win.
The no points for a close i was thinking of so that if you start off bad, then manage to turn it around and win, both players obviously played well so leave it as no points and then it encourages more tactics throughout the league.
I mean, imagine you are second by 2 points, with one battle of the season to go, it means you gotta go all out an chop down them runners, not just rout the army and take the win! In effect, your only one bad battle, where you lost when you should have won, can come back and bite you on the a**e, even towards the end of the tourney!

Well there is obviously alot to finalise before going ahead with this, but all your opinions are appreciated!

[Made-in-the-uk]

i personnally dont like the money limits

what about: -barbs get 12k
-everyone else get 10k

romans: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
Hellenics: max 10 infantry max 3 cavalry max 4 archers
Easterns: max 5 infantry max 6 cavalry max 6 archers
Chariots: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
barbs: no maximum infantry max 5 cavalry max 4 archerss

just a suggestion but i think insteat of a money limit this would be better

[Cluny the Scourge]

Then you do what most people do and rehost it!

Even if the team whose member's connection failed was clearly losing?

Perhaps it would be better if the defaulting team forfeited the match, unless the opposing team were willing to replay the battle?

Point taken! How do you propose splitting the money?

Don't split the money - the unit-restrictions by themselves already do an adequate job. Having both unit-restrictions AND money limits on unit-categories is over-regulation that will confuse people.

[Made-in-the-uk]

What about when a battle collapses because of one player's failed connection?

Then you do what most people do and rehost it!

that just means that when your losing you can alt-tab and restart the game, he who lags loses is fairer

All mounted units that use missiles, Jav cav, horse archers etc, count towards total cavalry AND archer

what jav cav counts as missile AND horses, now how do i use thrace???

Elite Infantry is:-

Urban Cohorts
Legionary First Cohorts
Legionary Cohorts
Praetorian Cohorts
Samnite Gladiators
Sacred Band Spearmen
Spartans
Royal Pikemen
Bezerkers
Headhurlers
Silver Shield Pikemen

what about armoured hops? their defence is one point off sacred band???

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Hmmm, I wonder where the categories came from

But anyway, it sounds like a pretty good tourney idea. However, I think some of the restrictions will still needed to be edited before it can be finalised, and the money needs to be cut down a bit.

-Roman) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Hellenic) 6000 inf, 2500 cav, 1500 arch
-Eastern) 5000 inf, 3500 cav, 1500 arch
-Chariots) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Barbarian) 6500 inf, 6000 cav, 2500 arch

That is a good numbering system I think, considering that Hellenics valued infantry over cavalry, Eastern valued cavalry far over infantry, that the Roman success was due more to great infantry with lesser cavalry, and barbarians being pretty all rounded.

Lastly, I think that normal Roman legionaries should not be considered as "elite" troops. They were the base troops for Romans after the reforms, and were never classed as an elite comparable with the Spartans, Urbans and Praetorians. Without legionary cohorts, the best staple infantry a Roman commander could field is the early type, along with hastati, principes and triarii, which would be somewhat inferior, IMO.

[Made-in-the-uk]

-Roman) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Hellenic) 6000 inf, 2500 cav, 1500 arch
-Eastern) 5000 inf, 3500 cav, 1500 arch
-Chariots) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Barbarian) 6500 inf, 6000 cav, 2500 arch

1500 is still alot for archers imo because of the max 4 same rule a faction witn one type of foot archer can get 4, 4 gg archers cost 1000 denarii, now i would like to spend that 500 denarii elsewhere rather than chevronning archers

i think the money limits should add up to about 15000 denarii with 10k to spend wich would mean for example if you only spent 1000 on archers you wouldn't have 500 denarii less to spend

[Xavier Dragnesi]

I was just proposing a way to split the money. Personally, I'd prefer no money restrictions either, but if emotion_name definitely wants money restrictions, I just thought that would be the best way to do it.

[emotion_name]

Hmmm, I wonder where the categories came from

LOL!!

I was just proposing a way to split the money. Personally, I'd prefer no money restrictions either, but if emotion_name definitely wants money restrictions, I just thought that would be the best way to do it.

Well, i dont definately want money restrictions, i just wanted to try and make people choose more varied armies than usual. Cluny's Knights of the Old Republic tourney is a lot of fun because you dont know what units are gonna be selected because of the pre Marian rules, something you dont come across often.

Obviously i couldnt apply that here because of other factions would own Romans if they were restricted to pre Marian!

that just means that when your losing you can alt-tab and restart the game, he who lags loses is fairer

Even if the team whose member's connection failed was clearly losing?

Perhaps it would be better if the defaulting team forfeited the match, unless the opposing team were willing to replay the battle?

Laggers are losers!
Yeah, unless other team wants to replay it!

Don't split the money - the unit-restrictions by themselves already do an adequate job. Having both unit-restrictions AND money limits on unit-categories is over-regulation that will confuse people.

I like confusion, its good, and my comfort zone!

Seriously, i see your point, maybe madeintheuk idea is better!

what about: -barbs get 12k
-everyone else get 10k

romans: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
Hellenics: max 10 infantry max 3 cavalry max 4 archers
Easterns: max 5 infantry max 6 cavalry max 6 archers
Chariots: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
barbs: no maximum infantry max 5 cavalry max 4 archerss

This eliminates the money restrictions, but still ties in with what Xavier said about Easterns using cavalry, Romans more infantry reliant etc.

I still wanted to find a way of making the armies varied, but is having "elite" restrictions more confusing, and pointless. I mean, i been coming up with little ideas for weeks so im sort of used to it, but then i like confusion so..

Great ideas guys, this is sounding better than when i first thought of it. It seems to be my problem that i get grand ideas but suck at implementing them, so all opinions are really valued!

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Hmmm, well in order to keep it not to complicated, yet still keep some variation, I think perhaps you should have either one or the other. So either you have monetary restrictions, and no elite unit restrictions, or you have elite unit restrictions, and no money restrictions. If you decide to do that, we could have a bit of a vote as to which people seem to prefer.

[General Nuisance esq]

Pretty soon ETW is gonna be out an most people will leave RTW behind, so this is like a last hurrah. I got a few ideas for tournies, obviously like this one i need some more opinions because they're not perfect, but along with P.O.M tournies and Cluny's team tourney and others should add some last few months of good, fun tourneys before we drop the sword in favour of the musket!

At the risk of getting my wrists slapped by PoM for going off topic, can't see RTW dying quite yet. Personally won't be giving up RTW for ETW as I don't like the ETW era at all and the system requirements will put a lot of people off, be a bit like MTW II I suspect with an initial surge of interest but then people will drift back, sure RTW is going through a slow death but the real killer will be a new and better Rome game

As for the tourney, gotta say with these rules won't be joining, simply too many rules for me its either 10k no rules or cwb, possibly with a rule saying you can only use each faction once

[Xavier Dragnesi]

I'm pretty sure that we won't be dropping the sword in favour of the musket anytime soon.

[emotion_name]

Well i cant start a thread just for a poll, especially considering when/if this starts i will have to open a thread for the table, fixtures, results, etc.

Maybe if you just posted here what your choice would be!

Me, im abstaining, im not bothered what set-up is used, unit or money restrictions, i just wanted a different type of tourney that people will join. Bit pointless if no-one likes the set-up!

So choices are

-Roman) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Hellenic) 6000 inf, 2500 cav, 1500 arch
-Eastern) 5000 inf, 3500 cav, 1500 arch
-Chariots) 5500 inf, 3000 cav, 1500 arch
-Barbarian) 6500 inf, 6000 cav, 2500 arch

(Thanks to Xavier for his idea!)

or

barbs get 12k
-everyone else get 10k

romans: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
Hellenics: max 10 infantry max 3 cavalry max 4 archers
Easterns: max 5 infantry max 6 cavalry max 6 archers
Chariots: max 8 infantry max 4 cavalry max 4 archers
barbs: no maximum infantry max 5 cavalry max 4 archers

(Thanks to madeintheuk for testing and proposing this idea!)

Like i said, just post here which set-up youd prefer, i just want a fun team tourney, with a slightly different set-up to whats currently been on offer.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Let's do it according to choice A or B. I go B, money restrictions aren't really my thing

[Made-in-the-uk]

Im going to surprise everone and vote for the rules I posted, johnny next time I see you on we should test out the rules and stuff

[GeneralChaos]

Hmm.. this sounds like it would be a lot of fun to test out.
I dunno if I'd be able to jump in the tournament because of time zone issues, but I like what you're going for with the armies.

[Dafuge]

I would also vote for Madeintheuk's rules. The money rules are too complicated for me.